Do you think you're owed anything in this life?
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athenian200
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The only thing I believe I'm owed is justice. For instance, if someone steals from me, or injures me, they should be punished.
I believe this also extends to being given an opportunity to contribute to society and thereby earn enough to survive (I don't mean live well, just enough to eat and get basic shelter).
I feel that all people are owed justice and survival by virtue of living in a society, contributing to it, and abiding by the law. However, not all people get what they are owed, and some people get what they are owed and then some.
I believe this also extends to being given an opportunity to contribute to society and thereby earn enough to survive (I don't mean live well, just enough to eat and get basic shelter).
I feel that all people are owed justice and survival by virtue of living in a society, contributing to it, and abiding by the law. However, not all people get what they are owed, and some people get what they are owed and then some.
Reon
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Nope. My life is a miracle and the standards I'm used to are just a product of the society I live in. If I was born somewhere else, justice, hope, and all that could be completely foreign concepts to me. I like to think that I'm not owed anything in life but that I, instead, owe it to 'life' to improve the conditions of the living.
Siamese cat
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By somebody else mostly no. For some time I did actually thought that I'm owed respect and fair play simply because I give that to others, but now I know not to expect it all the time and that no one should owe that to me.
I kind of already gave and answer to this previously.
Engaging in that kind of thought process, in my opinion, one only will get disappointed, and frankly no one should be owed anything by anyone. One should learn to go through life fighting for ones happiness and fulfillment because none of that matter if it's not obtained by fight with life. I'm kind of drifting into some of my personal philosophies about life and the purpose of it, so I'll stop now.
athenian200
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This is very upsetting, that no one cares about justice, and just rattles off about how no one is owed anything, how everything is justified, and you have to fight for something worthless and get nothing for it, and be grateful for it?! Because you're owed nothing, so it's okay if you get nothing and lose everything, no matter what you do?
I hate life so much that I want to wipe out the entire planet. Life is so disgusting I can't stomach it anymore.
Life is so disgusting and flawed that it has no right to exist.
I hate life so much that I want to wipe out the entire planet. Life is so disgusting I can't stomach it anymore.
Life is so disgusting and flawed that it has no right to exist.
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Siamese cat
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Nobody here said that any bad deed is justified, where did you find that?
And what is worthless to fight for?
Gaze
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Reon
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I didn't state that I didn't care about Justice. I also noticed that no one said that particular line either. I'm lucky in the sense that, in most cases, I can make it so that justice is done correctly (Or attempt to). In places around the world, people do not have the luxury. Should they have that? Of course. Are they owed that? No. Life doesn't come with guarantees.
That's justice, right?
athenian200
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It's quite simple.
If people are not owed justice, then bad deeds are justified. It means that there's nothing wrong with slavery. It means there's nothing wrong with theft. It means there's nothing wrong with abuse or cruelty. It means you have no right to complain about anything bad in any amount, and have to be grateful for every last crumb of anything good that you get.
If life does not owe people justice, then that only leaves two possibilities. Either no one deserves justice, or only those who have accomplished a lot deserve it (by having made themselves valuable) while others don't. Probably the latter. It means that people who have particular, subjectively defined personal merits have "earned" justice, while everyone else has not, because people are not owed justice by default.
What's worthless to fight for? Well... if we're not owed justice, that means we have to fight very, very hard just to barely survive in a world where we're all mistreated, and we rarely ever get anything good, no matter what we do. That kind of life is almost worthless.
Forgive me if I find the idea a little upsetting.
Which is exactly what I can't abide. It would be one thing if you said that it was owed to people, but that they were unlikely to receive it. Saying that it isn't owed at all... is like saying it's perfectly okay that people live the way I described above.
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Siamese cat
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Yup, and you could just as easily say that if something is inherently owed to people very soon it would lose it's value.
I tend not to think in such black and white perspectives, I need that gray area because in my opinion most of one's life happens right there. I do understand your view in a way because for a long long time I was like you.
I don't think that if justice was owed to anybody we would today have such beautiful works of art, literature, music peaces... From great sufferings beautiful things grow and that doesn't justify cruelty it just makes it a little easier to handle.
What is there to have if you don't have to fight for what matters to you? That way people would live such dull lives.
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To say we are owed something requires either defining rights or universal truths.
Justice is the enforcement of rights. So what rights do we have?
What are the reasons we have these rights? From a philosophical standpoint you could argue perspectives of rights/ethics for a long time. Those stem from metaphysical/ontological origins. No one can seem to agree with that, so no one can really agree on proper implementation of justice. Different societies have different views due to different metaphysical philosophies.
There is one thing guaranteed, and I expect it, that is death.
Edit: When you are part of a society, and that society is healthy, then it is usually ok to have expectations of justice, because those are inherent to the well-being of society and you have somewhat of a guarantee that the society will work to enact that justice. Then again, you can't always count on that to work either.
Really the only guaranteed sort of justice I could ever really comprehend would be of the divine nature.
Justice is the enforcement of rights. So what rights do we have?
What are the reasons we have these rights? From a philosophical standpoint you could argue perspectives of rights/ethics for a long time. Those stem from metaphysical/ontological origins. No one can seem to agree with that, so no one can really agree on proper implementation of justice. Different societies have different views due to different metaphysical philosophies.
There is one thing guaranteed, and I expect it, that is death.
Edit: When you are part of a society, and that society is healthy, then it is usually ok to have expectations of justice, because those are inherent to the well-being of society and you have somewhat of a guarantee that the society will work to enact that justice. Then again, you can't always count on that to work either.
Really the only guaranteed sort of justice I could ever really comprehend would be of the divine nature.
athenian200
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Umm... it sounds like I failed to understand the question, then.
You seem to be talking about what life actually gives you, which can range from nothing to almost everything. When you spoke of what was "owed," I assumed that could include things that people may not actually receive in their life. Had you asked me, "what is guaranteed in life," then my answer would have also been "death" or "nothing." I really don't see how what people are guaranteed as being the same as what they're owed.
It's just that I can't see anything good coming out of the assumption that no one is owed justice, or that only some people are. If we assume that we are owed justice, but that we'll only receive it if we act in certain ways towards others, it encourages us to behave in fair ways.
I'm not even talking about fighting for what matters to them. It seems as though if there's no justice, a person could fight for the rest of their lives, achieve nothing, and it would be acceptable because no matter what they do, they're owed nothing. It makes fighting pointless, because you could fight all you wanted... and get absolutely nothing, and it would be fair because there are no standards for a person who is not owed justice.
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