Complex PTSD (C-PTSD)
- Thread starter Trifoilum
- Start date
[MENTION=5375]chulo[/MENTION] I think you misunderstood the clip.
People replied before me -- whoops. No one's tryin to make you feel dumb. I just don't think you realise how you come across.
People replied before me -- whoops. No one's tryin to make you feel dumb. I just don't think you realise how you come across.
I don't care that much. This thread got totally derailed though.
And I still stand behind all of my comments. Minus the one about it being classified as an "illness". I never said changing your way of thinking was easy, I think people just assumed I thought it was. And I still suspect there are lots of people who are misdiagnosed with these disorders.
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Those with borderline are seen as on the line between psychos and neurosis. They flip back and forth; black and white. All good or all evil. Loyal best friend or worst enemy worthy of being destroyed.
C-PTSD is so different though it maybe be somewhat similar on the surface but underneath it's not the same... someone with C-PTSD might withdraw or be paranoid of intimacy to protect themselves from further abuse, they might get angered easily, but it's not technically splitting. Underneath what's going on underneath and what is causing the behavior is different.
Sorry if I used the wrong words too. I see BPD as something very severe and difficult to treat and deeply woven into someone's personality and more so an illness...a sickness. I see C-PTSD as something equally serious but there is more hope for healing IMO and I see it as an injury due to someone else's sickness.
This is what I don't get about it. How can you be on the line of psychosis and neurosis? It seems like you either are or you aren't. And then there are different levels of severity.
BORDERLINE.
They slip in and out of one or the other with erratic and irrational behaviour. There are different levels of severity with any illness or disorder.
Psychosis is a vague predicate and therefore subject to the Sorites paradox.
I didn't want to chime in because my experiences are pretty different, but I have DDNOS which is like C-PTSD's more controversial cousin in some ways and I can tell you about some borderline psychosis.
It is not entirely binary. It's something that can be edged into. I had a spectrum ranging between sort of freaked out but still grounded to totally gone from reality.
I'm not really sure I get it either...but they toe that line and slip back and forth. I've experienced being turned from white to black by a diagnosed borderline..their paranoia..their neurosis...then they slip right into some sort of madness and then come back.
The psychosis side is mild enough really if you compare it to the like of schizophrenia etc. I think most of it has to do with paranoia and paranoid delusions about people? I have also known severe borderlines to go through fazes of hearing voices or briefly losing touch with reality. It's a really horrible one to have to live with.
Like you were saying earlier about peope wiht CPTSD having more of a chance of healing -- the nature of Borderline PD makes it so that often times patients are resistant to treatments or refuse to stick with it long enough to see long lasting results.
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I believe mental illnesses are about more than how someone thinks. Differences in biochemistry and neurological circuits are real between people who possess sound levels of mental health and people with pronounced mental dysfunction or difficulty. If all it took in your case was changing your way of thinking, kudos to you. Perhaps you weren't struggling with quite the same thing.
Fwiw, there's no need to feel dumb. It happens to all of us. Meh. Circle of life.
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Billy, I cannot say with full certainty or with any weight, whether what you have is C-PTSD or not, but I can say that what happened to you left its trail on your psyche with great intensity. I'm sorry to hear it and I hope you'll feel better.
From an outsider (and somewhat unenlightened) perspective, I can see this affecting BPD from a psychological point of view.
Also this. And talking about this would make a separate topic in itself, because so far media treatments towards people with mental disorders have really been unhealthy and invalidating. :|
Agreed; whence why [MENTION=4871]CindyLou[/MENTION] said one is injury, while the other feels more of a sickness. (Although I see she made another disclaimer in later posts. Will get back through that)
This, together with the thing about media portrayals of people with mental disorders appeared to be a common way of thinking that ultimately was based on a degree of unknowing. Basically what [MENTION=407]Soulful[/MENTION] said;
It appeared that there is a sort of distinctive line between 'physical existence' that separates 'true illness' from 'faux illness'.
Also existed is the seemingly black-and-white thinking of "NOPE YOUR OKAY MOVE ON DON'T WHINE" and "YEP YOUR CRAY GET AWAY FROM ME DANGER DANGER LOCK YOURSELF". Which is...ultimately wrong?
From what I know, ultimately mental disorders do affect the body via hormones and bodily reactions and brain activities?
That is interesting. I can see the possibility but I haven't read any proofs and such SO...
That's also a tad similar with PTSD, isn't it? The feeling of cognitive / mental distortion and/or the lack of awareness... Being the prisoner and the torturer, the one who gives the sentence and the one who serves the time.
I'm thinking this is the core of your whole statement, and if I may ever so cruelly dissect your argument and premises; even when these statements are true, there's still no way to directly infer that the conclusion you're drawing.
The former premise is one of background; true, within certain levels and dimensions the world is just a business, and that includes the psychiatric world.
(I assume there is an implicit statement added and working here, namely;"a business exploits features / any happenings in the world for the sake of profit.")
The second premise is -also- one of background; in this case the background of the disorder.
(I'd have to question the truth of this statement because C-PTSD are diagnosed with people who have experienced trauma / abuse. That is VERY far from being poor at communicating. In fact being poor at communicating can be considered a cause of this abuse.)
While the conclusion of your argument seems to be this: "So I suspect many of the people diagnosed with these disorders really just need to figure out life a bit but are being told they have serious disorders. These are not actual illnesses, they are just disorders. They are vague and so diagnosis is somewhat subjective."
None of this challenge the existence of the disorders themselves; none of this challenge the effectiveness of the treatments; whether the treatments are actually useful to the patients or not. And most importantly, the arguments are not exclusive. Your argument that these disorders are ultimately a mental problem or a problem of communication or a problem of character (perhaps) and can be treated as such can be true and still coexist with the argument that a) mental disorders (or rather, what 'builds' mental disorder) exists. b) there are medical treatment for these disorders that have beneficial effect for the patients, enough to make them return for more.
So...the vast distance between your argument -and- your proposed conclusion.....it can be compared with the common perspective that 'meh, mental disorders ain't real / as dangerous as 'real illness' anyway, people should just get over it'. And that is really invalidating.
And I'd like to offer the moral idea of "...okay, so you argued they are not real. So what? What does it have to do with the thread?
What does it have to do with how other people are treating their disorders?" But....you seemed to get it too
Digression about a digression here:
I'm not trying to demean or finding fallacies in your argument, but... I'm just trying to dissect your argument and present it in a mathematical way, adding implicit arguments that seems to work in my understanding of your post. In some ways it probably help you understanding where I'm coming from
Initial Belief 1 : Mental disorders aren't caused by a virus or a bacteria.
Initial Belief 2 : They aren't caused by the immune system acting in ways it shouldn't.
Conclusion 0 : They are disorders that can be cured with communication, people just need to learn to communicate.
Premise 1 : In my opinion these are modern problems that people develop from being poor at communicating. (from Conclusion 0)
Conclusion 1 : I suspect many of the people diagnosed with these disorders really just need to figure out life a bit. >> This is the most nonexclusive part.
Premise 2 : there are financial incentives for diagnosing people with this stuff.
Premise 3 : People in the psych industry need people like this for business.
Conclusion 2 : (implicit) People will lie and create as much disorder as possible to put people in boxes, while also creating businesses, drugs, and services to accommodate that need.
Premise 4 : (implicit) People will lie and create as much disorder as possible to put people in boxes, while also creating businesses, drugs, and services to accommodate that need.
Premise 4b : (implicit) And an existence of a lie and/or manipulation means everything related is invalid >> I think this is the working rule.
Premise 5 : (implicit) People diagnosed with psychological disorders will use drugs / commit at treatments
Conclusion 3 : People are (will?) being told they have serious disorders
Premise 6 : I suspect many of the people diagnosed with these disorders really just need to figure out life a bit. (from Conclusion 1)
Premise 7 : but are being told they have serious disorders. (from Conclusion 3)
Premise 4b : (implicit) And an existence of a lie and/or manipulation means everything related is invalid
Conclusion 4 : These are not actual illnesses, they are just disorders.
Premise 8: These are not actual illnesses, they are just disorders. (derived from conclusion 4)
Conclusion 5 : The diagnosis is somewhat subjective.
Premise 9 : The diagnosis is somewhat subjective. (from Conclusion 5)
Premise 10 : A disorder can be cured by changing a persons way of thinking.
Premise 11 : An illness can't be cured by simply changing a persons way of thinking.
Conclusion 6 : They are disorders that can be cured with communication, people just need to learn to communicate ??? >> Circular argument!?
Am I getting this right?
Agreed to all of this.
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[/quote]
Yes, I feel like this is also the case. There's no mention of how.
"How to be not X?" "Just don't do X!" "...ung..."
There's also this meritocracy, The Secret-ish belief that "you can do it if you want to!" without giving any care about their circumstances and the world's circumstances at the whole, and chulo's wordings skirts dangerously close to this belief. (Which I don't think is his intentions....)
After dissecting @chulo's entire argument I found out that I don't exactly disagree with some of his way of thinking, and taken separately I can integrate some parts of his beliefs, but the conclusions he's drawing seems to make the entire thing just.....disagreeable.
But admittedly I'm getting too heated up and/or biased, perhaps. I'm sorry for @chulo.
yeah...
Ultimately C-PTSD seems to affect thinking and perception more than others.
Shit, all of what I said has essentially been discussed /blush
But I agree, let's focus on the topic... that is, especially for [MENTION=5375]chulo[/MENTION], if you want to talk about what I said further, I'm open for a personal discussion.
I'm not sure if you're still looking for info on CPTSD, but here are a couple of sources I used in my Abnormal Psych paper (the second one opens a PDF document, but it's a pretty interesting power point):
http://202.68.89.83/NR/rdonlyres/D4...I_00DBHOH_BILL9236_1_A15599_CooperLegalBa.pdf
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/colleges/henry-kendall-college-of-arts-and-sciences/Departments-and-Schools/Department-of-Psychology/News-Events-and-Publications/News/2009/December/~/media/Files/Arts%2520And%2520%2520Sciences/Psychology/TraumaPresentation/Marcy%2520Elder.ashx&sa=U&ei=pUEaUYi3A-mc2QWfioH4Aw&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNG-zPvIQYoGrX02iAiqnsZtBI4kYg
http://202.68.89.83/NR/rdonlyres/D4...I_00DBHOH_BILL9236_1_A15599_CooperLegalBa.pdf
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/colleges/henry-kendall-college-of-arts-and-sciences/Departments-and-Schools/Department-of-Psychology/News-Events-and-Publications/News/2009/December/~/media/Files/Arts%2520And%2520%2520Sciences/Psychology/TraumaPresentation/Marcy%2520Elder.ashx&sa=U&ei=pUEaUYi3A-mc2QWfioH4Aw&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNG-zPvIQYoGrX02iAiqnsZtBI4kYg