DSPD and the Night Owls

[TheFool]

Greetings fellow Night Owls!

Anyone here who has knowledge about DSPD - Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder?

I am trying understand why I can’t go to bed at the same time as everyone else. After every time-off from the work it takes about 2 months of 7-16 working schedule to totally fuck up my energy levels..

I am planning to start working with something more flexible that allow me to sleep until 10 am since that is the time I always wake up at when I have a day-off. Wondering if anyone of you have done such adjustments to cope with your forever increasing sleep deficit?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Greetings fellow Night Owls!

Anyone here who has knowledge about DSPD - Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder?

I am trying understand why I can’t go to bed at the same time as everyone else. After every time-off from the work it takes about 2 months of 7-16 working schedule to totally fuck up my energy levels..

I am planning to start working with something more flexible that allow me to sleep until 10 am since that is the time I always wake up at when I have a day-off. Wondering if anyone of you have done such adjustments to cope with your forever increasing sleep deficit?

I have very severe DSPD - my natural bedtime is between 4 and 9am and the only solution is discipline I'm afraid.

There is no cure, so you're just going to have to power through life. Our modern tribes no longer needs as many night sentinels.

 

[TheFool]

I have very severe DSPD - my natural bedtime is between 4 and 9am and the only solution is discipline I'm afraid.

There is no cure, so you're just going to have to power through life. Our modern tribes no longer needs as many night sentinels.

I understand that there is no cure. It is not really a disorder either. Some folks needed to stay awake so that the other fucks would not be eaten alive by some beast. Natural selection.

If I could start working at the noon and work until 20 I am sure I would feel a lot better. But it is hard to plan your family time when everyone else wakes up at 7 am...

Dunno.. My mind is covered by a thick haze of sleep deficit. Just few more days and I will get a week off..

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I understand that there is no cure. It is not really a disorder either. Some folks needed to stay awake so that the other fucks would not be eaten alive by some beast. Natural selection.

If I could start working at the noon and work until 20 I am sure I would feel a lot better. But it is hard to plan your family time when everyone else wakes up at 7 am...

Dunno.. My mind is covered by a thick haze of sleep deficit. Just few more days and I will get a week off..

Prepare for a life of shit

 

[Tin Man]

Greetings fellow Night Owls!

Anyone here who has knowledge about DSPD - Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder?

I am trying understand why I can’t go to bed at the same time as everyone else. After every time-off from the work it takes about 2 months of 7-16 working schedule to totally fuck up my energy levels..

I am planning to start working with something more flexible that allow me to sleep until 10 am since that is the time I always wake up at when I have a day-off. Wondering if anyone of you have done such adjustments to cope with your forever increasing sleep deficit?

Yes, being a night owl does suck.
Unfortunately, as mentioned, there's not really any way around it. You could keep to the same sleep schedule you're used to when you have time off.

I mean, you could, but I've never managed it.

I can suggest white noise/rain generator apps or machines. I find them pretty good to knock me out.
You can even get pillows with a inbuilt speaker for the white noise generator. I have one, and find it really good. I don't even feel the speaker.

I also find certain meditation practices to be helpful. Or listening to a podcast that's a bit dull. History podcasts often have a narrators with very smooth, monotone voices. Which can be helpful.

Honestly though, all of this only helps a bit. I'm still pretty sleep deprived most of the time, and no matter how long I spend training my brain, I'm never going to be an early bird.
The only solution is to find a job that suits your sleeping patterns. But you've already brought up the problems with that.

Sorry I couldn't be of much help. But when you're awake at 1 am in the morning, just remember there are plenty of night owls right there with you.

 

[Wyote]

I definitely have this, though I've always just thought of myself as a badass whenever I have to get up after only two hours of sleep or whatever.

My gf always pokes fun at me because at about 8pm I start getting all philosophical and sometimes I'll keep her up and it makes her frustrated because I'm super interesting but she has to sleep and is very tired.

I am largely useless before 11am. Somewhat a potato until 8pm.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

My gf always pokes fun at me because at about 8pm I start getting all philosophical and sometimes I'll keep her up and it makes her frustrated because I'm super interesting but she has to sleep and is very tired.

So relatable, except with me it's more like 8am after the whole day.

 

[TheFool]

I definitely have this, though I've always just thought of myself as a badass whenever I have to get up after only two hours of sleep or whatever.

My gf always pokes fun at me because at about 8pm I start getting all philosophical and sometimes I'll keep her up and it makes her frustrated because I'm super interesting but she has to sleep and is very tired.

I am largely useless before 11am. Somewhat a potato until 8pm.

I feel you.. My mind becomes most creative after 8pm. That is why I love rave parties and long evening sitting when I can chat about more deeper stuff. Also most of the stuff I write here are written between 8-12pm.

 

[TheFool]

Yes, being a night owl does suck.
Unfortunately, as mentioned, there's not really any way around it. You could keep to the same sleep schedule you're used to when you have time off.

I mean, you could, but I've never managed it.

I can suggest white noise/rain generator apps or machines. I find them pretty good to knock me out.
You can even get pillows with a inbuilt speaker for the white noise generator. I have one, and find it really good. I don't even feel the speaker.

I also find certain meditation practices to be helpful. Or listening to a podcast that's a bit dull. History podcasts often have a narrators with very smooth, monotone voices. Which can be helpful.

Honestly though, all of this only helps a bit. I'm still pretty sleep deprived most of the time, and no matter how long I spend training my brain, I'm never going to be an early bird.
The only solution is to find a job that suits your sleeping patterns. But you've already brought up the problems with that.

Sorry I couldn't be of much help. But when you're awake at 1 am in the morning, just remember there are plenty of night owls right there with you.

The thing is that researchers say that if we force ourselves to sleep during the time which is not our natural sleeping time, the brain fails to produce the needed proteins, enzymes and hormones. Therefore the sleep you get is like drinking non-alcoholic beer to get drunk.

I refuse to keep on living like this. I don’t care if I am not able to work 100% and have less money. It is not worth it if I do not have the energy to do anything while I am free from work.

BTW I usually listen to Alan Watts or some Yoga Nidra clips when I can’t get sleep. Alan’s voice is perfect for falling asleep.

 

[TheFool]

Prepare for a life of shit

I refuse! It is not easier when I live in North where the Sun does not even set for 2 months per year.. But I will come up with some solution and then I will write a book about it during the sleepless nights!

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I refuse! It is not easier when I live in North where the Sun does not even set for 2 months per year.. But I will come up with some solution and then I will write a book about it during the sleepless nights!

LMFAO send me a copy!!

I'm joking, man. This shit can suck, but I feel ya

 

[Tin Man]

The thing is that researchers say that if we force ourselves to sleep during the time which is not our natural sleeping time, the brain fails to produce the needed proteins, enzymes and hormones. Therefore the sleep you get is like drinking non-alcoholic beer to get drunk.

I refuse to keep on living like this. I don’t care if I am not able to work 100% and have less money. It is not worth it if I do not have the energy to do anything while I am free from work.

BTW I usually listen to Alan Watts or some Yoga Nidra clips when I can’t get sleep. Alan’s voice is perfect for falling asleep.

I get you on being too tired to do anything outside of your job. It kind of destroys any work-life balance. So good luck with making a life that works for you.

I'm currently in a job where eventually I can move my hours from 12-8. I don't care about being an ant-social weirdo. In fact, I revel in it.

And yes, I can see Alan Watts' voice being amazing at putting you to sleep. I imagine you also get some very interesting dreams.

 

[TheFool]

I have forced myself to live this 9-17 life since I was a kid. Sleeping during the morning classes and stay awake late doing stuff I liked. The past 2 years I have eaten Vyanse and melatonin to ”fit in” but tossed it away in January. Vyanse fucked up my receptors and I still feel drained after 5 months..

We are given a pill to “cure” all different kinds of “disorders”. Dis-order has nothing to do with the individual. It is the problem of system that is inflexible. The cunt who came up with a clock and the calendar did it only to improve efficiency of production. Yes we get two days of per week to chill out but the way we live, bounded by taxes and loans is just another form of slavery which we accept willingly. Our sense of time and connection to nature and space has become so alienated thanks to the clockwork we commonly follow. We are never given the opportunity to really follow our own internal cycles nor are we able to live in harmony with natural cycles. Every Sunday is the same, every month is alike and every year another repeating cycle.

The ancients knew that every sunrise is a beginning of a cycle that is totally unique. The wise ones understood that every moonrise brings changes of different kind. And to feel healthy and balanced, we choose the specific days to do specific tasks and non-tasks. There was time to rest and there was time to work. Ebb and flow.

Now it is all just about the flow and how to be there as long and as much as possible...

 

[Tin Man]

Yup, I definitely agree with you about how our current system is unnatural. It's been proven human beings become less productive and efficient after 4 hours of work so the 8 hour days are bad from a production standpoint. And we're no longer even doing 8 hour work days. It's now 8.5 because the half hour we get for lunch is no longer covered. Plus there's all the time commuting, and getting ready. It's less a cycle of 8 hours work, 8 play, and 8 sleep. And more like 10-12 hours work (but only paid for 8, then 12 hours for sleep, chores, resting, play, and family time. It's a really messed up system. And it's so weird it's accepted as the norm since it's only a few decades old.

And then if you're a contractor or temp, it's even worse. No sick or holiday pay. No union to fight for you. No security. And more big businesses are leaning to this way of employment because it saves them money. And they can treat the worker like crap. The rich gets richer and richer until a level will be reached where it's virtually impossible for more gains to be made. And so it leads to another collapse in the economy where everybody gets fucked over except the rich. They get a slap on the wrist, or lose their jobs, but then go onto to give seminars on economics or business strategy. And the whole cycle starts again...

Kinda got off topic there. I suppose the real problem with being a night owl is a problem with neo-liberalism. Where anyone who has difficulty integrating into the current system is left to fend for themselves. To struggle and try to either conform or find a way of existence outside of societal norms.

So there you go @TheFool you've got too easy solutions to your problem

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Just if anyone is interested, we had a thread on this a while back:

https://www.infjs.com/threads/sleep-disorders-poll.35617/

 

[Infjente]

Did any of you have colic as babies?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Did any of you have colic as babies?

No idea.

This a causal theory?

 

[Infjente]

No idea.

This a causal theory?

It's just that I had it for 3 months as a baby, from 8pm till 2am. 3 months is a lot of time when the brain develops so rapidly ... So I've been wondering if I could have had something to do with my DSPD

I haven't found anything scientific that supports the correlation between the two, though.

 

[Faye]

@TheFool

I have DSPS, self-diagnosed since they didn't want to help me at the sleep clinic. I used to be non-24 due to it and various stress, and not a day goes by that I do not dread returning to that situation.

I have found that waking up around 10 am is much easier for me to do consistently. I can get away with it for at least the rest of this summer, but I am not sure about the future. I have read a lot about sleep hygiene and such, have had thyroid and all that check, and have tried more psychotropic meds and tranquilizers than I can count. The meds are not that good.

Currently I take hydroxyzine which doubly acts on allergies and anxiety, and it seems to work for me. I also use a special lamp each morning (if I remember) that helps keep me adjusted. The other big thing is to avoid alcohol, limit caffeine dramatically, and try to not stress too much (tough I know). Also, there is one more critical thing that no doctor, therapist, or book on sleep I have seen says but I 100% believe is true, which is that you need positive social interaction. Lack of positive social interaction causes sleep disregulation, and I think it is a big thing that drove me in to non-24. It is probably more important than anything else, but doctors and such are almost always oblivious to it.

I guess I should add that having another sleep disorder can complicate things and would need to be address too. I am close to having restless leg syndrome but failed when I did my sleep study. There is a lot to consider.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I used to be non-24 due to it and various stress, and not a day goes by that I do not dread returning to that situation.

Non-24 is horrific.

The other big thing is to avoid alcohol, limit caffeine dramatically, and try to not stress too much (tough I know). Also, there is one more critical thing that no doctor, therapist, or book on sleep I have seen says but I 100% believe is true, which is that you need positive social interaction. Lack of positive social interaction causes sleep disregulation, and I think it is a big thing that drove me in to non-24.

Oh that's interesting... makes sense to me.

Total Speculation Time
We've talked about the potential evolutionary purpose of DSPD as a natural mechanism for 'night sentinels' - you're the guys who are awake when nobody else is, watching over the tribe, &c.

Suppose then that sleep is a much more social activity than is currently believed, and therefore that our sleep cycles are socially regulated, e.g. by the oxytocin and seratonin circuits.

Fucking brilliant idea, @Faye!