i agree with you, that's my hunch too. an educated guess is as close as we'll get to "knowing"
Do you believe in Karma?
- Thread starter TinyBubbles
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i agree with you, that's my hunch too. an educated guess is as close as we'll get to "knowing"
There is no reason for karma to exist, it would serve absolutely no purpose in natural law. For Karma to exist, an Objective Good and evil must exist, which it probably doesn't, As well as a god that actually gives a shit about what we do on this planet.
Let's take humans out of the picture for a second, so should something bad happen to a lion for killing other animals? Why? It is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing, sustaining it's own life by destroying others.
Now let's take all animals, as well as life in general out of the picture. Now all we have is chemicals, stars, planets, asteroids floating through space. Should something bad happen to the asteroid for colliding into some moon? Should a black hole be punished for sucking so much light into it?
Why should nature be punished for simply being nature?
Let's take humans out of the picture for a second, so should something bad happen to a lion for killing other animals? Why? It is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing, sustaining it's own life by destroying others.
Now let's take all animals, as well as life in general out of the picture. Now all we have is chemicals, stars, planets, asteroids floating through space. Should something bad happen to the asteroid for colliding into some moon? Should a black hole be punished for sucking so much light into it?
Why should nature be punished for simply being nature?
I would guess, if you took a poll a larger "half" the INFJs would agree that it exists or that they are willing to accept that it exists because folks they respect believe it. The slightly smaller "half" would balk at the "spooky force at a distance" nature of Karma.
For me, its like back rubs and mail, you don't give, you don't get.
For me, its like back rubs and mail, you don't give, you don't get.
I don't believe in the stereotypical karma. I believe in force equilibrium, and that is truly in a mechanical sense of our reality.
I do good deeds, I don't go out of my way to do them, but if someone is in obvious need of assistance and it isn't that big of a deal, then I oblige. I don't necessarily expect anything in return. However, through repeated assistance to others, each event heightens the statistical probability that someone will return that favor. Usually someone that returns a favor like that will become a true friend indeed.
Friends or love like that can change your entire perspective, which might then lead to a formation further abstract ideas.
So, I believe in cause and effect; although it is only probability. Some people that have dedicated themselves to great deeds will die without the recognition or reimbursement (spiritual, emotional, resourceful, etc) they deserve and those that don't necessarily deserve it will get too much.
I do good deeds, I don't go out of my way to do them, but if someone is in obvious need of assistance and it isn't that big of a deal, then I oblige. I don't necessarily expect anything in return. However, through repeated assistance to others, each event heightens the statistical probability that someone will return that favor. Usually someone that returns a favor like that will become a true friend indeed.
Friends or love like that can change your entire perspective, which might then lead to a formation further abstract ideas.
So, I believe in cause and effect; although it is only probability. Some people that have dedicated themselves to great deeds will die without the recognition or reimbursement (spiritual, emotional, resourceful, etc) they deserve and those that don't necessarily deserve it will get too much.
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Unless you are in politics, then you can seemingly get away with almost whatever you want. They have that shit down to a science. That is more about distancing yourself from accountability I suppose.
Unfortunately, those that speak the loudest get the most attention in most cases.
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I don't think Karma requires a God, for it to exist in a kind of mystical sense all that is required is for our actions to effect some kind of an unperceivable natural law of reciprocity.
It kind of surprised me when you said karma would "serve no purpose in natural law" because absent a greater reality, natural law would sever no purpose either.
If we go that route, I suppose we could ask why there has to be a reason for Karma? Like gravity, or the mysterious the action of photons in quantum super-position, or any other force acting on the world, maybe Karma just is.
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I do not believe in any of those things.
But I am inclined to "do good", which means, to help other humans and life forms as I can. That is done, because I'm driven to do it, and repulsed if I don't do it. Which I have learned; presumably from my family.
I do not expect anything "in return" for what I do. I do not believe in repayment or contracts. In my view, some people are more inclined to view existence in the form of contracts. Then there's the tendency also to interpret the laws of the universe as a contract, including ethics.
If we have some kind of inclination, it becomes often way too easy for our brains to find external patterns to support it. Superstition is found even in animals very similarly. We can't avoid it too. It's all over the human actions and thoughts.
But I am inclined to "do good", which means, to help other humans and life forms as I can. That is done, because I'm driven to do it, and repulsed if I don't do it. Which I have learned; presumably from my family.
I do not expect anything "in return" for what I do. I do not believe in repayment or contracts. In my view, some people are more inclined to view existence in the form of contracts. Then there's the tendency also to interpret the laws of the universe as a contract, including ethics.
If we have some kind of inclination, it becomes often way too easy for our brains to find external patterns to support it. Superstition is found even in animals very similarly. We can't avoid it too. It's all over the human actions and thoughts.
I don't really believe in karma. In all honesty, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people who do horrible things and get away with it, and plenty of unsung heroes who will never see a just reward. I suppose that might be pessimistic, but I think people focus so much on transactions, on buying and selling, that its easy to use the same mechanism when it comes to morality. I'm sure that in the majority of cases, people feel guilt for what they did, and it often comes back to haunt them, but I doubt this is any metaphysical process, just the workings of the human mind.
Saying something exists simply because it can is hardly a valid reason.
On all other functions that we have in natural law are actually supporting functions, if it was not for gravity life would not be possible. Karma could not work as a supporting function, because the universe was not based on our perceptions of good and evil. There is a balance in the universe between Creation and Destruction, Life and Death, Order and Chaos, why would one of these be rewarded over another when both are necessary?
No, karma is a thought that the truly good will get what they deserve and so will the truly bad. But its nothing more than false hope that life isn't so unfair. Sadly its not true.
I didn't say it existed, I was speaking hypothetically.
Although again I would ask why exactly should gravity be supporting anything? why should there be balance? Why should life exist at all?
Unless I am misunderstanding you, you seem to be speaking as if balance between life and death were some kind of target equilibrium the universe was striving toward, but that seems to have some mystical elements in itself.
Unless you believe in re-incarnation or an afterlife correct? Granted it may seem a bit ad-hoc, but both Karma and Re-incarnation are Eastern concepts, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had been previously used together in views that are more cohesive than what they are being given credit for.
I simply call it, what goes around comes around. I do believe in this but not as a punishment, I think it is justice. If you do many good deeds, than many good things will be give unto you but if you do horrible or treat people horribly, then why not believe that the same will be done unto you also.
Why should it matter why life exists? Do I need to know why a tree exists to know how it grows? Everything in the universe is a part of a functioning system, why this system exists in the first place is completely irrelevant. That balance is just another facet in the system, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, an animal cannot survive without taking other lives, a planet cannot emerge if stars did not decay. Sure maybe it is mystical in nature, but it is just physics.
Now where exactly would karma fit into any of this? It doesn't, in fact it flat out contradicts the system that is already in place.
If life and balance don't need a why in order to exist, why should Karma need one in order to?
So that's your argument then, because we don't understand how it might happen, we know it can't exist?
Let me ask you, do you think we know how an electron or photon while in quantum superposition happens to be at every possible location, yet as soon as it is observed it is only in one? Or how in our universe we are observing stars and galaxies farther away in light years than can be accounted for by its age? Or how the placebo effect works?
Either all of these represent some kind of massive conspiracy, or simply because we don't know how something works, doesn't mean that said thing cannot exist.