Complex PTSD (C-PTSD) | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

Complex PTSD (C-PTSD)

If you would like to observe whom I think is a good example of C-PTSD in the media, watch a film called Shutter Island. I believe the main character is a fairly good example of someone with severe C-PTSD with Dissociative characteristics.
Oh, yes, I watched Shutter Island. But.....is that an example of dissociating? and C-PTSD?

I thought it was an example of a psychosis of some sort. Although psychosis can itself be a huge part of C-PTSD.
Dissociation is a tough one. I suffer from it quite badly from times. Even when I think I'm not havin difficulties with it I can still "zone out" up to twenty times in an afternoon, so I've been told by my friends.

Dissociation is bad because it's just a state of disconnect from the world around you. It might seem harmless at first, but it becomes a way of coping and instead of dealing with the things you need to deal with or learning to manage or cope with situations you may find stressful your body just shuts down and goes into dissociative mode. It's kind of like avoidance.
Ah....yeah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for reminding me.
 
And this is my paper >_>;
The context is : How do you think that social context may have an influence on whether someone receives this diagnosis?
I'm choosing Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder / C-PTSD as my topic.

I'm very interested in human minds. Tiny ripples and echoes, shaping and changing someone's mind. How thoughts affect the real world and vice versa. C-PTSD is another important extension. When the ripples are so great, they alter the person's psyche in such a significant and destructive way.

From Wikipedia, C-PTSD is described as such : "psychological injury that results from protracted exposure to prolonged social and/or interpersonal trauma in the context of either captivity or entrapment (a situation lacking a viable escape route for the victim), which results in the lack or loss of control, helplessness, and deformations of identity and sense of self."

My main question is : how do you decide whether if someone has C-PTSD or not?

C-PTSD have been mistaken with Borderline Personality Disorder, DID, or just plain PTSD. There's not enough knowledge and education pertaining this particular issue, and the media aren't really showing a lot of good, profound, and realistic representations in media. This confuses the social context even more.

Generally, C-PTSD are mental 'wounds', related to traumas. The cause and effects of C-PTSD can be traced to other people; what they did, how they affected the mind and what happened as a result. On one hand, people accepts that humans have problems. Some are personal, others interpersonal, systematic. Regardless of what these problems are, they affected our lives significantly. Prolonged exposure to emotional/interpersonal trauma will alter the way someone thinks about humanity, relationship, and themselves. The missing core is the point when it's too much, and C-PTSD is established. But who's to say whether something is 'enough' to inflict C-PTSD? How much?

The main confusion is in the social determinants. At best, one can pinpoint the causes; Sometimes it's extraordinary situations, like wartime, kidnapping, gang violence, imprisonment. But other times it's things that are more mundane. Poverty. Grief and trauma. An abusive relationship. Emotional manipulation. People tend to focus on the physical signs. Black eyes, bruises, broken limbs. They are important, but the invisible wounds got unnoticed if not ignored.

Then there are sociocultural factors. There's a connection between expectations, values, culture, and community that's different between cultures, genders, race, sexualities, identities. Aside from how culture affects its development directly and indirectly, they created difficulties when it comes to diagnosing the disorder. They affect awareness, encouragement, and insights on the disorder and when to seek help.

For instance, men and women both have similar potentials on receiving mental trauma and abuse, but men have the stigma to appear 'macho', stoic, unaffected; while women had the ever-so-popular victim blaming working against them. People living in lower economic class have higher risk on developing mental disorders, and a lower chance of getting them treated and diagnosed. Some countries still has certain stigmas against psychiatric diagnosis. Patients are seen as whining, weak, if not outright unstable and dangerous.

People who dealt with numerous hardships may be expected to have a stronger resilience because of the general hardship. There is a paternalistic way of thinking that espouses a particular idea, belief, method as superior to everything else. People are compared with other people who 'deal with it'. Expressing vulnerability (like going to a therapist) is seen as a personal weakness.

These complex webs affect how diagnosis is done accurately and timely, and how fast potential patients seek treatment. And so far, they are very discriminating against people with C-PTSD.
 
Thanks, [MENTION=5297]Neverwhere[/MENTION] :D

I'm also reading what [MENTION=3765]Vicarious[/MENTION] gave;

Complex PTSD is unlike a trauma in which a person is exposed once. >> AH. That explains it. Looking within a particular timeframe, I think some PTSD also happened in long-term situation? Like wartime, or living in places rife with violence... Although some are more acute like sexual abuse or hate crime.

It is said that people dissociate for these reasons...which I honestly don't get.


  • Cognitive dissonance regarding caregivers and abusers >> does this mean they dissociate to eliminate the dissonance? Or in dissociating, they create a cognitive dissonance?
  • A “freeze freeze” response in the flight, fight or freeze response to threat. >> This one, I get a bit...
  • A fundamental disconnect between what is supposed to happen to what is reality for those in abusive households. >> So this is more like a clash between ideals / hopes and reality?

Sometimes I wonder if dissociating is a bad or good; I mean...it can lead to bad things, but...
.........not feeling, not feeling that -hit-.

Isn't that
good?

Please describe "freeze freeze". I'm familiar with fight or flight, it seems dissociation would be considered a form of flight.

And yes dissociating seems to me like it is probably a good thing. Not saying it's healthy but we evolved to do it for a reason.

Dissociating is like a life raft that gets us across a river. But once we get to the other side of the river we continue to carry the raft after it has served it's use and it becomes a burden. It's a survival mechanism that helps us get through a tough time but after the tough time is over it becomes a burden if we don't unlearn it.
 
Please describe "freeze freeze". I'm familiar with fight or flight, it seems dissociation would be considered a form of flight.
Freeze is essentially a form of playing death, and/or a form of surrendering at the same time. But more likely to be a form of playing death

And yes dissociating seems to me like it is probably a good thing. Not saying it's healthy but we evolved to do it for a reason.

Dissociating is like a life raft that gets us across a river. But once we get to the other side of the river we continue to carry the raft after it has served it's use and it becomes a burden. It's a survival mechanism that helps us get through a tough time but after the tough time is over it becomes a burden if we don't unlearn it.
See Neverwhere's post above; I think she explained it better than I could.
 
I believe the guy from Shutter Island has C-PTSD as opposed to psychosis because he was already suffering from PTSD after the war and the liberation of Dachau way before the incident with his wife and kids, which just pushed him into the C-PTSD spectrum. The dissociation aspect is due to him believing he is a completely different person, similar to that of dissociative identity disorder.
 
I agree with [MENTION=3765]Vicarious[/MENTION] about hte dude from shutter island. I identified way too much with that character!
[MENTION=5375]chulo[/MENTION] I don't think you properly understand dissociation. We didn't "Evolve to do it" for a reason so much as it's a total shut down in the face of trauma. We can't cope with what's happening to us, so we just disconnect. This isn't a good thing, regardless of whether you disconnect or not it's still happening. You can't change that.

I dissociate a lot when little triggers pop up in day to day life...but that can happen a lot. It actually causes problems. It makes emotions and difficulties and makes dealing with things a lot harder.
 
Yup. Dissociation is a (usually involuntary) coping mechanism that can occur after one has endured severe trauma. It can be as simple as spacing off or detaching when a raw subject comes up, to a total loss of orientation to person, place, and time (fugue) or sometimes (supposedly) split personalities. I say supposedly regarding the split personalities because there are findings that a great majority if those cases are either faked or therapist encouraged. I think it will soon drop off of the DSM. However, that doesn't mean other types of dissociation don't exist. Split personalities is only one category of many in the dissociation spectrum.
 
(Sorry, this app won't let me edit).

I also agree with Neverwhere that dissociation is not a healthy coping mechanism. It can cause severe social, familial, and professional problems as well as not allowing the person to learn how to properly cope with their emotions and issues.
 
One thing both of you implies is that the damage of dissociation is long term.. while chulo seems to talk about short term benefits; one of which I also mentioned. And @chulo also mentioned that in longer terms, it won't do anyone good.

Personally, while I understand the long term damage... but when you're in there..... rather than say, suppressing, or direct outrage... or having the blow hit you perfectly straight on the heart.... And from what I understand, especially for the people with trauma, people -inside- a traumatic, trapping situation; the idea on how to act or how to feel or how to handle stress.... is probably fucked up. Thoroughly fucked up as hell.

.....so.
dissociation has its charms.
A wicked, evil charm that will lead us to ruin, but...

......
Okay, bias; both of you probably have experienced a superb, utterly destructive experience of dissociating; you both have experienced the direct terror, and thus the understanding you had is most likely greater, deeper and has more nuance than I ever had. Also, you'll have more experience and 'content' to back your belief up. So I may be utterly wrong here, and I apologize if that were the case.
 
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One thing both of you implies is that the damage of dissociation is long term.. while chulo seems to talk about short term benefits; one of which I also mentioned. And @chulo also mentioned that in longer terms, it won't do anyone good.

Personally, while I understand the long term damage... but when you're in there..... rather than say, suppressing, or direct outrage... or having the blow hit you perfectly straight on the heart.... And from what I understand, especially for the people with trauma, people -inside- a traumatic, trapping situation; the idea on how to act or how to feel or how to handle stress.... is probably fucked up. Thoroughly fucked up as hell.

.....so.
dissociation has its charms.
A wicked, evil charm that will lead us to ruin, but...

......
Okay, bias; both of you probably have experienced a superb, utterly destructive experience of dissociating; you both have experienced the direct terror, and thus the understanding you had is most likely greater, deeper and has more nuance than I ever had. Also, you'll have more experience and 'content' to back your belief up. So I may be utterly wrong here, and I apologize if that were the case.

Exactly. I believe humans evolved the ability to dissociate for a reason. Similar to how we faint from extreme pain. Or enter shock and divert resources away from certain organs in an attempt to save more important organs. It's a defense mechanism that causes problems but still has value in terms of survival. Thanks for clarifying, I was worried nobody understood what I was saying.
 
Exactly. I believe humans evolved the ability to dissociate for a reason. Similar to how we faint from extreme pain. Or enter shock and divert resources away from certain organs in an attempt to save more important organs. It's a defense mechanism that causes problems but still has value in terms of survival. Thanks for clarifying, I was worried nobody understood what I was saying.

I still dont really understand what the short term benefits are though....

Care to elaborate?
 
I still dont really understand what the short term benefits are though....

Care to elaborate?

When psychologically you can't cope with what is happening to you, you disconnect. It's a way of escaping trauma. It's a way of minimizing the amount of psychological damage. Sometimes people can't physically escape their situation so the next best thing is a psychological escape.

I'm not an expert on this stuff. I'm just assuming based on intuition like a true infj.
 
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We're not talking about disconnecting during the occurrence of the trauma, the dissociation I have been referring to is a coping mechanism that happens involuntarily after the fact and is very disruptive for the victim. There wouldn't be an entire spectrum of disorders related to dissociation of it was considered a healthy way of coping, and not everyone does it so I don't necessarily believe that it's an evolved trait. It doesn't make what occurred any less traumatic...in fact, for many, it makes things much worse because you're now dealing with a co-morbidity along with the PTSD and so far, the most effective treatment for PTSD is to face the trauma head on and to develop healthy coping skills. Dissociation hinders that.
 
We're not talking about disconnecting during the occurrence of the trauma, the dissociation I have been referring to is a coping mechanism that happens involuntarily after the fact and is very disruptive for the victim. There wouldn't be an entire spectrum of disorders related to dissociation of it was considered a healthy way of coping, and not everyone does it so I don't necessarily believe that it's an evolved trait. It doesn't make what occurred any less traumatic...in fact, for many, it makes things much worse because you're now dealing with a co-morbidity along with the PTSD and so far, the most effective treatment for PTSD is to face the trauma head on and to develop healthy coping skills. Dissociation hinders that.
Ah, thank you for the distinction.
 
We're not talking about disconnecting during the occurrence of the trauma, the dissociation I have been referring to is a coping mechanism that happens involuntarily after the fact and is very disruptive for the victim. There wouldn't be an entire spectrum of disorders related to dissociation of it was considered a healthy way of coping, and not everyone does it so I don't necessarily believe that it's an evolved trait. It doesn't make what occurred any less traumatic...in fact, for many, it makes things much worse because you're now dealing with a co-morbidity along with the PTSD and so far, the most effective treatment for PTSD is to face the trauma head on and to develop healthy coping skills. Dissociation hinders that.

Indeed.

Personally I had to work very hard to unlock memories that my psyche simply refused to have. It's a little frightening when it truly illustrates the illusive and ephemeral nature of consciousness.

Things are a bit different when the illusion is not revealed, but when it is revealed and you realize that there is more to yourself than yourself is letting you know about, it can make you wonder what all that you don't know.

What if something happened and my consciousness doesn't know it? What if I did something and have no memory of it? Those can become legitimate questions once you recognize how entirely possible such situations actually are.
 
Indeed.

Personally I had to work very hard to unlock memories that my psyche simply refused to have. It's a little frightening when it truly illustrates the illusive and ephemeral nature of consciousness.

Things are a bit different when the illusion is not revealed, but when it is revealed and you realize that there is more to yourself than yourself is letting you know about, it can make you wonder what all that you don't know.

What if something happened and my consciousness doesn't know it? What if I did something and have no memory of it? Those can become legitimate questions once you recognize how entirely possible such situations actually are.

...Yes, interesting questions, they are.
Which were just decaying memories, which were blocked? :|
 
When psychologically you can't cope with what is happening to you, you disconnect. It's a way of escaping trauma. It's a way of minimizing the amount of psychological damage. Sometimes people can't physically escape their situation so the next best thing is a psychological escape.

I'm not an expert on this stuff. I'm just assuming based on intuition like a true infj.

No.

Let's just talk about dissociating during trauma on it own. Think of it like this -- if you are in a traumatic situation that makes you dissociate it's almost like things got so bad it broke you. It's a little extreme, but its kind of like what happens. It's not a good thing. Your body just shuts down and doesn't deal with whats happening in the moment.

I was raped. I couldn't handle what was happening and I couldn't escape, so I dissociated. Was this a good thing? Did it help me? Well, no actually. It really didn't. I was still raped. I still remember what happened. I still had to deal with the consequences of what happened to me. Actually, I felt even worse about myself to some extent because at a certain point I just zoned out and didn't fight back.

There's one example anyway. I can't think of one example in my life where dissociation has ever been good. Switching off makes it impossible for you to do anything.

If we're looking at this in the case of CPTSD it can end up being harmful because it can disable a person from escaping their situation. For example a situation in a living enviornment where this is ongoing abuse. If a person dissociates all the time to try and block out whats happening they can just become stuck instead of maybe doing something to help themselves or escaping. When the abuse is going on long term it's easy for even the thought of something to just overwhelm or tire you and make you just dissociate.

Even going back to more "once off" situations like the example I gave earlier....sometimes you can dissociate so badly things get fuzzy or you black out parts. This doesn't help either. Dissociation isn't a "good" thing. Having fuzzy memories or blacking out is frightening, and it doesn't just stay forgotten.
Even in long term amnesia of an incident ie. child sexual abuse (i can't remember the stats of victims who couldn't remember their abuse for years, its fairly common) dissociation doesn't protect you. You may have forgotten what happens, but you still suffer the effects of the abuse. And it only get's worse when eventually those repressed memories start coming back as intrusive and violent flashbacks.

So yeah, I really don't see in any way how dissociation is good.
 
[MENTION=5297]Neverwhere[/MENTION] [MENTION=3765]Vicarious[/MENTION]

question; how do you know whether if you're dissociating or not?
 
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I think part of why C-PTSD is such a nightmare is that you sometimes mistake the trauma and maladaptive behavior as your identity and personality because you are so used to living with it. You totally disconnect awareness from it and then wonder why you're so depressed/etc as if you have no reason to be. Not acknowledging how far you've come and how much you really have to deal with and that's why everything is such a battle.