ESTJ
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I've spent a ton of time on trying to crack this one, and it took me months to be able to finally put myself in his shoes for just a moment or two. It's because their entire perspective is contrary to my own. They view themselves from outside and I view myself from within. What actions I take depend on internal processes. What actions he takes depend on external expectations made by himself according to his system of right and wrong.
He's completely blind to other peoples internal processes. I'm pretty that at some point he didn't even realize they existed at all. He stereotypes and uses very broad strokes where I look for nuances. "All women do this" and "All Buddhists do that" and I cringe when I hear that stuff.
To me he often seems constrained. Locked up tight. No entry into his core. The only times when he lets what I perceive as a wall fall is when he lets something external flow through him. Something like music. I stopped trying to decipher what is going on beneath the surface with him and came to a point where I belief that what you see is what you get. He has no sense of shame. He has no problem being at the center of attention. He'll debase himself in front of a crowd for a laugh without a second thought.
The job of us being able to relate to one another is entirely mine. And it wasn't easy getting that done. You can't pressure him to tell you what's going on inside him. I don't talk small, and smalltalk is what he excels at.
When I was fighting off depression this is what he sent me
http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/meh.ro5115.jpg
I don't care if it's stupid. It made me laugh, and at that time I really needed it. He is incredibly giving. He organized my 27th birthday and it was awesome, indeed. He considered what I wanted (not many people, no big party) and blew my mind away. A private tour through a big cat rescue shelter followed by a night out, a private booth for the three of us in a fondue restaurant. A night of chocolate covered strawberries and chocolate covered kisses. He excels at creating an atmosphere of joy around him.
There is boundless energy in him. There is a sense of right and wrong. There is good in him. It's not always easy, because he will never really get me, But... he is exactly what I need. He is a great guy, and yeah, I love him.
He's completely blind to other peoples internal processes. I'm pretty that at some point he didn't even realize they existed at all. He stereotypes and uses very broad strokes where I look for nuances. "All women do this" and "All Buddhists do that" and I cringe when I hear that stuff.
To me he often seems constrained. Locked up tight. No entry into his core. The only times when he lets what I perceive as a wall fall is when he lets something external flow through him. Something like music. I stopped trying to decipher what is going on beneath the surface with him and came to a point where I belief that what you see is what you get. He has no sense of shame. He has no problem being at the center of attention. He'll debase himself in front of a crowd for a laugh without a second thought.
The job of us being able to relate to one another is entirely mine. And it wasn't easy getting that done. You can't pressure him to tell you what's going on inside him. I don't talk small, and smalltalk is what he excels at.
When I was fighting off depression this is what he sent me
http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/meh.ro5115.jpg
I don't care if it's stupid. It made me laugh, and at that time I really needed it. He is incredibly giving. He organized my 27th birthday and it was awesome, indeed. He considered what I wanted (not many people, no big party) and blew my mind away. A private tour through a big cat rescue shelter followed by a night out, a private booth for the three of us in a fondue restaurant. A night of chocolate covered strawberries and chocolate covered kisses. He excels at creating an atmosphere of joy around him.
There is boundless energy in him. There is a sense of right and wrong. There is good in him. It's not always easy, because he will never really get me, But... he is exactly what I need. He is a great guy, and yeah, I love him.
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The former director of IT where I work is ESTJ.
I just spent a couple of days with a lot of face time with him. We get along well, although my inability to make small talk, and his insistance on constant small talk creates a bit of tension, but it helps me get better at it. I am very careful about what I say because 90% of it outside of technical talk is too deep. I get along with him best by giving him a hard time and applying my wit when possible, although nothing too controversial.
He takes us to lunch when he visits. Same restaurant every time, same dish.
According to him, about 90% of the world is either a weirdo or has something wrong with them. He has an opinion on just about everyone that passes by and makes that comment known; usually loud enough so they can hear. I just try to be one of that 10% around him that isn't a weirdo and doesn't have something wrong with them.
My grandfather is also ESTJ although he is older and I think he has tamed down quite a bit.
I just spent a couple of days with a lot of face time with him. We get along well, although my inability to make small talk, and his insistance on constant small talk creates a bit of tension, but it helps me get better at it. I am very careful about what I say because 90% of it outside of technical talk is too deep. I get along with him best by giving him a hard time and applying my wit when possible, although nothing too controversial.
He takes us to lunch when he visits. Same restaurant every time, same dish.
According to him, about 90% of the world is either a weirdo or has something wrong with them. He has an opinion on just about everyone that passes by and makes that comment known; usually loud enough so they can hear. I just try to be one of that 10% around him that isn't a weirdo and doesn't have something wrong with them.
My grandfather is also ESTJ although he is older and I think he has tamed down quite a bit.
- Nov 12, 2008
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Outside of my dad, I haven't had too terrible experiences with ESTJ's. Luckily I haven't had to work work for many of them. 3 summers ago I worked with one and she hated me, but I made the best of it.
ESTJs... make me sad.
Okay, well, I really only know one personally,and that's my mom. We can actually get along well when I just shut my mouth and agree, or when I don't let her negativity get to me. Basically, when I can monitor myself and she's in a good mood, we can be great friends. Other than that... mehhh.
GAH. It's like dealing with a bulldozer.
:| Loud and bombastic, very strong. At times really lacking tact. :|
As for the good points, you know when they care, they really will destroy mountains to make you happy.
:| Loud and bombastic, very strong. At times really lacking tact. :|
As for the good points, you know when they care, they really will destroy mountains to make you happy.
I second this. They may lack tact but what they say in a moment has a ring of truth good or bad. More Developed and mature ones, although prone to saying first and thinking later will revisit comments made in haste but that is no guarantee that they will apologize. Worked for one, he was a fun guy creature of habit but can easily motivate if you are wanting it too.
*twitches* One track mind, completely linear. Everything out of the scope of their objective, they are completely blind to.
Extremely hard and frustrating to deal with for me. Conversation is nearly impossible, it's like we're talking in different languages. My theoretical, detailed and logically exacting way of talking and thinking clashes completely with his cut and dry sweeping generalizations, and monochromatic way of thinking.
My ESTJ parent has this obsession to get everyone to conform to his standards of what is "good" and "normal", and it is infuriating.
He also decries anything that doesn't conform to his standards as "wrong" and there is literally no way of changing his mind. He is completely oblivious to the damage he is creating to people by doing this.
If you disagree with him, you are obviously wrong and he will repeat his point ad nauseum until you concede.
[MENTION=751]Peppermint[/MENTION] can you please provide a link to that website? I found it interesting.
Bump. Here comes my first angry outburst on this forum. Get ready.
My ESTJ cousin is driving me crazy. Every time she walks in the room, all I want to do is run. And she knows this. She makes me feel so threatened. And she seems to take delight in it - she'll sit down next to me and I know she's counting how many seconds until I make an excuse to leave. And if I try to show her that I need space, she'll play dumb - always following me, thinking that if I spend time with her I'll feel better.
She always thinks she knows best. She won't let anyone do anything. She literally skips around the house looking for business to stick her nose into. I decided to be nice and make her cookies. But every five minutes she skips in and opens the oven door, checks on them. When I'm getting them of the pan, she starts to take the spatula from me, saying, "I like spatuling..." She has to touch my hand to get it, and as soon as she touches me I have no choice but to jump away. I'm truly afraid of her. And all I wanted was to do her a favor so she'd leave me alone.
I can be very possessive, and I hate it when people use my things with out asking. I was reading on the couch, and she skips over and plucks my guitar. It's not like she asked, "can I try this?", she just bends over and saws at a string. (She doesn't play.) I gave her the meanest glare I could (which for me is basically going cross-eyed, I'm not a very menacing person) but she didn't see.
I've tried to understand why I am so repulsed by her but it doesn't get me anywhere. We're certainly fundamentally different, but she can't accept that. She seems to expect everyone to just love to be helped and attended to, whilst following her orders and smiling. AHH ANGER. Someone help me.
My ESTJ cousin is driving me crazy. Every time she walks in the room, all I want to do is run. And she knows this. She makes me feel so threatened. And she seems to take delight in it - she'll sit down next to me and I know she's counting how many seconds until I make an excuse to leave. And if I try to show her that I need space, she'll play dumb - always following me, thinking that if I spend time with her I'll feel better.
She always thinks she knows best. She won't let anyone do anything. She literally skips around the house looking for business to stick her nose into. I decided to be nice and make her cookies. But every five minutes she skips in and opens the oven door, checks on them. When I'm getting them of the pan, she starts to take the spatula from me, saying, "I like spatuling..." She has to touch my hand to get it, and as soon as she touches me I have no choice but to jump away. I'm truly afraid of her. And all I wanted was to do her a favor so she'd leave me alone.
I can be very possessive, and I hate it when people use my things with out asking. I was reading on the couch, and she skips over and plucks my guitar. It's not like she asked, "can I try this?", she just bends over and saws at a string. (She doesn't play.) I gave her the meanest glare I could (which for me is basically going cross-eyed, I'm not a very menacing person) but she didn't see.
I've tried to understand why I am so repulsed by her but it doesn't get me anywhere. We're certainly fundamentally different, but she can't accept that. She seems to expect everyone to just love to be helped and attended to, whilst following her orders and smiling. AHH ANGER. Someone help me.
I CANNOT STAND ESTJS. HI PLEASE GET OUT OF MY SKIN AND FORCING ME TO CRAWL.
- Nov 12, 2008
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Have you openly said something to her? Did you tell her what you're thinking or feeling? She isn't going to change a thing she is doing until you do so. The onus is on you with this one.
Well I didn't bother putting people I know to this and that type. I only analyze one or two usually the ones who are closest to me. Come to think of it I don't even know if I have a straightforward ESTJ acquaintance.
Even my former roommate was an ESTP. We didn't get along well though. She hated my inability to be 'in the present' and I hated her inability to acknowledge that different people have different strength - she proclaimed herself an extreme liberal when she wouldn't even respect a single people other that herself. Well that was harsh but not many of them.
When I feel extreme internal pressure because of externalities (and I do feel it very often) I start to behave like a beginner ESTP as well - I think mainly because that is our INFJs opposite. I'm not too good at it I just don't find another solution most of the time.
But that's really off topic and can't think of any particular ESTJ among my acquaintances.
Even my former roommate was an ESTP. We didn't get along well though. She hated my inability to be 'in the present' and I hated her inability to acknowledge that different people have different strength - she proclaimed herself an extreme liberal when she wouldn't even respect a single people other that herself. Well that was harsh but not many of them.
When I feel extreme internal pressure because of externalities (and I do feel it very often) I start to behave like a beginner ESTP as well - I think mainly because that is our INFJs opposite. I'm not too good at it I just don't find another solution most of the time.
But that's really off topic and can't think of any particular ESTJ among my acquaintances.
I LOVE ESTPS!
Honestly, I'm biased in that I love my 4 functions, and don't really like people who don't have them, as well as I do people who do have them. XNFJs and XSTPs ARE MY FAVORITE. My really good friend is ESTP, and I love her! She does constantly comment I need to take an intellectual chill pill every now and then, and just enjoy the world but I don't mind. She brings a whole new piece of the pie to the table, and I heart her.
Honestly, I'm biased in that I love my 4 functions, and don't really like people who don't have them, as well as I do people who do have them. XNFJs and XSTPs ARE MY FAVORITE. My really good friend is ESTP, and I love her! She does constantly comment I need to take an intellectual chill pill every now and then, and just enjoy the world but I don't mind. She brings a whole new piece of the pie to the table, and I heart her.
My best friend is an ESTJ.
We get along well except
for her inability to really listen
or accept what others have
to say.
We get along well except
for her inability to really listen
or accept what others have
to say.
To be honest I'm not sure of her type. She's the first person I've tried to type myself. I did it by finding her functions, then seeing where they line up. Reading stories here, she definitely fits the ESTJ mold. Either the story is true, which is all that matters.
PS I love your screen name. Welcome!