Finding out how to forgive. | INFJ Forum

Finding out how to forgive.

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Sriracha

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Jul 14, 2011
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With all the recent issues that have come up in my life regarding being WRONGED within my oldest son's extracurricular activities (and husband) by 4 adults in particular, I am having a lot of trouble figuring out how to forgive and move on. More problems are surfacing now. I am indirectly affected on an administrative level, but directly affected on personal level because it involves my younger son's group. I am not asking what to do, as I have already decided that once my youngest son finishes this term (which is next Monday) ... we will be joining a new group so I can get away from people who are abusing their power. I will not go into details because that is not what this thread is about.

The positive aspect of what happened, is that it gave me the desire to be closer to God and to find him within myself again. I am thankful for that.

Everyone has their own definition of forgiveness. I have found that I don't forgive as much as I run away ... far far away when there is no resolve, but the problem is being able to let the incident go within myself. I can change my external surroundings, but it doesn't change what is going on inside. Please note that I don't think forgiveness is a grey area. Forgiveness is not about placing conditions. To me it is very black and white, you either forgive or you don't. As much as I sometimes loathe bringing in the MBTI element into the picture, now is a perfect time to do so. ISFJ: I believe in justice. I hold myself to high ethical standards ESPECIALLY when it involves children. These 4 people went against everything that I know as a human being. Here is where you can throw MBTI out of the picture: I have the desire to forgive what happened and those people in particular, but how? In my thought process I can only find forgiveness when the WRONG has been corrected. I know this is not always possible, but I want to rid myself of the negative aftermath. It's not deserving of my attention or energy.

When you find yourselves in this type of predicament, how do you forgive? What do you do?
 
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Sriracha said:
When you find yourselves in this type of predicament, how do you forgive? What do you do?
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Hey! Sorry you went through all that -- a little rushed here, but I'm a firm believer in the "Living Well is the Best Revenge" school of forgiveness. We've probably all been there, but the way I personally handle it is I focus so hard on what is important to me, NOT the douchebags of the world, they're simply not important -- I try to throw all my energy & focus into what IS important, that there is simply none left over for the d-bags. They become irrelevant. That is not quite the same thing as a truly Christian style of forgiveness (I don't love them particularly, I just forget about them because I'm too busy focusing on goals, people that are important to me, and similar things, to think about them much.) Kids are good at this, and if you remember that being angry and embittered is not helping your kids or your end goal, that helps you flip a switch and kind of say "Oh, yeah -- I forgot, THIS is what I am supposed to be doing."

It is also good to remember that those people are not like every single group you will encounter. Sometimes when you've had a bad experience you (well, I....) tend to think everyone is like that. They're not. There are some really awesome people in the world. Probably a lot of other people are in agreement with you about that group's behavior, you just have to find those people.

This was a bit garbled but I hope it helps. (((hugs)))
 
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Have you opened the Book? Seeking God, in my humble opinion, is going in the right direction. Back to the subject...............................................I distance myself from where the problem came from, too; sometimes, forever if at all possible. I can forgive someone for what they have done, but do not plan to let it continue. It takes time to heal. Sometimes forgiveness for one's actions help the healing process. Do not forget to ask forgiveness for yourself. Don't feel the need? Do it anyway..........................................................There was a certain man that was asked by his Father to take care of his Father's daughter should something happen to him. He was told three times in details how important it was to him. After the death of this man's Father, this man went to visit and comfort his Stepmother three days after they had buried his Dad. He was handed a document and was asked to sign all his rights to his Father's will over to her........................................................................................................................."For this reason shall a man and a woman become as one," the man thought. "How could anyone ask such a thing, even this close to his Father's death?" he reasoned. "Surely she does not even care about her husband's wishes," he concluded. While signing the document, he thought while signing, "I am signing this woman out of my life forever." Years passed and he forgave her, but he kept his word....................................................Tell me, what is forgiveness but living with something without it bothering you any longer? It is unhealthy to harbor grudges and hate; misunderstanding and wrongdoing. If an ant bites me, I'm not going to stand in the ant bed and let them continue. If someone screams at me and I stay with them, I must love them above all things. When we love someone, we overlook their frailties and their faults; their misguided shortcomings and lashing out against us. We put up with things that can be very unhealthy to our own self. Can we not love someone from a distance and try to keep ourselves healthier? Do we love them enough to slowly die for them? Do we love them enough to let our spirit be constantly torn and battered? Can we allow this to get out of hand? Should we say something to try and help them? Is not their reply, "Don't try to fix me, I'm not broken"?..............................................................................................................................................................Forgiveness by a human being can take time. There was a man once that taught love. "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." Seek guidance from the Man that is love. I know that cannot lead you into darkness. Mrs. Sriracha needs a cuddly dog to hug and love.
 
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Personally it is usually a matter of time for me. Once I have wallowed in the emotions I am having I reach a point of absolute tolerance; (see the effing semicolon!) Emotions like pain, anger, hurt, confusion. I just get TIRED of feeling these things and I begin to be able to put them away and examine things logically. It isn't like I have the emotions blaring inside for an extended period of time, once the initial precursor activity has passed, it is more like a toothache. You know its there and sometimes you swipe your tongue over it to test how bad it hurts.

I don't require any type of "closure" with the other person. It is nice though. Normally, I don't allow people to know when they hurt me anyway, otherwise I am pretty good at wading through regular conflict with little or no problems if things get ugly. For me, it comes down to a choice. I have to decide that the person(s) in question intentionally did things to cause me pain because they are totally evil and ugly. Or, I have to decide that the they are human beings and prone to making mistakes and their actions, while causing hurt, weren't a deliberate attempt to harm me out of malicious spite but rather a unfortunate expression of their human condition. I think that is where people get stuck with forgiveness....they don't want to make that choice. I think we get stuck wanting to think that people should "know" us and they should be the ones doing all the "work" when it comes to forgiveness. I believe my emotions are my own and it is my job to wade through the crap and find the path again.
 
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I forgive for my own sake and then I usually just walk away if the conflict is not resolved (after I talked it out with them). No point in keeping dysfunctional people in my life or someone who isn't willing to put in equal effort.

I can usually detach from any emotion I feel after awhile and then figure out/analyze what the next step is. I really don't know HOW to forgive because I do not forget what someone has done to me. It's usually like, 3 strikes and you're out kinda deal. Unless you royally strike out and I punt you in the ass.

After I'm done with someone, I'm pretty much done for life and I move on. No point dwelling on the past.
 
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Yet there it is. Bright as the rising sun at your back.
 
I meditate and imagine malice falling out of me like water. I get my breathing right and I can literally feel it fall out of me into the ground and I feel about fifty pounds lighter.

I still have to deal with people in a wise manner, knowing what they've done and what they are prone to do, but I can stop hating or being angry at them.
 
Well, forgiveness is a simple thing. If you try to complicate it with reason in any way, you probably wont be able to find it genuinely.

That is because it is not rational in many cases to forgive. So I think you need to move away from a reason-based approach if you want to find out how to forgive. I can't give you any reasons to forgive people specifically or provide a rationale for pursuing it. The best I can say is that harboring resentment will weigh you down, so it is best to just let it go.
 
I used to only believe that I could forgive once I punished the wrong doer to the extent that I thought was appropriate for how I felt about their actions. I had to learn true forgiveness and it only came after I had enough time to process the situation I was in and I could only go through that process by creating some distance from it. Not so much to run away from it, but so that I could have a clearer, more objective perspective. When I was able to understand the other individual and why they did what they did I could not hold it against them anymore even if they caused me pain. I was ready to let it go. The incident had already occurred, I had already lived through it, I ended it by moving forward, and then I let it go.
 
“If you can cultivate the right attitude, your enemies are your best spiritual teachers because their presence provides you with the opportunity to enhance and develop tolerance, patience and understanding.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

Personally, I'm still learning this one... I think I'm being an intentionally stubborn student with this lesson though :)
 
I know I'm getting past it when I develop the attitude that the universe knows what happened. When I know I tried, and he/she/it saw what happened ... he/she/it will handle it. It was and still is a very challenging situation, b/c we are still around this person. The reward is seeing how my son has blossomed. Those who tried to hold him hostage b/c they felt he was not ready would see that he is very capable. Perhaps they would question their own selves and so something about their boring/stifling program before they lose more boys.

Part of this is helping my husband get through it. He is reminded of it on a constant basis and he handles things differently than myself. He often asks me how I get through it. I tell him, I handle it the same way you do except that I'm not vocal about it. I tend to internalize it, chew it up, understand it, learn from it the best I can. Whereas he has to tell me every single thought out loud.
 
[video=youtube;13mUFEXnB54]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1C4A1C9564389B71&v=13mUFEXnB54&featur e=player_detailpage[/video]
 
The saga perpetuates. I swear Mr. Sriracha is going to end up having a heart attack. I have learned to become disconnected to all of it, which is part of my process. Mr. Sriracha unfortunately isn't in this place yet. This woman is a pebble in his shoe, a constant reminder ... until next summer when we plan to move away. She is first bona fide c*nt I have met.
 
Only one day later. She refuses to give us a pro-rated refund on my son's dues. She said it was a committee decision to withhold refunds if a boy drops out, but I've found out that decision never passed. So she's lying. Told her I want a copy of the meeting minutes where that decision was agreed. If it is not in writing it does not exist. She can make this easy, or make it hard. I can play hardball, especially when I have nothing to lose. She stays because most of the committee wants her there, it is the other parents who are aware of her inaccuracies (b/c the committee has shunned us out.) She also stays because the church doesn't have a legitimate liaison to help work through these problems.

This is why it is hard to forgive this person. I've put a call into District now. What she does to me and my family ... she will do to another.
 
Sriracha said:
Only one day later. She refuses to give us a pro-rated refund on my son's dues. She said it was a committee decision to withhold refunds if a boy drops out, but I've found out that decision never passed. So she's lying. Told her I want a copy of the meeting minutes where that decision was agreed. If it is not in writing it does not exist. She can make this easy, or make it hard. I can play hardball, especially when I have nothing to lose. She stays because most of the committee wants her there, it is the other parents who are aware of her inaccuracies (b/c the committee has shunned us out.) She also stays because the church doesn't have a legitimate liaison to help work through these problems.

This is why it is hard to forgive this person. I've put a call into District now. What she does to me and my family ... she will do to another.
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In a case like that, do what you must because you need to, and when done, release it.

There's a time to protect things and to be forceful, and as long as you aren't hurting others and yourself with spite, there will be time to forgive once the situation has been handled.
 
Sriracha said:
Only one day later. She refuses to give us a pro-rated refund on my son's dues. She said it was a committee decision to withhold refunds if a boy drops out, but I've found out that decision never passed. So she's lying. Told her I want a copy of the meeting minutes where that decision was agreed. If it is not in writing it does not exist. She can make this easy, or make it hard. I can play hardball, especially when I have nothing to lose. She stays because most of the committee wants her there, it is the other parents who are aware of her inaccuracies (b/c the committee has shunned us out.) She also stays because the church doesn't have a legitimate liaison to help work through these problems.

This is why it is hard to forgive this person. I've put a call into District now. What she does to me and my family ... she will do to another.
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Make your actions based upon the fact it is the right thing to do....not because you're still pissed at her. This is your task. This is your lesson to learn.

You are almost there when you stated she will do this to others.... Taking the necessary steps to expose her machinations will protect others. This is the right thing to do...but only if you can do it from a place of love and concern for others. This perspective strengthens your heart and your spirit and it will ripple outward into your family.

One thing that has helped me over the years was something I heard a dharma teacher once say. He talked about how in our lives we will encounter suffering of one kind or another. He went on to say that even the Buddhist monks and Rinpoches get betrayed. It gave me comfort in knowing each of us are human and shit happens.

Another thought I had is this: She is playing the bully role - the power role as it were....and you (and your husband) are playing the victim roles. She can't be the bully if she doesn't have a victim. Think on that for a while. In what ways are you demonstrating that you are the victim? What is your part in this? I'm not in any way suggesting you are wrong in feeling the way you do. No not all. I'd be pissed and wanting to take that bitch down. Yet... I'd still need to sit down and see how I'm playing my part in it. When I do this - it helps me to let it go.

Keep in mind that she can sense your intense feelings whenever she is around you. Same goes for your husband. Just like an animal can smell anger/fear - she can too.

As for forgiveness - Heartless gave a good response. Time. Give your self time. This situation is horrible and tantamount to complete betrayal from your fellow man. It's damn sad to see.

Oh....and like [MENTION=3799]bionic[/MENTION] says... You don't have to forget in order to forgive. A very good friend of mine told me once: Once you identify someone as a Scorpion - then you know they will always sting you - because it's their nature.

Finally - I will suggest you try to remember that we cannot ever know the grand plan....that is...until we leave these physical bodies and go on to the next phase of our journey. Right?

Focus on loving you. Tell your husband to quit thinking of the wrongs done to him(and your son) and focus on the love for his family. His boys need him for that. You need him for that.

Love is the only answer and we must continuously go back to it again and again.

I'm sorry this happened to you.... :hug:
 
Sriracha said:
Only one day later. She refuses to give us a pro-rated refund on my son's dues. She said it was a committee decision to withhold refunds if a boy drops out, but I've found out that decision never passed. So she's lying. Told her I want a copy of the meeting minutes where that decision was agreed. If it is not in writing it does not exist. She can make this easy, or make it hard. I can play hardball, especially when I have nothing to lose. She stays because most of the committee wants her there, it is the other parents who are aware of her inaccuracies (b/c the committee has shunned us out.) She also stays because the church doesn't have a legitimate liaison to help work through these problems.

This is why it is hard to forgive this person. I've put a call into District now. What she does to me and my family ... she will do to another.
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That bolded part is actually really important, and I'm glad to hear you are taking steps to at least make others aware of the issue. Best of luck. Also, sounds like Mr. S could use a nice cold beer and a back rub.

So sorry you are having to deal with a flaming you-know-what, but one sure thing about bullies like her, they will continue to bully until they are pushed back.
 
I never received a call back from District, which is fine. I have plenty of time. What I did do is send this woman an email bc she never answered my text. At the same time I CC'd some very important people ... people whom I know are part of this committee, the church pastor and District. One thing that I have always understood how to do is to use tact, state facts (not emotion), etc when writing something when taking care of "business." I see a written document as grounds for legal action. Though I would never go that far ... business is business. As much as I'm angered by the situation, I know when to disassociate myself and handle it. I think this was why I always have done very well in working in a field around other people. I desire to remain objective, and that desire includes knowing if I have done wrong (then owning up to my faults.)

I received two very encouraging responses, one from a friend (who is a committee member) who wanted more information and the other from the pastor. I exposed this woman, it's up to the pack to decide what to do. Mr.S was very pleased and felt at peace last night. We shall see how the saga continues. :)

[MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION] You comment made me chuckle. Last night Mr.S pointed out to me all the emails this woman forwarded to him about a year ago, to which he was not privy but it was about him. It was basically her gossiping. He said he'd love to forward all those emails to the original sender to let them know how good of a "friend" she is. I told him as much as he would love to seek revenge, we will continue to pursue this like adults. No whispering or gossiping, we're above that. How we behave right now is the real reflection on our character. It's funny, you would think an ISTJ would be able to articulate the disassociation!! This is where we come a team ... and like I told him last night "this is the fruit of a 15 year marriage."

I see the positives that have risen from this whole problem. The positives continue to grow. I do find it positive when God weeds my friendship garden ... this whole ordeal is what brought me closer to him. I've been watching Mr.S open up his heart spiritually ... and seriously, I never thought in a million years he would agree to get a dog too. lol

You guys are absolutely right in saying that forgiveness comes with the knowledge of accepting a person for who they are, and also knowing how to handle them in the future.
 
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Resolve will be within the next week. I wrote another email last evening: to the Pastor (who has power over this woman), and I CC'd the woman. I let him know that I had not heard anything from her so either I am being ignored or my email has gone in her junk folder. I asked him to call her (provided her number), talk to her about the situation and HE decide what is the outcome. What ever he decides I would fully accept the answer and move on. I added that if she said he used all his dues I would like an itemization on where the money was spent since we are only 4 months into a full year (her 1st excuse) or again a copy of the meeting minutes where the withholding of the refund was agreed on at the committee level (her second excuse.)

I immediately was called by another person, whom obviously this email was forwarded to by the woman. He wanted to pay me out of his own pocket bc he is tired of the "feud." I told him I didn't want his money, we can afford to lose it. It's the premise behind it, and things need to be settled the "right way", which is to be refunded by the organization. He said he would take care of it this week, just don't poke the hornet's nest more. lol The disruption to her life is not our problem if things were handled appropriately to begin with. I told him that we don't care about the past in this instance. We're purely "business" minded right now.

Regardless, us getting the refund and moving on is only the beginning for them. We want that organization to be successful, but it can't when this woman has gone rogue and everyone is afraid to deal with it b/c she has proven she's not afraid to "fire" someone from their position based on her personal feelings. Another committee member took some very useful notes from us about what needs to be changed and intends on having the pastor attend the next leader meeting. If the current organization addresses these issues, then I feel we are leaving it better than we found it. If they don't, it's not our problem. Either way, I feel I can let go.

Unfortunately, she will always be in the background ... b/c her older son is involved in the same group as my older son. I don't think that will hinder me from moving on, b/c that organization is very "rule abiding". This is a necessity to make it fair and just for everyone involved. I'm such a sensor. lol

Happy dance!
 
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