Gay Men Dislike Me (and I Am A Straight Woman)

It has been my observation, as the 56 year old brother of a gay man, that by and large gay men are excellent judges of character.

 

Judging by the tone of your post, it may shock you to learn that I'm an INFJ who came out to his parents as gay at age 15. (I'm not sure whether you realise that gay people can be INFJ. Are you even aware that there are people on this forum who do not identify as straight?)

I encourage you to imagine that you are a gay man who is noncompliant with gendered behavioural expectations. Then read your post here and try to imagine how you would feel about it and the person who wrote it. You might start by considering whether there is a problem with your approach to judging gay men who inadequately display masculinity as an homogeneous mass ie. "gays". It reminds me a bit of when you described transgender people as "trannies", which displayed a remarkable insensitivity to this forum in particular, and to political discussion more generally.

I am in a little disbelief here that you are capable of seeing through people. Your apprehension of people at a surface level does not seem very discriminating.

 

No, you did not.

In any event, in considering this, who are the variables and who is the constant?

Then apply Occam’s razor.


Well-Wishes,
Ian

 

Forgive me for pointing it out, but there's no specification in your OP that you are interested in hearing the opinions of straight INFJs only.

However, aside from your apparent unawareness of your own words, your deliberate unwillingness to hear what alternative voices have to say is something you might consider in your inquiry into why certain other people may have trouble warming to you.

 

Well, so far in this thread alone you have lied, been judgmental, presumed to know the state of someone’s mind without having asked them, and been condescending.

Given that, I can’t imagine what spending an entire workday with you would be like.

Again, apply Occam’s razor. Also, 8 isn’t a large n-sample, but you might want to consider the wisdom of the crowd.

 

I still can't figure out how that was implied (or what the "no gays thanks" rule is about exactly). But anyway I'm really at a complete loss as to how to persist in discussion with you, since you have now clarified that you refuse to hear anything I have to say for reasons to do with my experiences of sexuality. So, I hope that you will find a resolution to your questions that will satisfy you. All the best.

 

I did not read anything that implied this. What I did find implied was that your INFJ personality values authenticity and as such sees a feminine gay man as inauthentic, proved by your mention of the married man who acts masculine with whom you get along with just fine.
What I'm implying here is that perhaps the problem does not lie with them. Perhaps you see their femininity as a farce instead of part of who they authentically are. It's not an 'act'. Men and women are feminine and masculine alike regardless of orientation, straight and gay and everything in between.

 

My point is that it's not an act. They're not acting feminine, they are feminine as an authentic part of their personality. Regardless if you find them authentic or not, a little acceptance of different personalities goes a long way. Have you tried getting to know any of these men?
As for the other women in the workplace... well that's a whole other issue to tackle. Are these women also 'feminine'? Depending on personalities, female brains can be quite catty and highly judgemental when in a group, especially if they are on the superficial side. Few will step outside the circle to see things at face value instead of going along with the 'popular' opinion.

 

invisible is a rather intelligent human being, I am sure he did not have any trouble reading your post. Everyone is free to reply to threads here, and you can't bar them from doing so just because their responses don't reflect what you possibly wanted or expected to hear.

The fact that you seem to be referring to gay people as "the gays" implies that you are failing to realize that these people are individuals, and act as individuals, whether they are straight, gay, bisexual, asexual, pansexual, etc. You already have a rather limited, miniscule stereotype in your head about a giant group of people, whether they are "feminine" or otherwise. This is blinding you from seeing anything beyond that.

And no, my experiences with "gays," including my brother, do not even remotely mirror anything you claim to have experienced. Personally, I wouldn't consider one random person like you important enough to warrant all that gossip, anyway.

 

Artemisia, if you are interested in learning more about social research, you could check out Bryman's "Social Research Methods". I only know about it from my postgraduate class on research methodologies, but I got a high distinction on the unit of work. It's a highly readable and comprehensive introduction to social research.

 

If someone is feminine, they are authentic because they aren't just acting feminine, they are feminine. Why is it not authentic to you when a man is feminine? Would you call a woman not authentic if she were traditionally masculine?

It seems like you don't have much understanding of experiences outside your own, so is it just that you feel threatened by people who are different from you, or who don't fit what you think a person should be? Please, it could benefit you to try to open your mind just a tiny bit and try to see people, as I mentioned, as individuals. Perhaps you could even try talking to these people individually in order to get to know them better, instead of asking people who have never met them what their experiences with people you've never met were like, and trying to use their experiences with unique people as a basis for your experiences with unique people.

 

Damn Artemisia is getting butt-pummeled by a bunch of gay people in this thread.

It's hard to say what is going on, sometimes people just don't like you. It's almost always the interpretation or assumption about who you are. I think if they really got to know you they would like you.

Also sometimes people have a natural instinct to group others and create an enemy group instead of enemy individuals. It's a very primitive human tendency which is tied to our genetics. So just be careful that you are actually noticing who likes you and who doesn't. Instead of being in a situation where 3 of the 9 gay guys have real problems with you, but you feel threatened so you create an enemy group in your head and convince yourself that all 9 dislike you. Just because they have personality traits in common and/or don't communicate with you on a regular basis. Then you start to treat all 9 like they are your enemies and get caught in a negative feedback loop and increase the chances of them actually becoming people who dislike you.

So yeah, just be careful that you aren't creating an enemy group. Don't think they all gossip about you just because 1 or 2 do it. If you do that, then sadly you are letting those 1 or 2 lame ass haters win.

 

*lifts thread carpets and peers into thread cupboards in attempts to discover a bunch of gay people*

 

I found the bunch of gay people! They were getting "butt pummelled" by Artemisia.

 

I thought I'd be stuck in there forever.