Does Yahweh/Jesus live by the Golden Rule? | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

Does Yahweh/Jesus live by the Golden Rule?

Hey guys great topic. Approaching this question from a primarily ecumenical and eschatologically prismatic way, <goes back to read first few posts...Pin gets called Christian scum...something about 007/scissors...>


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AJ_ said:
Hey guys great topic. Approaching this question from a primarily ecumenical and eschatologically prismatic way, <goes back to read first few posts...Pin gets called Christian scum...something about 007/scissors...>


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:tearsofjoy: This is the correct way to walk away from this train wreck of a thread.
 
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John K said:
There is no simple answer to this. Jesus, living as a man, does live by it and encourages others to do so too. It's meaningless to apply it to the relationship between God and people though - how on earth could I treat God in the way I would like Her to treat me? I can love Her to the best of my ability, but the love She gives back to me in return I lack the power and capacity to reciprocate.
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Ah. A thinker as compared to sheeple. Nice to meet you.

You say Jesus as a man does live by the Golden Rule, and I see some of what is attributed to Jesus as doing that but I also see not doing so in some of his policies. Let me highlight his no divorce and substitutional punishment views.

He does not believe in divorce for anyone and chastised Moses for allowing it only for men and ignores that that makes both men and women have to stay in loveless relationships. I hope you thumbs down on this as I do. Love is the greatest good and to deny us that is evil.

You are a male and yet use "her" to designate god. Laudable as I believe in full equality for women, which religions mostly reject, and while I put no god or goddess above me, I defer to the law of the sea and put women and children ahead of myself, should the need arise. To fight evil, I am also quick to try to get the misogynous to change their inferior ways.

"I lack the power and capacity to reciprocate."

I do not see that.

John K said:
There is bound to be a discontinuity between a Gnostic and a Christian perspective here, depending a little on which particular form of Gnosticism we are considering.
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Most Gnostic Christians have named Yahweh as a demiurge in our myths. As moral thinkers, we all reject a genocidal god as being good. All moeal thinkers will.

John K said:
From a Christian perspective, Jesus as Son has restored the connection between fallen people and an infinitely good God, who is in Herself the definition of good.
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True. They all plan to ride their scapegoat into heaven, but due to the immorality of them abdicating their responsibility for their sins, will end in hell. I have a longer answer for them but I do not think you need it. Do let me know though if you do not see the immorality and I will fetch it for you.

John K said:
This has put the whole of creation back on course for the good purpose that She created it.
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LOL. Christians have no faith in their super god and see man as able to thwart him. I have a piece that I plan to open an O.P. to show this. have a preview and opine if you like.

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Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.

They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you have faith?

If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.

Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves all?
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John K said:
From various Gnostic perspectives, the material world is the faulty creation of an imperfect god who traps the spirits of people in an evil physical existence - escape from this is very difficult and involves an utter rejection of the god of this world, and a perilous spiritual journey to a different plane of existence. Each of these world views is bound to seem very misguided and wrong to the other.
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Here, let me divide our myth from the reality we see.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
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The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

John K said:
It's quite possible for you as a Gnostic to approach the god of this world with a critical judgement - that's essential to your beliefs and to do otherwise would trap you in this world of deceit. For a Christian to judge God is a nonsense because it implies there is an ethical system that transcends Her - this is impossible. That doesn't mean that Christians can't use a critical approach to understand and love God better - that's a critique of people and what they say and do, not of Her though.

Personally, I think a lot of the problems that people have when trying to grapple with religion is that we don't really try and find God directly for ourselves - if we do, the experience is beyond describing and makes all the agonising about this or that belief system superfluous. And when that happens, we can see that most of the many ways people set about exploring their spirituality converge on the same unspeakably glorious reality - they just come at it from different directions.
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No argument on this last.

One point. Christians do not follow the scriptures that tell them to judge all things and hold to the good. They are moral cowards.

Apologies for this long reply. After all the non-thinkers I have replied to today, you got me all excited.:smiley::smiley:

Regards
DL
 
Ren said:
It looks like you had got it right :D



This is true, and science supports this, but this is actually no proof that our moral frameworks themselves are or must be consequentialist.

Your argument relies on the appeal to nature, which is a fallacy.
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Nature got you to where you are.

Strange that you do not trust it.

Regards
DL
 
Pin said:
@Ren

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Says one who idol worships a genocidal god.

Genocide is good. Who knew. say Heil mien Furer to your god for me, in hell.

You forget that Christianity was the heretic in the beginning. It still would be without your inquisitions and witch burning.

Be proud that murder is all you have as you cannot do apologetics for your satanic religion.

Now all you can do is throw insults like the other Christian dummies here.

Regards
DL
 
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