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Evil

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Faye, Sep 11, 2009.

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  1. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I realized today that there is really nothing that makes humans today any better than the humans of the past. We're still just as gullible and prone to fallacious thinking as we were thousands of years ago. People still crave violence, and we're still largely selfish and insensitive brutes.

    When you go out into your community, or when you are looking into the mirror, you are seeing the whole of human history. You're seeing The Inquisition, The Holocaust, slavery, and rape, among other things. Of course, you're also seeing the good things of humanity as well, but does good actually outweigh bad? (I think so).

    The only thing that is different is our life circumstances. What do you think?
     
  2. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    I'm not really sure what you are asking.

    I like to think that most of us have moved beyond the evil events that have occured in the past, and by being aware of them we have learned from them even if they were before our time. The saying that those who don't learn the past are doomed to repeat it does hold truth to it. You can even see that on the small scale, with people repeating the same bad acts and end up hurting themselves or those around them because they won't properly learn from their mistakes. I understand that there is a difference between being aware of the past and actually learning from it, but there is really only so much you can gather from something that hasn't actually happened to you.

    I like to think that I try to at least apply the events of the past (that I did not experience myself) to myself so it hold some kind of emotional weight to it, so I feel like I have really "learned" from it, and as such will not repeat it. It also seems like others try to do this as well. The world does have good people in it, and they do try to prevent the past from repeating itself.
     
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  3. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    Does the good actually outweigh the bad?....

    Answer: Of course I think so. Except that a bomb does more noise than a hug; rape does more damage than a pat on the back after a hard days work; but for every bomb that destroys and for every women or child that gets raped there are millions of people out there showing us that life is a beautiful thing; some things will never change and the things that can change, those are the things that we are responsible for making them happen. You cannot combat world hunger, corrupted politicians or diseases but we could plant trees, pick up the trash that dirtens our streets and give food to people who are in our vicinity, that's the real beauty of life, helping people and making a difference to the things that I can actually influence on, that's the reason I am here for buddy.
     
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  4. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

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    From what I see every day I'd have to say that bad seems to be winning. People are happy for the wrong reasons, they are sad for the wrong reasons, nobody uses the word 'sin' anymore. People are tired of the doom and gloom news mongering. Bad news, bad news, bad news .... it's almost like you become numb to it. When you look at the world leaders, omg if it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.
    My Dad mentioned to me the other day that God puts all leaders in place. He showed me the passages in the Bible saying that it's true. And just the thought of it made me very angry because it makes life seem as trivial as a game of chess.
    I hope this all makes perfect sense someday because right now life just seems weird and strange to me and I have no clue what we're all here for.
    I guess that was a bit of an off topic rant lol
     
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  5. Naxx

    Naxx Permanent Fixture

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    And in the grand scheme of things does it matter? Of course it does and it does not at the same time.

    Living beings evolve, along the way beings die, some get killed off faster than others and some live longer. It's about survival and humans are still surviving and even if we destroy this planet chances are we'll still be doing something on another planet somewhere else. The only people that truly care are other people and the universe itself is more than just people.

    I do not think there is absolute evil but only what we perceive to be to be against our most beloved beliefs.


    But if you're comparing to how we are now compared to say WW2 times I'd say we're more peaceful on average. True people still suffer on this planet just like in the past but wars are less bloody and technology is allowing more people to live better lives. The quality of living will eventually get even higher and I can tell you right now you're living a whole lot better than the kings of the past.

    Humans are the supreme organism of the earth and we are evolving (mainly technology) faster than anything seen on this planet thus far. We are the planets off spring and what happens to this planet in the many years to come I do not know but it's already given birth to the humans; the life of the plant will go on regardless.
     
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    #5 Naxx, Sep 11, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2009
  6. Sithious

    Sithious Well-known member

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    I think we're worse off then we've ever been
     
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  7. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I can show you the passages in your christian bible where God DOESN'T put leaders in place.

    God said to Samuel that he was incensed with the Hebrews for choosing to elect a Man over him to rule, and that from then on Human leaders would ...

    1 Samuel 8:4-22

    4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
    5 and said to him, ‘You are old and your sons do not follow in your ways; appoint for us, then, a king to govern us, like other nations.’
    6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, ‘Give us a king to govern us.’ Samuel prayed to the Lord,
    7 and the Lord said to Samuel, ‘Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.
    8 Just as they have done to me, from the day I brought them up out of Egypt to this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so also they are doing to you.
    9 Now then, listen to their voice; only—you shall solemnly warn them, and show them the ways of the king who shall reign over them.’
    10 So Samuel reported all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king.
    11 He said, ‘These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen, and to run before his chariots;
    12 and he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plough his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots.
    13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.
    14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his courtiers.
    15 He will take one-tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and his courtiers.
    16 He will take your male and female slaves, and the best of your cattle and donkeys, and put them to his work.
    17 He will take one-tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves.

    18 And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves; but the Lord will not answer you in that day.’
    19 But the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel; they said, ‘No! but we are determined to have a king over us,
    20 so that we also may be like other nations, and that our king may govern us and go out before us and fight our battles.’

    21 When Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the ears of the Lord.
    22 The Lord said to Samuel, ‘Listen to their voice and set a king over them.’ Samuel then said to the people of Israel, ‘Each of you return home.’

    Your god doesn't set the leaders over men. Men seek out leaders of their own so that men do not need to make their own choices.
    People are sheep who seek to elect one of their own as a shepherd so that they need not think.
    The fact that they don't think is why they elect wolves.
     
  8. Naxx

    Naxx Permanent Fixture

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  9. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    And god said "Nya nya nyaa nyaa nyaa nyaa, fuck off you stupid fucks, me and my angels are playing MarioKart 64c on our HyperAwesome Nintendo 64core. Told you they'd do it, so you can fuck off. Pfft, even your Thomas Paine warned you cunts in his pamphlet 'Common Sense'. Hah!"
     
  10. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    History does not repeat itself, it just rhymes.
     
  11. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    I don't believe in evil.

    I do, however, believe that mankind and history are both very complex, and it would be very difficult to say who's worst off during what time. The flaws reflect the times, but they will always be present.
     
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  12. sassafras

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    I agree.
     
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  13. The world is a much safer place to live in now then it ever has been, at least in first world countries, and we have systems in third world countries to try and relieve strife that didn't exist until the most recent century.

    Humanity, in general, hasn't learned much in the time that we've existed on this planet; that would require us to have some sort of hive mind that allowed us to process and absorb the experiences of humanity in the past, and that sort of thing only exists in sci-fi.

    What we do have is the ability to chronicle those experiences, and for some of us to study and learn from the mistakes and lessons of the past. We also have the power to put systems in place to protect people and ensure their right to a healthy, secure standard life.

    There will always be stupid people, Neanderthals who have learned nothing from humanity's long history of strife, suffering, cruelty and hardships, but we also live in a time right now where there is little world strife or conflict, where personal security and support is a luxury afforded to the whole first-world, where poverty is at all time low (recession =//= poverty).

    This generation is one that lives in luxury, that doesn't have to deal with the kind of conflicts, personal strife and wars previous generation had to, and where food, shelter and good health are almost guaranteed luxuries. It's why this generation is so diverse but also incredibly unfocused - we have nothing to band around and fight for, because lives is so easy for us.

    So to answer your question? No, humanity in general doesn't learn from its mistakes, and there will always be people who prove that, but we have managed to make the world a safer and better place through rectifying the mistakes of the past.
     
    #13 Deleted member 1391, Sep 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2009
  14. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    The bible is full of contradictions, thanks for pointing out the obvious.
    Religion is absolutely absurd. If anything, it only exists to justify the destruction humans do to one another and the planet.

    No, things are not better or safer now than in millenia past. Things are worse. This planet will not sustain us as our civilization is. Someone made a point to me that has stuck with me: "We forget we are walking and building and living atop something that is also alive. Either we will destroy it or it will destroy us to save itself."

    Every single one of us lives each day, falsely. We cope by building rickety erector set towers of "truth" and "solution" always building and fixing, causing problems only to avoid them by solving them.
     
    #14 acd, Sep 12, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  15. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    Whoever said that hit it right on. There's also the Gaia theory:

    The Gaia Theory posits that the organic and inorganic components of Planet Earth have evolved together as a single living, self-regulating system. It suggests that this living system has automatically controlled global temperature, atmospheric content, ocean salinity, and other factors, that maintains its own habitability. In a phrase,
     
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  16. acd

    acd Well-known member

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  17. Smellfungus

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    (Why oh why did I come on to the philosophy boards! I should have known better! Here we go...)

    Hmm. The way I see it there is no inherent good or evil in the universe, there is only action and consequence. Good and evil only exist from your perspective. One good deed can open the door to a wave of evil and vice versa. What one person considers to be good another may view as evil. The controversy surrounding halal meat demonstrates this nicely.

    Some people are, undeniably, just as you describe them. It's also true that we haven't come very far over the millenia in terms of cultural advancement.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThUaBAGJpQs&feature=related

    This is a clip from the film Waking Life. It ties in with what you're saying and a few of the other posts too.

    If you could collate all the data and come to a decision of whether or not the sum total of good outweighs the sum total of bad would the answer serve any constructive purpose? If you strive to do good in all facets of life then does it matter?

    I don't entirely agree. I'd say we're shaped by the whole universe, that the entirety of our circumstance is what differentiates us from the next person. We are affected by a plethora of things every day however subtly.

    Are you sure we cannot combat world hunger, corrupted politicians or diseases? Each man is powerful in that we have a voice. We are moved daily by the words of others but it's easy to forget that what we have to say could change the world. It's difficult for one man to completely change the world but IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE! In making an impression on just one or two people you can influence people (with a little luck) you've never or will never meet.

    Eep, I consider that to be a very dangerous line of thinking matey... One of the causes for the tremendous apathy of modern man. We always have somebody else to rely on, things will always turn out right because science can save us. At the moment it costs hundreds of thousands of pounds just to get a tourist up into space. To the best of my knowledge we don't even know of any other planets that could support us at our current stage of development. If things continue the way they're going I don't see us lasting another hundred years, two hundred at the very most. I expect something big by the end of 2012.

    Wars are LESS bloody? WW2 saw casualties far excelling anything seen ever before. Simple hack and slash didn't leave much room for survivors. Modern warfare is cold, impersonal and devastating, yes armies in the past would rape and pillage but it still happens today.

    It seems to me that as standards of living rise our quality of life seems relatively unaffected, if not decreased. Many people, no matter how comfortable, are unhappy and no current or foreseeable technology can change that alone.

    :D I like that!

    How do you know? :p

    Aha, I concur. Except that I would say there is a lot for us to fight for it's just hidden from our sight by the media and those who make money leeching from it. Ignorance and closed mindedness is encouraged by society.

    Amen! Though I'd have to say religion serves many other individually constructive purposes and can't be dismissed so simply. Though I agree it is a fallacy.

    I think I may have deviated a fair bit in the course of this ramble but I'll leave it as it is. Enjoy!
     
  18. Lucifer

    Lucifer Registered User #666

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  19. vSv

    vSv Newbie

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    Good? Evil?

    Purely preferences that are man-made, they will always exist to define the difference between a "better" life and a lesser one.
    As long as it ain't 100% equality of course in everything, which I doubt there can ever be as long as were still humans.

    Evil for one can also be good for someone else and vice versa, I don't believe in something such as an absolute good/evil, I'd rather stick with the preferences of the words to describe the differences that makes our lives different from each other.

    And things like kindness and altruism, I think those are only words to describe what we do for ourselves without understanding it as we think we do something good for someone else without gaining from it ourselves, when we actually do, otherwise we would not do those things.
     
  20. Smellfungus

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    True altruism is a hard thing to come by. I can identify only a handful of instances in my history where I feel certain I was acting completely without any idea of gain. I believe a constant altruistic state is possible but only achieveable through intense or ultimate self awareness.
     
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