Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

J. Cardigan said:
My point was that heroin should be available for those who are in pain, not people who just want to get high. You don't have to inject heroin, just like it's totally possible to inject oxymorphone/roxycodone/etc. It's dangerous, but addicts don't give a shit; they just want to get high. The only reason fentanyl doesn't have as much potential for abuse is because it's extremely rare (a good thing) and most people overdose before they can develop a habit. Wilco's Jay Bennett died of a fentanyl overdose, which he was legally prescribed.

If cannabis was legal it could be prescribed in most cases of minor to moderate pain. I love taking painkillers, but I recognize that they cause a LOT of problems.

Most anti-depressants these days are SSRI's. Your argument also depends on someone abusing MDMA vs. taking it after your brain has recovered (supposed to be about a month or so). Anti-depressants, on the other hand, require you to take them every day and mess with your brain chemistry far worse than MDMA does.

I'm not trying to change your mind, but I'm just trying to state that the majority (doesn't mean ALL) illegal drugs have a stigma that usually doesn't have any basis in fact. If it does, chances are a pharmaceutical company sells a product that does far more harm.

Edit: As a fun fact, heroin's addictive properties go up exponentially when you inject it. Snorting it feels just like any other painkiller. I wasn't all that impressed with it, but I would never stick a needle in my arm. Same deal with cocaine.
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I am largely against the use of antidepresents (despite my sheer facination with the chemistry of them). They cause more harm them good in the majority of cases, and I get pissed when I hear that someone is on an antidepressent. Again, because as you said they are taken often and get intergrated into the persons biochemistry, and alter it as well. That doesn't mean that people don't need them, but they are overperscribed, and wrongly given. mdma is still dangerous in my eyes because as I explained before, it causes damage, and has much higher risk factors.

The reason heroine is more addictive via injection is because it crosses the BBB very rapidly because it is a more lipophillic dervitive then straight morphine (heroin is a prodrug). As such, it's sole purpose is to get it into the body as rapidly as possible and is largely more damaging and dangerous because of this. There is a very small option (if at all) for thereputic use.
 
IndigoSensor said:
The reason heroine is more addictive via injection is because it crosses the BBB very rapidly because it is a more lipophillic dervitive then straight morphine (heroin is a prodrug). As such, it's sole purpose is to get it into the body as rapidly as possible and is largely more damaging and dangerous because of this. There is a very small option (if at all) for thereputic use.
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You're again assuming that it would be injected, in which case most (if not all) of what you said also applies to IV morphine, which is administered in hospitals. The only difference is that heroin is later metabolized as morphine anyway, albeit stronger.

Again, it's totally my opinion that heroin should be available as a painkiller, but it DOES have legitimate medicinal uses, else hospitals in the United Kingdom wouldn't still be using it. I just see it as a stronger derivative of morphine, which is also highly addictive. An opiate is an opiate is an opiate. They all make the user feel fucking great, and they're all addictive. To me, it's extremely hypocritical of pharmaceutical companies to be peddling hydromorphone and denouncing heroin, because in the end they're both opiates and they both kill pain. Hydromorphone just happens to be stronger than heroin.

We're obviously not going to convince each other, though, and you're entitled to your opinion like I'm entitled to mine. I know plenty of people who cower in terror at the mention of heroin, and they act like I'm some sort of anarchist for thinking it should be available for prescription (or at least use in hospitals). It's not going to happen anyway, so it's a rather moot point.
 
Our attempts to control things (particularly people) seem so archaic at times, dealing with social problems like addiction with punishment is less effective but so much more psychologically satisfying to the kinds of people who crave power and control than taking the more sensible route of treating the cause.

The best way to train a dog is through rewards not punishment but some trainers still like to hit their dogs because it is satisfying to their warped psychology and sense of control.
 
Quinlan said:
Our attempts to control things (particularly people) seem so archaic at times, dealing with social problems like addiction with punishment is less effective but so much more psychologically satisfying to the kinds of people who crave power and control than taking the more sensible route of treating the cause.

The best way to train a dog is through rewards not punishment but some trainers still like to hit their dogs because it is satisfying to their warped psychology and sense of control.
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Some parents still like to hit their children because it makes them feel better.
 
I have to hit my greyhound because it refuses to stop biting me, no matter how much love I show it. The biting is all in play and friendly, but much to slants amusement and, now i guess, disapointment she almost bit my balls when i was sleeping just a moment ago.

That requires a hit. We're trying to discourage the biting.
 
Does it stop her from biting you the next time she is playing?

Sure you can control a dog through fear but I think the dog will work harder if they're enjoying themselves as well and you're less likely to have adverse side effects (too submissive etc.).
 
Dogs are essentially wolves, with the same social structure. If you allow the smaller ones to constantly antagonise without reprisal they'll think they can make a play for alpha wolf. That's when they think THEY make the rules.

Dogs incorporate you into their pack mind, with you as the alpha. You need to maintain that level of control.

They still have fun and play with you, but they know who is in charge. They're not sapient rational creatures, they're animals.
 
Two of the most powerful controls you can use on a dog is; ignoring them and cutting of their food source (not talking about starvation here, just withholding untill they are calm and do as you want) both methods that would be used by an Alpha Wolf. By hitting the dog for bad behaviour you're doing one of quickest things to drop your status, giving them attention! A dog should have to work for your attention, it's as much about controlling yourself (not giving into cuteness and giving unearned attention) as it is the dog.

An Alpha wolf needs respect from his pack but he also needs their trust, a pack is a team, infighting is a waste of energy.

That's just my take on it.
 
In summary I think Marijuana would be highly beneficial in the economic training of dogs.
 
Weed is ok people are not. I don't see the problem. The problem is in the way it has been potrayed. People are addicted to religion and we don't ban their bad religious behavior. I think you should have to get a permit to posess and kids should not use it at all. People need to be taught to be responsible for themselves. It's already mainstream as it is. And legalization would get rid of the drug dealers because people would go buy the clean weed from the state. I think they are just afraid that people in the end would just drop out of the mainstream and that would affect society in a way that they would not like. Look what they did to the hippies in the sixties.
 
Having the border patrol to actually be allowed to use their weapons would be a great start.
 
ilovethewind said:
Having the border patrol to actually be allowed to use their weapons would be a great start.
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Since when do non-violent crimes warrant violent counter action?
 
Always. Its mans way. We should change that. It's wrong and it harms mankind.
 
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