Fe Traps.

[AUM]

Yupperoni! He's an odd puppy. But I've looked into both MBTI and the Jungian functions, read profiles, and used my intuition. Definitely INTP. Oh and I had him take the test

I wonder what kind of agenda an INTP could have? Saving the world from horrible grammar?

 

[VH]

You guys have just made me realize that someone I thought was an ENFP (she self assessed as such) is actually an ENTP (most likely because she elevated her own F estimation) because she has a strong Ne + Fe loop going.

Thanks!

 

[melatonin]

I wonder what kind of agenda an INTP could have? Saving the world from horrible grammar?

Oh, his agenda is quite clear to me now... I can't bear to think of it as sinister even if my other friends silently reprimand him for manipulating me.

I just think he's unhealthy, unbalanced. Perhaps looping Ti/Si, but it's beyond that at the same time. My theory is that he is attempting to rid himself of his Fe o.o

...Though I do admit, that boy is an absolute grammar nazi.

 

[grapefruit]

How has he tried to manipulate you? Maybe you should try talking to him about it because he may not even realize what he is doing.

 

[grt$5vb]

I do not fear INTJs... I fear INFJ capabilities far more. We can be downright nasty, and justify it all day long. Plus, we actually derive enjoyment out of stepping aside & watching people hang themselves, and getting their just desserts. Probably not specific to type, however.

 

[David54]

I think what I fear more is the door slamming, deep freeze we are so capable of doing to others. .

 

[Trifoilum]

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION] : From my perspective, that too, is a flavor of Fe traps. What is lacking in terms of vicious and directness compared to Billy's, it's made up in delicious layers.

I do not fear INTJs... I fear INFJ capabilities far more. We can be downright nasty, and justify it all day long. Plus, we actually derive enjoyment out of stepping aside & watching people hang themselves, and getting their just desserts. Probably not specific to type, however.

Personally speaking, INTJs are just another flavor, which are, at times, even worse.
INFJs find justifications,
INTJs find reasons.

Whereas INFJs in their bad moods have millions of justifications about why their actions are the righteous ones, INTJs can and will tell you millions of reasons about why this is wrong and their action are completely right and necessary.

About INTPs and their agendas, I know several people, actually. They just masked it well under masks of neutrality. Kind of like, "so I'm trying to be neutral and cerebral, but surely we can do this right and go here, right?"

 

[grt$5vb]

But, INTJs are loathe to commit actions outside their moral code, whereas INFJ will justify going aginst their beliefs.

 

[grapefruit]

I think INTJs would enjoy it as much, if not more than we would. In some respects, their capabilities exceed those of INFJs because when you make them mad, you are causing them to become emotionally connected to a situation, and from what I can understand, they aren't so used to that. Therefore, they may not know how to react to their anger, and can use logic to determine what bothers you. However, INFJs frequently feel overwhelming emotions, so they have little choice but to learn to deal with them. Furthermore, INFJs are effected by others' emotions, and again, it's hard to tell, but I don't think INTJs really are. The attributes of both personality types can be strengths or downfalls, but it's just something to consider.

 

[Liesl]

I don't know if that's necessarily a Fe thing, but it sounds like it. From my personal observations, Fi-types would be pretty equipped to do this too, but they generally tend to be much more aggressive when pushing their social agendas. Fe-types, on the other hand, prefer to adapt to their audience for diplomatic results... catching more flies with honey than vinegar, so to speak.

True story!

 

[Nixie]

I think INTJs would enjoy it as much, if not more than we would. In some respects, their capabilities exceed those of INFJs because when you make them mad, you are causing them to become emotionally connected to a situation, and from what I can understand, they aren't so used to that. Therefore, they may not know how to react to their anger, and can use logic to determine what bothers you. However, INFJs frequently feel overwhelming emotions, so they have little choice but to learn to deal with them. Furthermore, INFJs are effected by others' emotions, and again, it's hard to tell, but I don't think INTJs really are. The attributes of both personality types can be strengths or downfalls, but it's just something to consider.

LOL Yea right. Ask @InvisibleJim or @technics if this is what is going on. I rather doubt it. I picked these two because they are much more of a reserved INTJ than say myself or @Reon

I daresay, as a whole, INTJS are not into emotional reactions at all but that doesn't mean we don't FEEL emotions. We just aren't the type of people to go dancing around announcing what we are feeling like an INFJ is. If anything, unless terrible stunted, I would say INTJs are masters at handeling their emotions. It just seems odd to you INFJs that we aren't terribly keen on SHARING them with anybody.

We could go into the argument that INFJs just flavor their understanding with emotion even if there isn't a great deal there--or you could counter that the INTJs just don't want to realize that emotion is there or we could decide it is somewhere in the middle ground.

 

[grapefruit]

But, INTJs are loathe to commit actions outside their moral code, whereas INFJ will justify going against their beliefs.

Anyone could go against their beliefs, but it seems that Infjs would be less likely to do so because their's are well defined. Due to emotional detachment, the Intj could cause more emotional damage than the Infj with less regret because they may not fully comprehend what they are doing.

 

[Liesl]

Have any of you noticed this?

I personally noticed that Fe users* (or those with enough knowledge of Fe-related subjects, such as social norms, values, and morals) have an uncanny ability to lay...certain traps. Conscious or not. Oh, totally emotional blackmailing, but it's different. It's not...defensive. Nor is it passive aggressive. Most emotional blackmailing is like, 'do this to me and WATCH ME SUFFER, so follow me, dammit.' This isn't. It's subtle, it's gentle and it's...aggressive. Using the social norms, morals, etiquette, propriety and standings, they lay thin webs, one web after another. It's not about 'hurting them', but it's about being immoral.

The masters subtly layered actions after actions, statements after statements, implications layering, to create an almost invisible link of something, for the lack of word, best described as 'proper' and 'moral'. Cross the layer and it'll be rude, immoral, and improper. Sometimes it can become simply awkward. Or making the speaker's words ineffective, for rudeness sometimes dispels the content.

Any comments? Am I just imagining things? Or am I wrong in attributing this to Fe?

*Myself included.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "laying traps." I've noticed with some FJs, particularly type 2 FJs, they zone in on people's emotional vulnerabilities and use those vulnerabilities to manipulate them. Is that what we're talking about?

 

[grapefruit]

LOL Yea right. Ask @InvisibleJim or @technics if this is what is going on. I rather doubt it. I picked these two because they are much more of a reserved INTJ than say myself or @Reon

I daresay, as a whole, INTJS are not into emotional reactions at all but that doesn't mean we don't FEEL emotions. We just aren't the type of people to go dancing around announcing what we are feeling like an INFJ is. If anything, unless terrible stunted, I would say INTJs are masters at handeling their emotions. It just seems odd to you INFJs that we aren't terribly keen on SHARING them with anybody.

We could go into the argument that INFJs just flavor their understanding with emotion even if there isn't a great deal there--or you could counter that the INTJs just don't want to realize that emotion is there or we could decide it is somewhere in the middle ground.

It isn't odd that they don't want to share them. It's just difficult for me at least to comprehend how they control them so well, lucky people. I'm 99% sure that one person I know is an Intj, and about 80% sure of another. From my experiences with these people, annoyance seems to be the only emotion Intjs are sometimes willing to show.

 

[Nixie]

It isn't odd that they don't want to share them. It's just difficult for me at least to comprehend how they control them so well, lucky people. I'm 99% sure that one person I know is an Intj, and about 80% sure of another. From my experiences with these people, annoyance seems to be the only emotion Intjs are sometimes willing to show.

It is used to keep others at bay....an effective strategy, especially with Feelers....

 

[melatonin]

How has he tried to manipulate you? Maybe you should try talking to him about it because he may not even realize what he is doing.

I have a feeling that he is fully aware. I know that he's insecure though... and there I go justifying things. This was a year ago, and we're on better terms now. I am just more cautious around him now. And see below:

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION] : About INTPs and their agendas, I know several people, actually. They just masked it well under masks of neutrality. Kind of like, "so I'm trying to be neutral and cerebral, but surely we can do this right and go here, right?"

sometimes, he's the most neutral person I know, even moreso than my INTJ friend who usually takes the cake.

In regards to the trapping, I've seen everyone practice manipulation in their own way, myself included.

Specific types don't scare me; the human capacity for acting as such does.

 

[grapefruit]

It is used to keep others at bay....an effective strategy, especially with Feelers....

What do you mean? At bay from doing what?

 

[Nixie]

What do you mean? At bay from doing what?

If I act annoyed you leave me alone. I probably should add the rejoinder that I use it to keep other people at bay--it is only my subjective opinion that other INTJs use it for the same reason.

 

[grt$5vb]

Anyone could go against their beliefs, but it seems that Infjs would be less likely to do so because their's are well defined. Due to emotional detachment, the Intj could cause more emotional damage than the Infj with less regret because they may not fully comprehend what they are doing.

INFJs are constantly adapting their beliefs, and evolving as they go through new experiences, and take in new information. Sometimes, when unhealthy, our beliefs are fuzzy at best.

I think it is incorrect to assume that INTJs beliefs are less defined. I do not find this to be the case. If anything, they are less yielding than INFJs, as we ammend our belief systems, due to changing feelings, and empathy. INTJs just know what they know. They also don't assume to know what they don't know.

 

[grapefruit]

If I act annoyed you leave me alone. I probably should add the rejoinder that I use it to keep other people at bay--it is only my subjective opinion that other INTJs use it for the same reason.

You could just tell people to leave you alone rather than acting annoyed.