Compatibility: Value(s) Conflicts.

[Not2bforgot10]

I am curious what people think about contrasting values as far as partnership goes? What if you're in a relationship with someone who has different values than you? More importantly, what if your partner violates one of your values? ...how do you part with that? What are your thoughts and feelings? (Please imagine yourself in the situation I'm describing, or if you're presently in the situation then you can just speak from current experience).

The situation: Basically what's going on is my partner, who's a former coke addict (4 years sober) and a questionable alcoholic is wanting to go out and drink; moreover, she is wanting to work with alcohol as part of her career (restaurant/hospitality). I am very against alcohol and drugs. For the sake of this conversation, we'll stick with alcohol since it seems to be the current issue.

I am not sure what to do right now with her temptations of wanting to drink and moreover her career choice that deals with alcohol, as stated earlier, it highly violates my values.

(If it should matter to any, her mbti type is ESFP and Enneagram 7w6).

 

[acd]

In order for the relationship to continue, in that case, the two involved need to compromise. If one partner can't respect the others values and violates those values (consistently w/o willing to work on compromise) then the violator has no respect for their partner.. and in actuality, that sounds like a horrible relationship. It's something that I've dealt with myself.

A person must decide if their own values are more important than having someone around. If someone doesn't value themself and their own ideals, how can they truly value another person?

Which is basically an Ayn Rand quote that I love:

"To love is to value. Only a rationally selfish man, a man of self esteem, is capable of holding firm, consistent, uncompromising, unbetrayed values. The man who does not value himself cannot value anything or anyone." --Ayn Rand

You could choose to support her and stay together, but somehow without enabling her. Have you really talked about the way you feel with her? Did you tell her your concerns or are they just now starting to brew?

 

[Forgotten Rose]

Well of course there will be differences with values in a relationship.
Using your example with the alcohol, if I were against it and my partner was a heavy drinker, I'd probably talk to him and try to compromise. Maybe ask him to cut it down a bit.
And it goes both ways, if there's something he didn't like about me, I'd want him to talk to me about it and I'd try to compromise also. =3

 

[Forgotten Rose]

In order for the relationship to continue, in that case, the two involved need to compromise. If one partner can't respect the others values and violates those values (consistently w/o willing to work on compromise) then the violator has no respect for their partner.. and in actuality, that sounds like a horrible relationship. It's something that I've dealt with myself.

A person must decide if their own values are more important than having someone around. If someone doesn't value themself and their own ideals, how can they truly value another person?

Which is basically an Ayn Rand quote that I love:

"To love is to value. Only a rationally selfish man, a man of self esteem, is capable of holding firm, consistent, uncompromising, unbetrayed values. The man who does not value himself cannot value anything or anyone." --Ayn Rand

Looks like we had the same thinking there. :]

 

[Not2bforgot10]

Well of course there will be differences with values in a relationship.
Using your example with the alcohol, if I were against it and my partner was a heavy drinker, I'd probably talk to him and try to compromise. Maybe ask him to cut it down a bit.
And it goes both ways, if there's something he didn't like about me, I'd want him to talk to me about it and I'd try to compromise also. =3

I have talked with her about it and she said she will drink in moderation, but isn't that what they all say? Forgive me for being so judgemental (better word, maybe?), etc but I am just going by past experience and former/current knowledge. She has had issues with it (and drugs) in the past, and so there is obviously an addictive personality component, and I am very nerved as a result of the possibility. Keep in mind that she's an ESFP 7/6 and doesn't want to be restricted in many ways. She is willing to compromise but is resentful about it. She said she has suppressed her urges for me so far, but I can't help but think this won't last long, and I don't want to be viewed as someone who's "controlling." (I feel controlling by her holding back because of me). I am afraid if this continues, she will go behind my back, and I will be devastated if she were to do that. Yet I can't be controlling otherwise I look like that "bad" guy.

 

[ZenCat]

Briefly, (and as touched on in another thread) I myself could not commit to a long-term relationship with an active alcoholic or addict. If I'm going to be completely honest, I don't think I ever would have taken the risk with a recovering alcoholic or addict either(which once presented itself to me as a potential relationship, and I removed myself from it, giving full, honest, but loving information as to why).

It's one of the doors I closed (and locked) when I set myself on a path to live a wholesome, sane life.

I do sincerely hope you and your partner can find a healthy solution to this conflict of values.

 

[acd]

It sounds like you already know the answer to your question.

 

[Ingrid]

I think a relationship where two people have vastly different value systems can be difficult. Depending on how strongly held the values are, compromise may not be the answer.

For example, if it's important to me to have equality within my relationship, or if it's important to me to not have a partner hit me or raise their voice at me, I'm not going to be willing to compromise to have "some equality" or have someone who can raise their voice at me or hit me some of the time.

In my relationship, it's important that we have shared value systems. I am not suggesting that means my partner has to agree with everything I do or believe in the same things. Some of the things I value include integrity, dignity, mutual respect and honesty. If the person I am with doesn't hold the same things close, it's not got much chance of actually working.

For example, I've had partners with different political views, different ideas about religion, and different thoughts about decriminalisation of drugs. I've never felt the need to compromise or find middle ground with our views on certain things. As our relationship has a shared value system, differences of opinion around things can be embraced and accepted and are able to grow and evolve over time.

 

[Forgotten Rose]

I have talked with her about it and she said she will drink in moderation, but isn't that what they all say? Forgive me for being so judgemental (better word, maybe?), etc but I am just going by past experience and former/current knowledge. She has had issues with it (and drugs) in the past, and so there is obviously an addictive personality component, and I am very nerved as a result of the possibility. Keep in mind that she's an ESFP 7/6 and doesn't want to be restricted in many ways. She is willing to compromise but is resentful about it. She said she has suppressed her urges for me so far, but I can't help but think this won't last long, and I don't want to be viewed as someone who's "controlling." (I feel controlling by her holding back because of me). I am afraid if this continues, she will go behind my back, and I will be devastated if she were to do that. Yet I can't be controlling otherwise I look like that "bad" guy.

I don't think that makes you controlling at all. It's a fair compromise. It's not like you are completely banning her from drinking PERIOD. You're only asking her to moderate it a bit.
And I'm sure if there's something that you were to do that bothered her, you'd want her to talk to you about it, and I'm sure you'd compromise about that as well.
Sacrifice and disagreement exist in every relationship. It is impossible to have a relationship without it.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

Briefly, (and as touched on in another thread) I myself could not commit to a long-term relationship with an active alcoholic or addict. If I'm going to be completely honest, I don't think I ever would have taken the risk with a recovering alcoholic or addict either(which once presented itself to me as a potential relationship, and I removed myself from it, giving full, honest, but loving information as to why).

It's one of the doors I closed (and locked) when I set myself on a path to live a wholesome, sane life.

I do sincerely hope you and your partner can find a healthy solution to this conflict of values.

Yeah... I wonder if I would have been strong enough earlier on to have put up a boundary and said, "Hey, this is my deal breaker." Thinking back to 5 months ago when I first met my partner, I didn't know that coke had been a problem, OR alcohol really. To be honest, I may have missed that detail. I am not naturally good with personal details and moreover I may have not wanted to believe or hear it so subconsciously I may have blocked it out. Regardless, I am now in a predicament.

Did you, personally, grow up in an alcoholic home? What have your experiences been like with former addicts?

 

[Ingrid]

Did you, personally, grow up in an alcoholic home? What have your experiences been like with former addicts?

I've lived with a sober addict in recovery and life was beautiful.

I've also lived with someone who has been active in their addiction and life was hell.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

I think a relationship where two people have vastly different value systems can be difficult. Depending on how strongly held the values are, compromise may not be the answer.

For example, if it's important to me to have equality within my relationship, or if it's important to me to not have a partner hit me or raise their voice at me, I'm not going to be willing to compromise to have "some equality" or have someone who can raise their voice at me or hit me some of the time.

In my relationship, it's important that we have shared value systems. I am not suggesting that means my partner has to agree with everything I do or believe in the same things. Some of the things I value include integrity, dignity, mutual respect and honesty. If the person I am with doesn't hold the same things close, it's not got much chance of actually working.

For example, I've had partners with different political views, different ideas about religion, and different thoughts about decriminalisation of drugs. I've never felt the need to compromise or find middle ground with our views on certain things. As our relationship has a shared value system, differences of opinion around things can be embraced and accepted and are able to grow and evolve over time.

Thank you. As I asked a couple other members, what are your personal experiences with alcohol/drugs? ...partner-wise? Also, did you grow up in a home where addiction/dysfunction was present?

 

[ZenCat]

Yeah... I wonder if I would have been strong enough earlier on to have put up a boundary and said, "Hey, this is my deal breaker." Thinking back to 5 months ago when I first met my partner, I didn't know that coke had been a problem, OR alcohol really. To be honest, I may have missed that detail. I am not naturally good with personal details and moreover I may have not wanted to believe or hear it so subconsciously I may have blocked it out. Regardless, I am now in a predicament.

Did you, personally, grow up in an alcoholic home? What have your experiences been like with former addicts?

Yes, I grew up in two alcoholic homes. My mother's, and my father's over the summer. I finally cut myself off from my family completely when I was about 22 or 23 (cold turkey, no contact at all). It was when I was 26 that my mother stopped drinking and at 27 we began the process or re-forging our relationship.

 

[Ingrid]

Thank you. As I asked a couple other members, what are your personal experiences with alcohol/drugs? ...partner-wise? Also, did you grow up in a home where addiction/dysfunction was present?

I answered above, realising now that you were probably asking ZenCat specifically.

I've been a relationship with an addict and life was very very difficult. After what I experienced, I could never be in a romantic relationship with someone who was active in their addiction ever again. It's soul destroying.

I've lived with a sober addict in recovery and it was a beautiful time. Their sense of spirituality and humility about their addiction was amazing to see.

The thing about being in a relationship with someone who is active in their addiction is that you are never going to be the most important thing in that person's life while ever they are still drinking/drugging/[insert other addiction here]. Their drug of choice will always be number one, will be the compass by which they make their decisions, and their drug(s) of choice will always come before you.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

I answered above, realising now that you were probably asking ZenCat specifically.

I've been a relationship with an addict and life was very very difficult. After what I experienced, I could never be in a romantic relationship with someone who was active in their addiction ever again. It's soul destroying.

I've lived with a sober addict in recovery and it was a beautiful time. Their sense of spirituality and humility about their addiction was amazing to see.

The thing about being in a relationship with someone who is active in their addiction is that you are never going to be the most important thing in that person's life while ever they are still drinking/drugging/[insert other addiction here]. Their drug of choice will always be number one, will be the compass by which they make their decisions, and their drug(s) of choice will always come before you.

She is sober with the coke, and as I said earlier, a questionable alcoholic. The thing is, she hasn't been drinking much since she's been with me because she knows I don't like it. It's been causing a lot of issues though because she wants to; moreover, I want her to be herself since I highly value authenticity in relationships, yet for her to be herself, if it includes drinking, violates my values.

I asked her if she'd be willing to compromise the drinking piece and she basically said that would be compromising herself, and so that just goes to show me how much she experiences alcohol as part of her life. I gave her an example of two partners... saying they both have 10-15 interests... I said, what if one partner asked you to compromise one specific interest; would know you, knowing you have 10-14 others to choose from?! She said it's "not the same." I can't really explain where I'm getting at with this, other than she really enjoys alcohol and doesn't seem to want to part with it.

The concern is that she basically defined it as part of her; there was no separation.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

In order for the relationship to continue, in that case, the two involved need to compromise. If one partner can't respect the others values and violates those values (consistently w/o willing to work on compromise) then the violator has no respect for their partner.. and in actuality, that sounds like a horrible relationship. It's something that I've dealt with myself.

A person must decide if their own values are more important than having someone around. If someone doesn't value themself and their own ideals, how can they truly value another person?

Which is basically an Ayn Rand quote that I love:

"To love is to value. Only a rationally selfish man, a man of self esteem, is capable of holding firm, consistent, uncompromising, unbetrayed values. The man who does not value himself cannot value anything or anyone." --Ayn Rand

You could choose to support her and stay together, but somehow without enabling her. Have you really talked about the way you feel with her? Did you tell her your concerns or are they just now starting to brew?

Hey, thank you for your response. And I love the quote.

I have spoken with her, yes, and we get into heated disagreements as a result. I just can't let go of the uncomfortableness.

 

[Ingrid]

Your partner has told you that not drinking would compromise who she is. You've recognised that alcohol is defined as a part of who she is, that there's no separation. Whether she's an alcoholic or not is probably irrelevant at this point - the issue is that she probably drinks too much for your liking and she's told you that she's not willing to change. When she's tried to change, it's caused issues between the two of you.

I guess you're now presented with a choice. You can live with the status quo, or not live with the status quo. It's probably important to recognise that choosing to not live with the status quo will require changes on your part.

You can't force someone else to do anything that they don't want to do and your girlfriend doesn't want to give up drinking. The only thing that you have the power to change right now is the actions that you choose to take, or not take in your relationship.

 

[ZenCat]

Your partner has told you that not drinking would compromise who she is. You've recognised that alcohol is defined as a part of who she is, that there's no separation. Whether she's an alcoholic or not is probably irrelevant at this point - the issue is that she probably drinks too much for your liking and she's told you that she's not willing to change. When she's tried to change, it's caused issues between the two of you.

I guess you're now presented with a choice. You can live with the status quo, or not live with the status quo. It's probably important to recognise that choosing to not live with the status quo will require changes on your part.

You can't force someone else to do anything that they don't want to do and your girlfriend doesn't want to give up drinking. The only thing that you have the power to change right now is the actions that you choose to take, or not take in your relationship.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[IndigoSensor]

I generally don't associate with people who differ too greatly with my values. for the most part, I will be repelled by them right off the bat without even knowing their values. I usually later find out people I can't stand have values that I do not like in any way shape or form.

If you are a social conservitive, religous fundementalist, or an extreme skeptic, I will be repelled, and friendship would never form or instantly break down.

 

[Soulful]

I generally don't associate with people who differ too greatly with my values. for the most part, I will be repelled by them right off the bat without even knowing their values. I usually later find out people I can't stand have values that I do not like in any way shape or form.

If you are a social conservitive, religous fundementalist, or an extreme skeptic, I will be repelled, and friendship would never form or instantly break down.

Ditto.. exactly ditto.