crisis averted | INFJ Forum

crisis averted

Discussion in 'Save the World.' started by myself, Apr 30, 2011.

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  1. myself

    myself Permanent Fixture

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    anyone else feeling as if we are on the edge?

    what can we do?

    let's have an intelligent discussion
    let's talk about steps we need to take

    let's educate ourselves
    let's not be complacent

    our time is so precious

    i want to be prepared to endure any hardship that comes my way

    life is pretty comfortable for most of us
    we have electricity, internet access, pizza and beer

    but we exist in a fragile system
    i see it all crumbling right now

    so how do we prepare to fall correctly?

    how should we posture ourselves?

    how can we take a bad situation, and make the best of it?
     
  2. acd

    acd jezi baba

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    Become a survivalist. Know how to survive in the wild.
    Be physically fit and generally prepared if civilization does crumble.
     
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  3. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    Life goes on.
     
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  4. OP
    myself

    myself Permanent Fixture

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    maybe i'm missing your point...

    we don't need to give up just yet!

    while we do have the chance to contribute something to this reality, why would we choose complacency?
     
  5. Jill Hives

    Jill Hives fhtagn
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    I concur.
     
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  6. jyrffw54

    jyrffw54 שכינה עוֹלֶה

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    I third this.

    We also need to wean ourselves off electricity a bit.

    You can take a shower by candlelight, do dishes outside, etc.
     
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  7. Gaze

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    good questions . . .

    I think building up our emotional fortress so that we are able to handle more difficulties and battles and take on more responsibilities or challenges without buckling too much under the pressure.

    I think we posture ourselves by anticipating the good and bad, and considering the possible scenarios and making plans that can help us prepare for the unexpected - better able to handle things.

    We make a bad situation worse by acknowledging how bad it is, dealing with the emotions which come with it and then getting back up, often after much wallowing :D, makes us much stronger - giving us thicker skin which can handle the next set of pricks which hit us in the skin.
     
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  8. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
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    You can't. It would be impossible. Everyone would be trying to do the same thing as you. So every living creature that was around would be dead. Eventually people would eat one another. When the Russians starved the people of the Ukraine the people ate tree branches and eventually one another. I have had fantasies about living in the woods until I actually tried it. And it's not easy. And once you start running out of meat you lose valuable protein and become weak quickly. Watching shows like survivor man and seeing how hard it is for him and he knows what he is doing. I think the average person is doomed. Myself included. I think it would be better for people to save this country. In the end it would be whats best for all of us. We are Americans we should act like we care about our country more than ourselves. Without it we have nothing... Not to argue with you or be a downer. I do spend a lot of time in the woods. And I rarely ever see anything to eat. Unless you like eating chipmunks and squirrels lol
     
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  9. Griffin

    Griffin Community Member

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    I agree with efromm in that you are going to have a very, very hard time surviving if the shit really hits the fan. The best course of action would be to stop that from happening in my opinion. But then the question of how. The logistics of it escape me to be honest, I don't know enough about what really matters in society to realize if it really IS about to happen, and I don't have the means to keep it from happening.

    I'd say that if you really want to stop society from crumbling, you need to be in a position powerful enough to stop it yourself, with the intelligence to know how to. And you need to not be the only one doing it.
    You need people with money, power, popularity, etc.

    Right now, alone you are too small and powerless to save anything besides maybe a small community.
     
  10. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    Throughout my sixty years, people have been predicting the end times, like the world is about to be flushed down the toilet. Won't happen. There is too much money to be made fixing things. Man is the ultimate in adaptability. History speaks. Life goes on. And, the environment suffers.
     
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  11. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
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    Look at all the wild life the American Natives had to rely on. They had buffalo a huge source of food and skins for clothing. Not to mention the bones can be used to make buttons and weapons. And the sinew and tendons can be used to make thread. There is so many things that are gone now. Huge herds of Elk are not around either. And water fowl are missing too. We have taken away the habitat. I always wonder how beautiful New York would be without all the streets and buildings. San Francisco too. I never understood why man could not leave a little something for the animals who support the planet. Without the birds and bees and the animals who roam the trees life would be impossible for us to maintain. And yet we kill off species without a second thought. Access to food is what has made our population explode.

    Btw dances with wolves is my favorite movie. It shows the life I wish I could live. I feel that maybe in another life I would have been the same man as Kevin Costner was in the movie. Today that life is not attainable. To just be at peace and live what life every day presents you. Living just to live. To survive....
     
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  12. OP
    myself

    myself Permanent Fixture

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    all true

    if people would remember that community holds immense power... we wouldn't be in this mess today

    we have been divided

    instead of coming together, people argue over politics

    as long as they think it really matters, they'll fight amongst themselves

    the time has come for all of this petty foolishness to end

    there is real work to be done

    we can see what is happening, we know what's coming, so let's not waste our time

    let's expect more from an administration
    how about wisdom

    there is no real leadership in gov't

    money commands too much power and influence

    the power is only imaginary
    no one cares about money on their death bed

    people live in a trance, trading paper from day to day
    who profits from all of this?

    [MENTION=1678]Norton[/MENTION]
    Do you want to sit and stew in this mess as it gets worse and worse?

    I'm not interested in complacency. It just doesn't make sense.

    I've got a life to live, maybe someday I'll have children.

    Even if I don't have kids, I still want to exist in a clean habitat.

    These times would be much easier if we would all just assume responsibility for our actions.

    I sure don't have all the answers.
    I do believe we can discuss the issues and even dream up some possible solutions.

    This IS our challenge.

    No one is going to do it for us. We've got a tremendous opportunity.

    Why not take action to steer this ship in a new direction?
     
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  13. Detective Conan

    Detective Conan Doesn't Cast Shadows

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    Maybe it's because I've been playing RPGs for the last 8 hours, but the answer seems rather simple. To demonstrate through analogy:

    When fighting a boss battle that is too difficult, the player has three main options to continue on in the game: 1) level grind, 2) prepare to buffer your characters (aka boost their stats), 3) prepare to debuffer the boss (lower the boss' stats). Since level grinding really doesn't work for the real-life situation, let's assume this particular instance has your trapped in an area where options 2, 3, or both are your only options. If you fight the boss once and can't beat it without using either option, you move on to try one of the options. Boost your team, see if they can solve the problem! When they die, then you move on to the next method, that being debuffing the boss. When you die again, it appears that methods 2 or 3 don't work alone. But wait a second, you had the boss in the red on both attempts... so what would happen if you buffed your team and debuffed the boss? Chances are your troubles with that boss would be solved and you can move on to the next area.

    Now, for option 2, replace "team" with "resources." For option 3, replace "boss" with "consumption rates" (or, hell, even "population"). I think those changes click nicely into place here :m202:
     
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  14. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
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    I totally agree. I don't hate anyone. Unless they are trying to harm my family. And most people who commit crime are written off. People who get in trouble for say weed are screwed for the rest of their lives. Try getting a decent job with a drug possession conviction. People write you off. So what do they do? Go back to doing what they have to too survive. I can't blame them for going back to what they know. And most people who commit crimes do so because the can't get a decent job. We need jobs and growth. Not retraction.

    There is a way to make everything work if we work together. My buddy's Dad made over thirty bucks an hour at the saw mill. Now the mills in my town are gone. And the woods are full of dead trees. That could be used to make paper. People are fond of wiping their ass. Well it takes pulp from trees. Your house is made from wood. Yet we buy wood else where and leave ours to rot? Why? When a forest fire gets going around here it will destroy everything. Then what will we have left? What will the animals have? Nothing. I have been to forests that have burned. You see dead deer and bears and all kinds of critters. It's not pretty. Ant it takes 50 or more years for things to really come back again. Instead they could manage the forests and put us to work cleaning them up and selling the wood.

    Not everyone can go to college and get a degree and that is okay. Their should be something you can do if you don't want to work in a corporate place. And yet people like me who can work with their hands are looked down upon. As if we are second class because we value life over a dollar. I want to live simply. I don't need a lot of money to live. And I don't hate those that do. Such is life to each their own. Rich or poor we all need a country to belong in. I am tired of politicians. I hate both parties equally. And would never vote for either. They have destroyed this country together. And none of them should be reelected. That's my opinion. If you flame me for it. That's your problem.
     
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  15. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    So, what are you going to do? I don't mean talk because talk is cheap and meaningless if it doesn't quickly lead to action. So, what explicit, definitive actions are you going to take to improve things on this earth? I know what I've done and I believe that my existence has made a small, yet meaningful, difference even though it took many years of persistent effort. Remember that any action you take is done within the context of incredible complexity and not recognizing this is naive and certain to result in wasted effort. Fact: for what it's worth (and many say not much), the median IQ is 100, so there are many low IQ people in the world. They're hard to convince if convincing requires significant thought. Fact: a large portion of the American people question Obama's birth in the US, despite clear and convincing evidence and documentation. Thus, facts don't count for many Americans. Fact: polling indicates that a majority of Americans believe that foreign aid constitutes ~25% of the Federal budget, when it is actually 1% of the budget. So, if that's any indication (and, I believe it is), the American public is grossly misinformed and ignorant despite easily available and accessible information. There are many other indications of such ignorance.

    So, what kinds of discussions are you going to have to convince people to live better, be nice to each, clean the environment, and develop communitarian initiatives? Working within the context of the above, how are you going to fight the massive power of agribusiness, the healthcare industry, the arms producers, etc.? I'm not being pessimistic. I'm being realistic.

    Here're some examples of what you can do. 1. Become very wealthy yet retain your ideals. Then apply your wealth to influence (slightly) policy while remembering that other wealthy people are using their wealth to counter your actions. 2. Invent and/or produce good products sold at reasonable prices that explicitly improve the lives of people. For example, develop new antibiotics that work against the growing threat of antibiotic resistance. Another example: invent significantly more efficient solar cell arrays that are manufacturable and commercializable. 3. Influence the curricula in your local schools to include two courses: 1. how to study, and, 2. critical thinking. There are specific, well understood methods of studying of which most students are completely ignorant. Learning would improve greatly if students are taught how to study. Many of the problems we have today are because people can't and/or don't think critically. Teaching critical thinking doesn't guarantee that people will think critically, but it can't hurt and might actually steer some toward greater rationality. Unfortunately, many teachers are unable to think critically, so it is unrealistic to expect them to teach the subject.

    So, don't spout ideals. Do something. Without action, talk, while it may be self-satisfying, is meaningless.
     
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  16. not sure

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    Peanut butter is the answer.
     
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  17. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    I think people quite naturally snap to external solutions in these things, and this might well be part of the picture, but I think if someone is really driven to make alterations one must look within to re-ground onesself in spiritual connections that are time-tested and true...a basic inner re-orientation. Then things look differently, and clarity and wisdom emerge from the chaos...fear vanishes, judgement vanishes. All else flows from this.

    Surprisingly, not many are really equipped to make this journey....one must let go of the familiar, ego-centric view and enter into a world where all of our assumptions are disturbingly up-ended, yet one that ends amid great paradox in a world of peace, centerdness, and utter fearlessness. Nothing can ever overcome such a person.

    The entrance to this path is the opposite of what one might expect, which is in itself the most amazing part of the whole thing.
     
  18. manatee

    manatee Community Member

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    In a few decades, the monetary system will collapse. When politicians speak about the importance of "confidence", they mean the importance of people being unaware that their savings are being eroded to the benefit of a select few, close to the printing press. The entire edifice of the world economy is built on phony baloney, and it's going to come to an end soon.

    Saving dollars for your old age is a recipe for disaster; when you reach the age of retirement, those dollars won't be worth more than the paper they're made of (I hear the metals pennies are made of already are worth more than a cent). If you're going to prepare for the future, you want to invest in real things. A promising investment is knowledge and skills. Worthwhile skills will always be valued, human capital is essential in every endeavor. Things like gold, food, clothes etc. will also be good to have.

    Most of the world's currencies are to some degree backed by dollars. Once it collapses, it will reverberate throughout the world both because the American market is (obviously) connected to the global economy, and because all other fiat monies will have their foundations shaken too. USA will probably be hit the hardest, but escaping it isn't easy.

    It's possible, though, that China is an escape. I've heard their government is both buying and encouraging their citizens to buy gold. They might be moving to a gold standard, which means they will only be affected due to foreign exchange crumbling, their internal market will still be fine.

    Unfortunately, I've also heard that a lot of China's prosperity is illusory, that artificial credit expansion and silly stimulus constitute a large part of their impressive statistics, although some of it obviously is real growth. If this is the case, things seem bad. If it is realized that the US' debt is worthless and that the entire thing is a Ponzi scheme, and they no longer find new people to fool, they will be forced to monetize their debt; Hello, hyperinflation. The global fiat system undergoes an earthquake, international trade takes a big hit etc.. If, at the same time, it is revealed that China is just a network of entrepreneurial errors, the simultaneous corrections will wreak havoc.

    If the unsustainable path now being pursued is not turned away from, it doesn't seem too far-fetched that several states might actually default. If this happens we must all be brave and strong, and help those who are hit hard by this. Many people are directly dependent on government services for their survival, and even though we have been conditioned to not care about this and leave it all to the government, we must aid them in this crisis. Remember: society is not simply the state, neither is it our money, our stocks, or any other silliness. It's the relations between all persons, it's our interactions. There is no reason for this to collapse unless we lose our morality and humanity. I trust that people will realize the need for peaceful cooperation and the continued process of discovering how to reciprocally serve one another in the best way.

    There will be voices calling for a new, strong dictatorial central planning entity, on a global scale. Loud voices. The great majority of those who call for this do so simply out of fear, for a perceived inadequacy among humans to cooperate, and an imagined need for serfdom under a Great Leader who can tell us what to do. The ones most fiercely advancing this agenda, however, will be the ones who purposefully started this mess. The ones trying to manipulate us into giving them more power by using what power they already have to mess things up. Do not give into these voices. It will be tantalizingly tempting, but you mustn't. Remember that they were pulling the strings all along.

    It will be terrifying once the reality of the situation is revealed, but through love, morality, peaceful cooperation and a willingness to help, we can alleviate the worst of our burdens and start anew in building a functional and beautiful society.
     
  19. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    No one can predict the future. Not you. Not anyone.

    And, it's not as if, when things get bad, people remain passive and do nothing. When things are bad, at least some people take action and fix them. This has always happened.
     
    #19 Norton, May 1, 2011
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  20. manatee

    manatee Community Member

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    My prediction is that Coyote is going to fall down. You're right though, I don't know this for certain.

    I can't offer any reason for anyone to trust me, but being prepared doesn't hurt.
    Many of these initiative-takers will act with insidious intentions. But if we can uphold virtuous values and see with clarity, we can resist their suggestions and instead be guided by love, compassion, a will to take responsibility in one's own hands and a readiness to help others.

    True, it always has. If everyone is complacent and solely puts their trust in other, distant people, however, it won't ever again. It is imperative to act in the spirit of self-reliance and charity, and not fall victim to the "someone-else" syndrome.
     
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