Dorothy you are not in Kansas any more. | Page 7 | INFJ Forum

Dorothy you are not in Kansas any more.

If you watch this video from the 4m mark to the 5m mark, you'll witness his mentioning vaccines as contributing to a 10-15% population reduction.

https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_innovating_to_zero#t-277372
Yet he also mentions 'health care [and] reproductive health services'. The assumption being made that he aims to kill off the world population as a result of 'vaccines' is just incorrect interpretation - he only ever talks about the population decreasing as a result of the better quality of life which can be afforded, primarily to those in developing countries/continents such as Africa, whereby families will reproduce less as an 'insurance' measure to ensure some of their children survived. This has all been explained in previous interviews of his I linked for acd.

He also mentions how providing services such as 'heating, clothing, food, TV' to everyone will get rid of poverty, which he cites as a 'great thing'. For a man trying to kill off the population, why would he be so focused on elevating those in poverty and helping them to contribute and grow their respective domestic economies?

And here is an excellent documentary of Bill Gates by James Corbett who does extremely solid investigation.

https://www.corbettreport.com/who-is-bill-gates-full-documentary-2020/
I'm sorry but I'm just not going to spend two hours of my time watching a documentary. For the sake of you sharing it, I paid attention to the first few minutes.

Yes, he isn't a medical expert or practitioner. Has he ever said he has?
The man is powerful and influential, with an intellect that most definitely is within the top few percent. With that comes a degree of ego-mania I'm sure - apparently his temper for 'fools' at work was well-known - hence why he likely speaks on healthcare matters with the authority he does. Yet it's also because he is one of the most recognisable people on the planet, and the message he is trying to deliver wouldn't be as impactful, arguably, by a scientist who is an expert in the field yet whom no one knows. Perhaps there is an ego element to it, too, in his desire to be seen as a healthcare authority. I've yet to see him claim that he is one.
His role is to get the attention of donors and the world, as those working in his foundation do all of nitty gritty. For example, he's been talking for years about the 'next pandemic'. Maybe other scientists have warned about it too, but I've only seen videos or articles about it concerning him - why? He's Bill Gates.

As for the Microsoft controversy, I can't really comment on that as I know little about it. To me it's just big corporations doing what they do best - be greedy.

Perhaps healthcare was an odd avenue for him to go into, following Microsoft. But I think if I had that money, and all of that time with nothing to do, I'd want to pursue a new work project too to keep from killing myself out of boredom.
 
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For those not trusting of doctors and experts on this topic. Join the COVID support group on Facebook just to see what people are really going through with covid. So many stories of vaccinated members surviving covid while their unvaccinated family members, in many cases spouses, do not. Just read a post from a woman whose whole family caught covid when she was pregnant. She was vaccinated and her husband was not. Sadly he passed after spending weeks on a vent. She delivered her baby early, but otherwise healthy. It's really become a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
It is awful. My Mum is an ITU nurse, whose ward in her hospital was converted to a covid ward for the severely or critically ill. The stories she sometimes came home with were bloody awful - the extent of the impact being so bad that recently the NHS here in England tried holding mental health seminars for their Staff, the majority of which didn't attend because it was 'two years too late' after all of the things they'd seen or had to do. My Mum's colleagues all walked out at the beginning in protest.

Recently she was telling me of a man that basically killed his family. Anti-vax, believing in the horse-tranquiliser medicine I can't remember the name of, who convinced his wife and her parents that it was all a hoax and the vaccines were too.
His wife's parents caught it bad. The mother-in-law died first. His father-in-law was essentially comatose for two weeks in her ward, before dying. All the while he kept yelling at the nurses down the phone to use all of these alternative treatments they couldn't - and wouldn't - give him as there's no medical evidence for them. Now his wife lost her parents all because of some distrust in something that could have prevented such severe symptoms.
I think if people volunteered or spectated what was going on in these hospital wards, they would be a lot less damning of the medicine. There's so many stories like this, or similar. Arguably more than any stories posted online about people having adverse effects of the vaccine, in whatever severity.
 
When government tries to solve medical and public health issues its demonized as "Socialism" and when billionaire capitalists try to do the same its called "democide."
 
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Yet he also mentions 'health care [and] reproductive health services'. The assumption being made that he aims to kill off the world population as a result of 'vaccines' is just incorrect interpretation - he only ever talks about the population decreasing as a result of the better quality of life which can be afforded, primarily to those in developing countries/continents such as Africa, whereby families will reproduce less as an 'insurance' measure to ensure some of their children survived. This has all been explained in previous interviews of his I linked for acd.

He also mentions how providing services such as 'heating, clothing, food, TV' to everyone will get rid of poverty, which he cites as a 'great thing'. For a man trying to kill off the population, why would he be so focused on elevating those in poverty and helping them to contribute and grow their respective domestic economies?


I'm sorry but I'm just not going to spend two hours of my time watching a documentary. For the sake of you sharing it, I paid attention to the first few minutes.

Yes, he isn't a medical expert or practitioner. Has he ever said he has?
The man is powerful and influential, with an intellect that most definitely is within the top few percent. With that comes a degree of ego-mania I'm sure - apparently his temper for 'fools' at work was well-known - hence why he likely speaks on healthcare matters with the authority he does. Yet it's also because he is one of the most recognisable people on the planet, and the message he is trying to deliver wouldn't be as impactful, arguably, by a scientist who is an expert in the field yet whom no one knows. Perhaps there is an ego element to it, too, in his desire to be seen as a healthcare authority. I've yet to see him claim that he is one.
His role is to get the attention of donors and the world, as those working in his foundation do all of nitty gritty. For example, he's been talking for years about the 'next pandemic'. Maybe other scientists have warned about it too, but I've only seen videos or articles about it concerning him - why? He's Bill Gates.

As for the Microsoft controversy, I can't really comment on that as I know little about it. To me it's just big corporations doing what they do best - be greedy.

Perhaps healthcare was an odd avenue for him to go into, following Microsoft. But I think if I had that money, and all of that time with nothing to do, I'd want to pursue a new work project too to keep from killing myself out of boredom.
Oh, no need to apologize! I did not think you would watch it and that is, of course, perfectly ok.

The documentary drill into his background a bit. I think Gates is an exceptionally evil dude.

From:
https://multidimensionalocean.wordp...ies-led-to-polio-paralysis-in-india-in-1970s/

As reported by GreatGameIndia earlier, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the nephew of former American President John F. Kennedy, in a lengthy piece exposed Bill Gates activities in India and his “obsession with vaccines”.

Promising his share of $450 million of $1.2 billion to eradicate Polio, Bill Gates took control of India’s National Technical Advisory Group on Immunization (NTAGI) which mandated up to 50 doses of polio vaccines through overlapping immunization programs to children before the age of five.

Indian doctors blame the Gates campaign for a devastating non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) epidemic that paralyzed 490,000 children beyond expected rates between 2000 and 2017.

In 2017, the Indian government dialed back Gates’ vaccine regimen and asked Gates and his vaccine policies to leave India. NPAFP rates dropped precipitously.

In 2017, the World Health Organization (WHO) reluctantly admitted that the global explosion in polio is predominantly vaccine strain.

...

Similar was the case in Africa. A week after World Health Organisation (WHO) declared that its decade-long vaccination campaign in Africa was successful, its own oral vaccine itself has sparked a new Polio outbreak in the continent. The outbreak was caused by mutation of strain in vaccine.

According to another peer reviewed study published in a respected journal by the world’s most authoritative vaccine scientists, Bill Gates DTP vaccine killed 10 times more African girls than the disease itself.

The vaccine apparently compromised their immune systems. Although, such study was never performed before 2017, Bill Gates and the Vaccine Alliance GAVI and WHO pushed the vaccines on unsuspecting African babies.

Moreover, in unauthorised clinical trials Bill Gates funded NGO PATH killed tribal girls in India and got away with it.
[end of excerpt]

The horse dewormer is ivermectin. Interestingly enough, the day I arrived at my daughter's (she lives near Chicago) for Thanksgiving, there was a story about a man whose daughter said would definitely have died of covid. She requested ivermectin and the hospital refused. She went to court and the court ordered the hospital to use ivermectin. The man quickly recovered.

https://republicbroadcasting.org/ne...-his-deathbed-what-happens-next-is-a-miracle/
Rich Welsh | An elderly patient who was dying from COVID-19 fully recovered after a court ordered a hospital administrator to authorize he be treated with ivermectin. The family’s attorney had to go to court because the hospital objected to using ivermectin.

A hospital in Illinois was hell bent on using remdesivir for the patient and the treatment failed. Remdesivir does not have a good reputation for treating COVID, but it’s the drug that Dr. Anthony Fauci approves of. The patient was dying. His life was saved when a court ordered an outside medical doctor to treat him with the much less expensive ivermectin while the hospital strongly objected.
...
The judge wrote a preliminary injunction that ordered the hospital to “immediately allow … temporary emergency privileges” to Ng’s physician, Dr. Alan Bain, “solely to administer Ivermectin to this patient.”

The hospital defied the judge’s order on November 6 and 7 by denying Dr. Bain access to his patient. The hospital said it wouldn’t let Bain in because he wasn’t vaccinated against COVID-19. The judge’s order didn’t say “unless the doctor is not vaccinated.”

After the patient’s daughter filed an emergency report with the court on November 8 and the judge heard from both sides, he reprimanded the hospital and ordered that the hospital must allow Bain inside for a period of 15 days so he could do his job. We’re talking about someone’s life here.

The hospital filed a motion to stay the order and Judge Fullerton denied it and ordered the hospital to comply.

In the end, as usual, the ivermectin worked and Mr. Ng has since recovered from COVID-19 after being on his deathbed. He was eventually discharged from the hospital on November 27.

“My father’s recovery is amazing,” his daughter, Man Kwan Ng, said in a statement.
[end of excerpt]

Perhaps you will find it worthwhile to understand why it is almost all hospitals refuse ivermectin, no matter its amazing success. Also, perhaps, given its effectiveness, you might consider terming it something a bit more than "horse tranquilizer medicine" since confining it to its animal anti-parasitic uses is vastly inaccurate.

Finally, I would love to see some evidence of Gate's remorse (penitence) over the over half a million lives he is directly responsible for destroying.

I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
@o2b Well lol, whilst a bit of a dump of information, I'll try my best to get through it throughout the day.

Firstly, I'll reply to the point on 'Robert Kennedy Jr' and his 'activities in India'.
To begin with, Robert Kennedy is a nobody. I don't think the political dynasty of the Kennedy's is very influential within today's age, as their power has been dwindling ever since John's assassination. I don't give much credence to a man who uses the surname of a past, influential relative of his to build a platform for himself. Do I seriously think that he is given extraordinary insight into a secret world we civilians don't have access to? I don't think so. Unless he attends some political dinners he might be invited to.
A lengthy exposition? Where? All I can find when googling it as that he shared some captioned image on Instagram, and as a result got his account blocked for spreading misinformation for an already debunked theory. Surprisingly, it seems that to hear his important information one has to buy his book. If it is such an issue, why is this man charging for the pleasure of the information?
Neither is he a doctor. A man who is intent on spreading information such as he does either should have a medical background, or have a team of medical experts under their employment (such as Bill Gates). He has a degree in American history and literature and a masters in Law. So in what capacity is he speaking on vaccines? He is no more than a layman, such as you or I.

Where are the citations? Superscripts? Hundreds of thousands of infected children, there must be data for it. Where have they came from? It appears as though they have come out of thin air.
I can't find it. Can you? The study they mention says they 'may have been paralysed' - a claim by one 'leading paediatrician'. Who?
Also, why is Bill Gates on the article if it's about the 1970s and 1980s? The foundation was formed in 2000. Gates didn't even step down as Microsoft CEO until that same year, so I don't think he was involved in vaccines in the decades before as he was busy with Microsoft. What does this have to do with him?

All I can find is this fact-check article where the earliest record they could find about this was from none other than Robert Kennedy himself in a lengthy Instagram (of all things) post. As for the cases of the vaccine which mutated, and possibly/did cause paralysis? 17. In twenty one years. The last two being in 2010.

Similar was the case in Africa. A week after World Health Organisation (WHO) declared that its decade-long vaccination campaign in Africa was successful, its own oral vaccine itself has sparked a new Polio outbreak in the continent. The outbreak was caused by mutation of strain in vaccine.
A new outbreak? An outbreak? The same article later says it was two children. Vaccines aren't perfect. They aren't meant to be. There will always be mutations, such as with the Indian polio vaccine.

Similar was the case in Africa. A week after World Health Organisation (WHO) declared that its decade-long vaccination campaign in Africa was successful, its own oral vaccine itself has sparked a new Polio outbreak in the continent. The outbreak was caused by mutation of strain in vaccine.

According to another peer reviewed study published in a respected journal by the world’s most authoritative vaccine scientists, Bill Gates DTP vaccine killed 10 times more African girls than the disease itself.

The vaccine apparently compromised their immune systems. Although, such study was never performed before 2017, Bill Gates and the Vaccine Alliance GAVI and WHO pushed the vaccines on unsuspecting African babies.
This is grossly misleading. The fact this site even felt comfortable making such a claim which so contradicts the study it is basing such a statement on, seriously affects any credence it may have. This is disgusting 'journalism', if you can even call it that.
The study which they are even basing this on says themselves that the 'vaccine may kill more children from other causes than it saves from diphtheria, tetanus or pertussis'. Yes, I also cede that the study says those vaccinated with DTP have a '5-fold higher mortality than being unvaccinated', but this is a separate debate and issue on the ethics of such vaccinations. Is the risk of such worth it, to prevent the death of children? This comes down to a matter of subjective ethics more-so than anything.

I couldn't find anything about the DPT vaccine being 'pushed on unsuspecting African babies'. It seems that this 'journal' has conflated one vaccine for another, as I found claims for a meningitis vaccine apparently being 'pushed'. Again, another example of the negligence apparent within this journal.
This was debunked. The article finds the sources of the claims made.

Moreover, in unauthorised clinical trials Bill Gates funded NGO PATH killed tribal girls in India and got away with it.
[end of excerpt]
These aren't findings. This 'raft of evidence' literally has 'alleged' in the title - there's nothing definite. If there is so much evidence, of which is so strong, it would be a lot more than alleged.
Additionally, if he had been doing so badly, I don't think the Indian Prime Minister would have told Gates in a call how he appreciated the work the foundation was doing, in 2020.

Again, they've misled the source of their article. The paper of which they have linked in their mention of 'clinical trials' speaks not of the deaths sustained, but that the NGO didn't file the proper documentation necessary under Indian law. The paper states that much of the issues of documentation stems from the Government itself, and that its legislation needs to be strengthened - as the paper's primary focus is about NGO's being involved with healthcare within developing countries. The main point of the article is not that there were human rights abuses, but that owing to the weak governmental regimes, there is the potential.
"While claims of human rights abuses resulting from these trials across Africa may be unsupported, the trials had the same potential for abuse as in India because of the weak legal regime governing trials in these countries. In fact, an analysis of national laws across relevant African countries shows that they have a generally less developed legal system governing clinical trials than in India, so the potential for abuse is even greater. Thus, an analysis of the national laws across these African countries hosting the Gates Foundation funded trials is still necessary to illustrate the very weak laws and the ease through which potential abuse can happen,"

I don't think either of us will find an apology. He doesn't owe one.

The horse dewormer is ivermectin
Thank you for that. As I said, I couldn't remember the name and all I could recall on the medicine was that it was referred to as a parasitic for horses.
Perhaps it does work.

As for the article, it's a little bit misleading. He wasn't dying, he was on a respirator with 'more than 50% chance'. A rather vague estimate, all in all. So perhaps the ivermectin did save him - or perhaps it was the respirator, which he was never taken off of. You cannot definitively conclude his recovery was solely down to ivermectin - if you gave him calpol before, only for him to recover, I don't think people would go saying that calpol is a miracle covid drug.
Perhaps it does work, but there's no studies. I found this one from July, which concluded that "current very low- to low-certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent COVID-19. The completed studies are small and few are considered high quality". Until there's substantive evidence, I will remain sceptical, and it's clear why hospitals will refuse to use it.
If it has worked for people, that's great. But one also has to consider that it could also be down to a variety of factors, unless there's a case of someone using only ivermectin whilst having a low survivability rate (particularly if they're amongst the older generations).



Out of curiosity, do you read and find the sources of what you read? These articles are rife with misleading statements which the sources contradict in some form or another. Not a single one holds any credibility.
 
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@Rit4lin -

On Gates. I actually am not yet finished with the documentary, but I am finding it useful. Gate's money is involved in facilitating the ID'ing of every person on earth. He's all about control.

As to the 496,000 paralyzed Indians alleged event, I thought it was old news so I just internet searched it and submitted the one I did. The search outputted an endless stream of factchecks. Now, I already know that all too often factcheck sites have been debunked -and- the payroll of some exposed (Soros backed and other clearly agenda-driven backers). When I see a plethora of fact checks, I smell shit so shitty I know something is up.

Gates is peripheral to covid and so I am just going to let it go. By the way, the alleged occurrence of the 496,000 is 2000 to 2017.

As to Kennedy, your discussion of him seems ad hominesh to me. I did not use the site I did because Kennedy was mentioned and so if you are convinced he is some uninformed buffoon, cool by me, but I think such a claim is absurd. But too peripheral to covid for me to care to prop him up.

Where you really got me is your assessment of the patient with covid. The guy was extremely sick and had been on the respirator. There was a court hearing on Nov. 5. The hospital defied the judge's order on Nov. 6 and 7. So, this guy must have been on the respirator at least three days. And by the way, this is alleged to be physician testimony.

At a court hearing on November 5, Judge Paul M. Fullerton of the Circuit Court of Dodge County said that one doctor who testified described the patient, Sun Ng, as “basically on his deathbed,” with a 10 to 15 percent chance of surviving.

You cite another source claiming he had more than a 50% chance of survival. Why did you dismiss the above? Did it not square with your clear bias?

Regardless, the guy was on a respirator at least 3 days. When his treatment is changed to include ivermectin, he has a rapid recovery. And your perception of this information is maybe it was the respirator, maybe it was the ivermectin.

I would like to understand why you dismiss TIME as a variable. Does it not favor the ivermectin explanation since it squares perfectly with time?

If you were more free of your bias, you would be investigating ivermectin with the awareness that MAYBE it works. And you would information-gather until you were settled. But, I highly doubt this is the case.

However, the ramifications are intense. What if it does work? If so, why is it condemned? (One example is Joe Rogan who had himself treated with it and the mainline media said he took a "horse dewormer.") Actually, he did not. He took the ivermectin for human use.

Does this not raise intense red flags?

There is no early treatment protocol for covid from the orthodox camp (governments, NIH, WHO). But if ivermectin works, how can this be?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._200_members_of_congress_with_ivermectin.html

Podcasters Joe Rogan and Michael Malice discussed last week why the corporate press continues to dismiss ways doctors can treat Covid-19 aside from vaccination.

Rogan said that Dr. Pierre Kory from the Front Line Critical Care Covid group treated him and hundreds of members of Congress with monoclonal antibodies, prednisone, z-pak, NAD, vitamins, and ivermectin.

"By the way, 200 Congresspeople have been treated with Ivermectin for Covid. Google that. You can probably find that in Dr. Pierre Kory's Twitter page," Rogan said. "Before there were vaccines, this was a common off-label treatment for Covid."


Isn't that interesting? The powers that be have no early protocol for us common folk. They give us a different song, but which one do they sing? Ivermectin, vitamins, etc.

I would bet my last dollar, your personal pursuit of truth around covid would never have come up with the above information about Congress all the while its potential significance with respect to what it might say about the alleged pandemic could be nuclear in scope.

Now, why would you have never known?

For the same reason you cite the 50% figure, but dismiss another doctor's testimony of 10-15%. For the same reason you dismiss time as a variable that obviously favors the idea that the man's altered treatment is the reason he enjoyed a rapid recovery.

Your bias is off the charts and disallows you from having any ability to know truth.
 
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@o2b
To begin with, what's the point in engaging if you don't even reciprocate? I want your views on everything I laid out for you. You're not replying to the points I made about the sources of these 'articles' being contrary to what the 'articles' are stating. How numerous sites or fact-checkers have done the research and dismissed these claims. How there is WHO data on the number of mutated vaccine cases for polio in the twenty one years. I'm not biased. I am speaking on what can be observed and read.
I've provided sources for every claim or argument I made.

all too often factcheck sites have been debunked -and- the payroll of some exposed (Soros backed and other clearly agenda-driven backers)
Source?

Gates is peripheral to covid and so I am just going to let it go
How is this not bias? You've been presented with numerous sources on Gates' involvement, yet choose not to comment on them as it doesn't align to your own view? Why should I bother responding to your constant bombardment of information if you don't even show the same level of respect back to my argument?

As to Kennedy, your discussion of him seems ad hominesh to me. I did not use the site I did because Kennedy was mentioned and so if you are convinced he is some uninformed buffoon, cool by me, but I think such a claim is absurd. But too peripheral to covid for me to care to prop him up.
It is not ad hominem, let's not go down that strawman route. He is a man in some position of authority, hence it is only right to look into his credentials on what allows him to speak as to the matter of healthcare. He has no expert or verifiably educated knowledge. Why else would he think he has a voice or platform, if not for making use of the reputation associated with his family name? How is exploring the credibility of a public speaker, ad hominem? What of what I said has no basis as to why he holds no credibility?
Plus, I didn't hear your view on why the information he shares, which is apparently important to all of humanity, is only accessible after buying his book and lining his pockets.

Where you really got me is your assessment of the patient with covid. The guy was extremely sick and had been on the respirator. There was a court hearing on Nov. 5. The hospital defied the judge's order on Nov. 6 and 7. So, this guy must have been on the respirator at least three days. And by the way, this is alleged to be physician testimony.

At a court hearing on November 5, Judge Paul M. Fullerton of the Circuit Court of Dodge County said that one doctor who testified described the patient, Sun Ng, as “basically on his deathbed,” with a 10 to 15 percent chance of surviving.

You cite another source claiming he had more than a 50% chance of survival. Why did you dismiss the above? Did it not square with your clear bias?
Because one shouldn't take one person's opinion or view on matters of healthcare. That is bias. You've also misread - or not even bothered to properly read everything I said and linked for you - as the over 50% figure isn't his survivability rate, but his chance of dying was more than 50%. So was it between 50%-60%? More than 60? Why not say if it was more than 60? At any rate, it's clear he was more probable than not to die. A point I agreed to. My contention was how vague it was, and the room for error or survivability.

It's also funny how you say that you don't trust experts or professionals - especially teams of them - yet expect me to take the word of one doctor quoted in your article as bible instead of seeing if there were any other views on the patient's survivability, just because it serves your argument. So which one is it? Trust them enough to take one professional's opinion as the word of a God, or look for other viewpoints (as is commonly the case for people receiving care)? It seems like I actually distrust experts more than you do.
Can you at least read what I write or link, before replying? You're wasting both our time here.

Regardless, the guy was on a respirator at least 3 days. When his treatment is changed to include ivermectin, he has a rapid recovery. And your perception of this information is maybe it was the respirator, maybe it was the ivermectin.

I would like to understand why you dismiss TIME as a variable. Does it not favor the ivermectin explanation since it squares perfectly with time?
Three? Rapid recovery? Your article gives no date on when the doctor was allowed in to the hospital to prescribe the ivermectin, only that he was discharged on the 27th. So going by what's available in your article, let us assume that the hospital complied on the 8th and that's when he was given it. That's 19 days, near three weeks, of being in hospital before being discharged. Not even accounting for the near month of treatment he had been receiving from his admittance in October 14th. A recovery time all in all of 44 days - just over six weeks. That isn't rapid. This is the norm for a lot of covid cases, with the proper treatment. The same article I linked for you says that there would be a hearing on the 19th to hear the status of the patient - his dismissal being eight days later suggests that he was not fully recovered by this date, and needed more time in hospital before being discharged.

I agree time is a variable. Why are you only focusing on the time that fits your agenda?
So no, I do not believe you can put his recovery down solely to ivermectin. Unless you can fulfill my request for an example of a case where someone near-dying of covid received only ivermectin as treatment as they laid in bed. Yet another point of mine you decided to not reply to or acknowledge.

If you were more free of your bias, you would be investigating ivermectin with the awareness that MAYBE it works. And you would information-gather until you were settled. But, I highly doubt this is the case.
Holy shit, did you just skim what I replied to you with?
Perhaps it does work, but there's no studies. I found this one from July, which concluded that "current very low- to low-certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent COVID-19. The completed studies are small and few are considered high quality". Until there's substantive evidence, I will remain sceptical, and it's clear why hospitals will refuse to use it.
If it has worked for people, that's great
I literally explained why I'm sceptical as there's no studies as of yet, and any focused on the medicine are apparently still underway. Perhaps it does work, as I said. But I am not going to be 100% confident in it, until the experts have completed their studies.
Or do you want me to spend even more hours of my time researching just to give you the satisfaction of possibly coming back with the conclusion that yes, it does work? You've not even appeared to give my argument a proper read let alone researching my links and replying to my points. And you want me to do this for you? I want some respect for our views reciprocated here. Either pay attention to, read what I wrote, and reply, or don't respond. All I'm asking for is the same courtesy and time I offered you; this is a bit insulting.

However, the ramifications are intense. What if it does work? If so, why is it condemned? (One example is Joe Rogan who had himself treated with it and the mainline media said he took a "horse dewormer.") Actually, he did not. He took the ivermectin for human use.
Well this is just a regurgitated point. It goes back to the same reply I linked for you just now, and which I provided for you initially. There is no evidence or studies. The healthcare system is not going to use what can be classed as an experimental drug on patients when there is no proof or scientific backing for it, especially when it can open them up to lawsuits.
But yes, the ramifications are immense if it does work, as with any drug proven to work against covid.

There is no early treatment protocol for covid from the orthodox camp (governments, NIH, WHO). But if ivermectin works, how can this be?
No there isn't, because hospitals are concerned with alleviating the symptoms as the body recovers. Why is there no set way of treating it? Because it's a brand new coronavirus which we're still in the grips of as it mutates frequently and aggressively. There won't be a 'universal' treatment (if there even would be such) until we're in the stage whereby the pandemic has subsided and the virus settles.

Isn't that interesting? The powers that be have no early protocol for us common folk. They give us a different song, but which one do they sing? Ivermectin, vitamins, etc.

I would bet my last dollar, your personal pursuit of truth around covid would never have come up with the above information about Congress all the while its potential significance with respect to what it might say about the alleged pandemic could be nuclear in scope.

Now, why would you have never known?

For the same reason you cite the 50% figure, but dismiss another doctor's testimony of 10-15%. For the same reason you dismiss time as a variable that obviously favors the idea that the man's altered treatment is the reason he enjoyed a rapid recovery.

Your bias is off the charts and disallows you from having any ability to know truth.
Holy shit, they can take what medicine they like. If I wanted it if I were ill, I could probably get my hands on it. But why do you constantly go by this view that an untrialled drug with no evidence or conclusive tests by healthcare experts, as far as I've heard, is going to be rolled out on a national or international scale? Where the hospitals and healthcare professionals are responsible for the treatments, not the patient themselves? Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Are you reading what I'm writing?

The 50% figure was not his survivability. R. e. a. d. This is just beginning to piss me off, you've evidently not given me the same time and respect I've given you. I replied to every single article or citation you used, yet I'm not getting the same treatment. Just a new bombardment of information to have to refute and reply to.

Now that final line is ad hominem, as you're evidently just going with the belief of 'Rit is biased' instead of giving my arguments any due diligence. At no point did I ever address your character or beliefs - another example of the lack of respect from your end.
I think we're done here if this is how you wish to engage. Disgraceful, really.
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society...-conspiracy-theorist-5g-covid-plandemic-qanon

I feel like I've kind of switched gears somewhat recently and have been trying to engage with o2b and Larry using pre-sauasian... And it's gotten us all nowhere lol. Because neither are willing to openly discuss an origin of their beliefs. I think there's good reason why neither can. Because it requires examining why you believe something. Perhaps the plot holes are then revealed. But I'd continue to push for that anyway because I think when you actually debate with people who believe conspiracy theories and try to offer factual and credible information, they just dig their heels deeper. They haven't begun to question themselves yet. It's something we all must be able to do to understand the world. We should all be able to examine what we know or what we think we know and how we have come to know it. Why we believe what we believe. The irony is that the conspiracy theory view is a very dogmatic one. They challenge everyone else to be informed and to think outside of the box but they can't really examine what or why they believe what they do. Bill Gates wants to lower global population by murdering people with a vaccine. And it's gospel. Why? Well we can't talk about that, lol.

Douglas advises that you make the effort to understand the origins of their beliefs, a point of view that Cook also holds. “You want someone to articulate what they’re thinking, and why they’re thinking it, in a non-confrontational way,” he says. When describing the theories, they may have already noticed some of the contradictions and holes in the logic. If not, you will at least be in a more informed position to start a constructive discussion.
 
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I would bet my last dollar

You lost, now give me the dollah so I can buy me and the guys some candy
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{sigh}

I worked Sunday and my 63 year old body worked out Monday and Tuesday (a workout likely less than 1% of folks my age do.)

I am beyond mentally, physically, and emotionally grungy.

@Rit4lin - I retract and apologize.

I think our main points of disagreement are 1)each of our perceived knowledge-bases on the subject and 2)our sense of the best methodology for truth-seeking. And I am ~95+% sure what I construed to be bias on your part is much more likely #2.

Governments and corporations have so far exceeded the "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" slogan (though I have given them much more than 2 blatant acts of deception and criminality) that I have little use for what governments and corporations say.
 
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Here's an example of a fact check site.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/m...by-former-cdc-director-with-1-9b-in-jj-stock/

April 27, 2021 (LifeSiteNews) — A U.S. congressman has highlighted the fact that a Facebook-partnered website’s COVID-19/Vaccination “fact-checking” project is funded by a group that holds $1.9 billion in Johnson & Johnson stock and is headed by the former director of the Centers for Disease Control.

U.S. Rep. Thomas Massie of Kentucky tweeted Saturday, “NOTHING TO SEE HERE … Former director of CDC is now CEO of the foundation that funds FACTCHECK.org’s vaccine fact checking program. Roughly 15% of said foundation’s assets are J&J stock.”

“Bless your heart if you think factcheck.org is an unbiased source of vaccine information,” he continued.
[end of excerpt]

If anyone feels like it, there is much more damning information in the article.

Fact checkers all too often are disinfo sites whose purpose is to push narratives they have a vested interest in.
 
As to the Covid survivor, I did mention it was coincidental. I spent Thanksgiving in the very city the man was hospitalized, Naperville, Illinois.

Anyway, here is something I overlooked (from the article I posted).

In the end, as usual, the ivermectin worked and Mr. Ng has since recovered from COVID-19 after being on his deathbed. He was eventually discharged from the hospital on November 27.

And I do acquiesce that such a large discharge date must allow for the possibility that his recovery may have not been due to the ivermectin. But with my perceived knowledgebase, it is extremely unlikely the recovery was not due to the ivermectin.

Anyway...

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/i...ing-life-of-father-hospitalized-with-covid-19

On Nov. 8, the family won a legal battle to gain approval to administer the controversial drug to 71-year-old Sun Ng, who had been on a ventilator since October 19.
...
After further legal wrangling and the doctor presenting a negative COVID test, the treatment — a series of 15 daily shots — began in the evening of Nov. 8.

The Ng's attorney claimed Sun showed signs of improvement almost immediately.

So he was on the ventilator from Oct 19 to Nov 8 when ivermectin began to be used (21 days).

Some some quickies with my commentary.

1. Over 100 members of Congress resorted to ivermectin.
But they are silent about this fact. They do not inform those who they represent. Why? Because they are not supposed to.

2. Uttar Pradesh, population 270 million declared there is no more covid thanks to 100% deployment of ivermectin. Its vaccination rate if ~5%.
We are not told because we are not supposed to know.

3. Hospitals suppress ivermectin use. Doctors using ivermectin are vilified.
They are following orders.

Meanwhile...

https://vaccineimpact.com/2021/2809...w-the-shots-were-not-safe-for-pregnant-women/

2,809 Dead Babies in VAERS Following COVID Shots as New Documents Prove Pfizer, the FDA, and the CDC Knew the Shots Were Not Safe for Pregnant Women

The latest data dump into the U.S. Government’s Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) happened yesterday (12/3/21) and covers data through 11/26/2021.

There are now 927,740 cases reported to VAERS following COVID-19 shots for the past 11 months, out of the total of 1,782,453 cases in the entire VAERS database filed for the past 30+ years.

That means that 52% off ALL vaccine adverse reaction cases in VAERS for the past 30+ years have been reported in the last 11 months following the COVID-19 shots.

In addition, 68% of all deaths following vaccines reported in VAERS for the past 30+ years have been reported in the last 11 months following the COVID-19 shots.

We are on pace to see 21,307 deaths reported in the first year following the experimental COVID-19 shots, while the average yearly deaths reported after FDA-approved vaccines for the past 30+ years is 305 deaths.

That is an astounding 86% increase in reported deaths following the COVID-19 shots, a 70X increase over the average reported deaths following vaccinations for the past 30+ years!

  • FDA-approved vaccines: 305 deaths per year
  • COVID-19 EUA shots: 21,307 deaths per year
And as Dr. Jessica Rose has previously reported, the under-reporting factor in VAERS for the COVID-19 shots is 41X, as a conservative number, which means that at least 800,812 people have now died following COVID-19 shots based on the VAERS data.

Most, if not all, of those deaths are being reported in the pharma-owned corporate media as “COVID” deaths, as there are now more recorded “COVID deaths” for the first 11 months of 2021 than there were for the entire year in 2020, when there were no COVID vaccines until December. (Source.)
[end of excerpt]

(It's a bioweapon.)
 
@Rit4lin - I retract and apologize.

I think our main points of disagreement are 1)each of our perceived knowledge-bases on the subject and 2)our sense of the best methodology for truth-seeking. And I am ~95+% sure what I construed to be bias on your part is much more likely #2.

Governments and corporations have so far exceeded the "Fool me once, shame on you, feel me twice, shame on me" slogan (though I have given them much more than 2 blatant acts of deception and criminality) that I have little use for what governments and corporations say.
I accept your apology. No harm done.

However, I will have to bow out of this conversation for now, unless you at some point in the future reply to my previous arguments line by line with your own. Whilst I thank you for the link to the FactCheck patronage, I won't be accessing the one to do with Gates until there is an ongoing discussion whereby you examine that which I've provided, and your arguments are representative of such an approach. All I ask for is the same courtesy I've extended to you. Until I receive this, I'm not going to effectively waste my time talking at you rather than with you, and gaining nothing in return.
 
I accept your apology. No harm done.

However, I will have to bow out of this conversation for now, unless you at some point in the future reply to my previous arguments line by line with your own. Whilst I thank you for the link to the FactCheck patronage, I won't be accessing the one to do with Gates until there is an ongoing discussion whereby you examine that which I've provided, and your arguments are representative of such an approach. All I ask for is the same courtesy I've extended to you. Until I receive this, I'm not going to effectively waste my time talking at you rather than with you, and gaining nothing in return.
That's cool.

Like I said, Gates is so peripheral to me.

My understanding is the jab is a bioweapon and while children are so unaffected by covid, some countries are actually wanting to jab our children.

This is the greatest evil ever perpetrated on humankind.

That's why Gates is relatively very unimportant to me.
 
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There is zero point to any of thi
@efromm
My qualifications, level of education and personal information has nothing to do with this. All I did was ask you to explain a position you assertively took, and somehow you've taken it as a personal affront and appear to have a vendetta against me - at least, you appear to be hostile. I won't be 'shov[ing]' my opinion anywhere.
This sort of attitude over a mere request of mine is unnecessary and undeserving. As such, whilst I'm sorry to hear about your son and offer my deepest sympathies, I'm not going to engage with you any further with this sort of behaviour being displayed.

At the very least, thank you for the articles - they provide a new perspective of sorts, even if they do not cover everything in my prior request.
Why hide? What’s the fear of revealing who you are? You think your invisible because of a screen name? I told you to go look it up. The vid is on YouTube. You also said you would not accept opinion pieces on gates. So your setting the standards of how you will respond or debate. Instead of just letting people say what they want you want all opinions fact checked. You must know that the internet is chock full of lies. And to point to a web site and say that they have the facts is very hard to prove. I’m not going to their place and inspecting their evidence. And neither are you. As far as I know your not a journalist. Neither are you a scientist. We don’t know who you are. Or what your qualifications are to disseminate information. I never went after you in a post until you decided to call me out. And then proceed to tell me that you won’t accept certain evidence. And you get to make the rules on fact finding. There is a lot more to mr gates than meets the eye. Go have a look for yourself. I don’t need convincing.
 
I thought Kenny G was the greatest evil ever perpetuated on humankind
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This made me cry laughing. My mother subjected me to Kenny G for years. This gif makes my ears want to bleed. :tearsofjoy:
Thank you for the laugh.
 
From:
https://www.covidtruths.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/The-FauciCOVID-19-Dossier2532.pdf

35 U.S.C. § 101

From Justice Clarence Thomas’ opinion for the majority

Section 101 of the Patent Act provides: "Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful ... composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title." 35 U.S.C. § 101.

We have "long held that this provision contains an important implicit exception[:] Laws of nature, natural phenomena, and abstract ideas are not patentable." Mayo, 566 U.S., at ___, 132 S.Ct., at 1293 (internal quotation marks and brackets omitted). Rather, "`they are the basic tools of scientific and technological work'" that lie beyond the domain of patent protection. Id., at ___, 132 S.Ct., at 1293. As the Court has explained, without this exception, there would be considerable danger that the grant of patents would "tie up" the use of such tools and thereby "inhibit future innovation premised upon them." Id., at ___, 132 S.Ct., at 1301. This would be at odds with the very point of patents, which exist to promote creation. Diamond v. Chakrabarty, 447 U.S. 303, 309, 100 S.Ct. 2204, 65 L.Ed.2d 144 (1980) (Products of nature are not created, and "`manifestations... of nature [are] free to all men and reserved exclusively to none'").3

In their majority opinion in 2013, the U.S. Supreme Court made it abundantly clear that the Court had “long held” that nature was not patentable. Merely isolating DNA does not constitute patentable subject matter. In their patent, the CDC made false and misleading claims to the United States Patent & Trademark Office by stating that, “A newly isolated human coronavirus has been identified as the causative agent of SARS, and is termed SARS-CoV.”4 No “causal” data was provided for this statement.

When they filed their patent application on April 25, 2003 their first claim (and the only one that survived to ultimate issuance over the objection of the patent examiner in 2006 and 2007) was the genome for SARS CoV.

While this patent is clearly illegal under 35 U.S.C. §101, not only did the CDC insist on its granting over non-final and final rejections, but they also continued to pay maintenance fees on the patent after the 2013 Supreme Court decision confirmed that it was illegal.

In addition, the CDC patented the detection of SARS CoV using a number of methods including reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR). With this patent, they precluded anyone outside of their licensed or conspiring interest from legally engaging in independent verification of their claim that they had isolated a virus, that it was a causative agent for SARS, or that any therapy could be effective against the reported pathogen.

It is important to note that the CDC’s patent applications were also rejected in non-final and final rejections for ineligibility under 35 U.S.C. § 102 for being publicly disclosed prior to their own filing. In the first non-final rejection, the USPTO stated that the CDC’s genome was published in four Genbank accession entries on April 14, 18, and 21, 2003 with identity ranging from 96.8% to 99.9% identical sequences.5 Dr. Fauci knew, and failed to disclose evidence that the CDC patent was illegal, based on work he had funded in the years leading up to the SARS outbreak.

After seeking an illegal patent, petitioning to override the decision of an examiner to reject it, and ultimately prevailing with the patent’s grant, the CDC lied to the public by stating they were controlling the patent so that it would be “publicly available”.6 Tragically, this public statement is falsified by the simple fact that their own publication in Genbank had, in fact, made it public domain and thereby unpatentable. This fact, confirmed by patent examiners, was overridden by CDC in a paid solicitation to override the law.

While not covered under 35 U.S.C. §101, Dr. Fauci’s abuse of the patent law is detailed below. Of note, however, is his willful and deceptive use of the term “vaccine” in patents and public pronouncements to pervert the meaning of the term for the manipulation of the public.

In the 1905 Jacobson v. Mass case, the court was clear that a PUBLIC BENEFIT was required for a vaccine to be mandated. Neither Pfizer nor Moderna have proved a disruption of transmission. In Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), the court held that the context for their opinion rested on the following principle:

“This court has more than once recognized it as a fundamental principle that 'persons and property are subjected to all kinds of restraints and burdens in order to secure the general comfort, health, and prosperity of the state...”

The Moderna and Pfizer “alleged vaccine” trials have explicitly acknowledged that their gene therapy technology has no impact on viral infection or transmission whatsoever and merely conveys to the recipient the capacity to produce an S1 spike protein endogenously by the introduction of a synthetic mRNA sequence. Therefore, the basis for the Massachusetts statute and the Supreme Court’s determination is moot in this case.

Further, the USPTO, in its REJECTION of Anthony Fauci's HIV vaccine made the following statement supporting their rejection of his bogus "invention"

(see attached image)

3 Association for Molecular Pathology v. Myriad Genetics, Inc., 569 U.S. 576 (2013) 4 U.S. Patent 7,220,852
5 USPTO Non-Final Rejection File #10822904, September 7, 2006, page 4.
6 https://apnews.com/article/145b4e8d156cddc93e996ae52dc24ec0

rejection.jpg