Gay Men Dislike Me (and I Am A Straight Woman)
- Thread starter Artemisia
- Start date
I just think that you aren't very likable.
Do you realize you just asked about why "feminine" gay men treat you a certain way and then just told a gay person to essentially shut up because you want to hear an explanation from a straight person?
Getting along with one gay man who is "masculine" does not make you impartial towards homosexuals.
So grateful a straight person was here to explain it to her! I sort of tried, but she wasn't having a bar of it.
Edit, well, I admit that your approach added new insight
Just thought it might be worth mentioning that I know many heteros, way way more of them than anyone here might think, and that I support them and I like them and get along with them just fine. In fact, some of my best friends are heteros. I also have man hetero friends and woman hetero friends, all hetero sexuals and I have known heteros all my life. So if you're a hetero you don't have to be cautious around me, I like you just the way that you are! I'm your mate, straight. <3
Whether I liked your post or not is immaterial, and don’t presume. You lied when you said you specifically asked for heterosexuals to reply to your original post.
Please make the distinction between my judgment of your actions, which I did, and your person, which I did not.
Not any longer. So fair enough, if 8 out of 9 suits your standards, then I would ask again, who are the variables, and who is the constant? Apply Occam’s razor. Wisdom of the crowd.
There isn’t any mystery here. Your behavior in this thread provides ample evidence to explain your situation, I think.
Cheers,
Ian
- Mar 17, 2010
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If you were genuine in your attempts to find out why a certain group of people (in this case gay men) don't seem to like you, then you would be open to hearing from a person who identifies as part of that group. You are being disingenuous. You don't really want to know, you just want people to back up your stereotype or biases for certain groups. I see a pattern. I have seen you do this in other posts about other groups of people that you have stereotyped. You are either deluding yourself into thinking that you are authentic and really want to learn something, or you are just on here baiting people. I'm not sure which one it is. If you really do think that you are being authentic and open to learning then I would suggest that you have some soul-searching to do.
- Dec 29, 2009
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@Artemisia
First I will say, I am a straight white male aged 46. Personally ? To me that is just a label, essentially I am the same as every other human being on the planet.
I have read through this thread carefully and I think the following has happened;
1) You have been hurt and upset by the actions of some of you workplace colleagues - and you wanted advice on why they would do that to you.
2) Without wishing to be impolite to you, I think you have chosen your words poorly, in expressing that. I think it has caused hurt and upset to people (gay or straight) and this has caused some tension. I am not judging you for that, I choose my words poorly all the time. I'm probably doing it right now.
3) Honestly ? I really don't think the way your colleagues are behaving is remotely to do with their sexual orientation. They are not mistreating you 'because they are gay'. Have you never been mistreated by a straight person ?
I think the constructive thing to do, would be to try to see the individual people you are talking about as just that, individuals. Put aside any preconceptions you may have about them, and make a positive effort with each of them to build better rapport. You may be surprised at the results. Engage with them, say hello, ask how they are etc. Show some interest and compassion, and give things a chance to improve. It may feel awkward and difficult at first, but it may make things a lot better for you - and them.
Some years ago I worked with a gay lady. She was a bit older than me, very aggressive and domineering. She initially really gave me a hard time, interfering with the staff I managed, moaning about me behind my back to my boss, and being rude and obnoxious to me in front of others. It had nothing at all to do with her gender, sexuality, race, religion, etc. It was due to her personality. She was insecure and lonely, and I was fairly popular. I got it right away. Also we were of equal rank, and although I am a non-confrontational person I don't let anyone push me around. She grew increasingly angry when I ignored her 'commands'.
It continued like that for some time, until one day things came to a head. She sent me a nasty email - so I politely approached her. She had a total melt down, called me a lot of names (I did not respond to that) and she then stormed off to see my boss. My colleagues were stunned, all of them told me they supported me, a few of my staff were in tears. It was very stressful, but I patiently waited. She returned a few hours later and was silent.
It was never mentioned again, my boss never told me what she said to her, but over the next few weeks and months my aggressive colleague made very clear and obvious attempts to 'make peace'. I went along with it and never complained about what happened. I made similar efforts with her. We never became friends, or anything like it, but we had a workable peace. I would suggest you think carefully about how you want to approach things with your colleagues to avoid my mistake.
I had waited too long in addressing the conflict, so that when I did, it had reached a higher level than I'd realized. Just on the gossip? Try not to let that bother you. Intelligent, mature people aren't interested in rumor and gossip, especially when it is malicious. If they persist with that and it upsets you, tell the person doing it, how it makes you feel, ask them why they are doing it, and politely ask them to stop doing it.
Ok I've probably mangled the English language enough here, so I will stop. I hope you are not angry or upset at my post, that is not my intent and I hope it helps in some way. Lastly I think unintentionally you have upset some really nice people on here. I hope you are brave enough to acknowledge that and apologize. If you do ? I think you will win the respect of a lot of people who may not be very happy right now. I wish you all the best.
James
When I don't get along with people, I first look at how I am behaving towards them, consciously or subconciously and what messages I am sending. Usually, I find that with a minor adjustment within myself things improve considerably.
The older I get the more open minded I become.
Apparently misogyny in the gay community is a thing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thin...nity-needs-to-deal-with-its-misogyny-problem/
Before someone feels insulted and starts claiming that straight men can also be misogynists, that is besides the point of the OP. The fact is that I have witnessed this sort of behavior several times (the malicious gossip) to pay attention to patterns. And social scientists in my field are especially good at discerning patterns.
Before someone feels insulted and starts claiming that straight men can also be misogynists, that is besides the point of the OP. The fact is that I have witnessed this sort of behavior several times (the malicious gossip) to pay attention to patterns. And social scientists in my field are especially good at discerning patterns.
Femininity is also not the problem here. Being gay and feminine seems to be correlated with malicious gossip behavior, at least in my workplace and several other workplaces that have come to my attention. I rarely have a problem with other women and never had a problem with lesbians (whether butch or fem).
So now it's all gay men?
Here's how it looks from my end, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but I feel that you've once again pigeonholed yourself into a narrow point of view.
I'm not saying that this social phenomena doesn't exist, I'm saying that it exists in every social corner. You're trying to place the blame on a particular group of people (feminine gay men) when all kinds of people are guilty of this behavior. One article reaffirming a preconceived notion and a handful of celebrity quotes does not hold any weight.
Do you have any gay friends outside of work? Do you know anything about the culture from firsthand experience and not what you read in articles?
The reason I ask this is because your views would change drastically if you had experiences other than the negative ones you've been exposed to.
I was once immersed into superficial fashion and beauty culture. I was a stylist that did hair and makeup before going back to school to become a psych nurse and researcher. I have known many people who are gay, gender dysphoric, bisexual, transsexual, pansexual, alternative lifestyle gurus, you name it. My oldest friend is a feminine gay man, one of my best girlfriends transitioned from male to female.
My point in this is that I think you're forming an opinion about this group of people without having had any real experience with them, without trying to know them on a personal level, and without understanding a basic part of them in that they identify as feminine.
Some people gossip and get off on making others feel down. To put a label on feminine gay men as misogynists is a completely ignorant move. I could label you as a misandrist against feminine men in the same light. Do you see the folly in that?
I really would like to help you, and my advice to you is this, instead of sticking to your already formed opinion, why not provide yourself with an oportunity to learn and grow from it? Talk to a few of these gossiping coworkers, get to know them, learn a few things about them that you didn't hear from other gossips. Office politics are not fun, but there are much better ways to approach situations such as this. One of the best ways to combat something is to face it head on. Confront them in a heartfelt and tactful manner, explain your feelings, see what happens.
- Aug 21, 2015
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@Artemisia ... Um, is it the way you word what you say? (INFJs often fumble in conversation, as you've done in this thread, leading to everyone freaking out over your thread.)
Maybe they have MBTI types that INFJs don't mesh with, or maybe you have different lifestyle interests. Maybe they don't get your sense of humor.
Is it only gay men who react this way toward you?
INFJs aren't known for being the life of the party and favorites in the room in general. Some people just don't "get us". (As you know.)
It could be coincidence that they're gay.
Maybe they have MBTI types that INFJs don't mesh with, or maybe you have different lifestyle interests. Maybe they don't get your sense of humor.
Is it only gay men who react this way toward you?
INFJs aren't known for being the life of the party and favorites in the room in general. Some people just don't "get us". (As you know.)
It could be coincidence that they're gay.
Like, what is your deal that you need to point a finger at "those gays over there who like to gossip"? Seriously, let it go. You don't have to like your coworkers, and they don't have to like you. Do your job, be pleasant, keep your nose clean as they used to say, and just mind your own business. Stop being concerned with other people. Even if they're talking about you, pretend they aren't and just do you.