By the time you know the INFP had a problem, they're long gone?

[poshlost]

nothing is as disgusting for me as verbalizing emotions, feelings should be understood through subtleties, intuitively. if someone can't get it, needs to verbalize their feelings ad nauseum, then it's infeasible.

 

[David54]

well as a male let me just say that this fits me pefrectly. . if I fell like something is wrong. . I will mull it arouind. . try to figure it out. . but if it is wrong, I'll leave. .
I hate conflict of any kind. . and dont engage in it. . if someone tries to or wants to talk about the troubled things. . I will just eventually shut down and witdraw into myself. . I just cant do it. .
then I go away and it will eventually settle itself over time or not. .
ok a crappy wayt to problem solve, I know. . .

 

[grt$5vb]

It's hard. It's our natural defense mechanism, because we will do ANYTHING not to feel that pain again once a loved one has hurt us deeply.

 

[VH]

INFJs tend to be more direct, though we hate conflict. So we won't give you any signals until we're ready to be direct with you.

And if there is going to be conflict, then the kid gloves are coming off... but we want to protect the people we care about from that.

INFP, if I'm not mistaken (and any INFPs, feel free to correct me) hate conflict as well, but they *know* how they feel about the situation before INFJs do. They just don't like being direct because (maybe) they believe the other person should've picked up on how they feel because they already feel it themselves.

Which is why there can be a lot of disconnect between an INFP and an INFJ when conflict occurs; the INFP really expects the INFJ to feel what they're going through immediately, but we can't. We have to process the emotion first. Either that, or we're going to intuitively pick it up *eventually* through Ni...but we'll only know something's wrong. We won't know exactly what's wrong until we filter it through out other cognitive functions, though.

We can get caught off-guard that way; especially if we assume we're right and we know the right direction to take, but the INFP has unconsciously disagreed with us.

Excellent explanation. I can't speak for the INFPs either, but this describes almost exaclty my experiences. Your Ti is so good at clarifying your Ni.

With my INFPs, when they would have a a strong emotion, I would instantly feel it (wouldn't even have to be looking at them - and with any I'd had a strong bond with, I could be long distances from them and feel it). However, I won't know what the feeling is in reference to or what it means until I've had a chance to process it (often I just feel it, and don't even know who it is coming from and have to figure that out), and ask questions. But if I ask the wrong questions, the whole "I shouldn't have to explain it" factor throws my Ni off the trail and offers too many variables, so then I just make an assumption based on what I would be feeling if I were in that situation with those factors and most importantly if I were exhibiting those signals.

Good Example:
Me: Strong feeling hits, but feels external. I spend the next few minutes to several hours letting my Ni process what it is and who from, and finally settle upon a few possibilities. Then I call and ask "Are you okay?"
INFP: "Yeah, why?"
Me: "I just got this feeling (and describe it)"
INFP: Starts to cry, then tells me what caused the emotion.

Bad Example:
Me: Strong feeling hits, but feels external. I spend the next few minutes to several hours letting my Ni process what it is and who from, and finally settle upon a few possibilities. Then I call and ask "Are you okay?"
INFP: "What do you care?"
Me: "I just got this feeling (and describe it)"
INFP: Gets mad at me for bringing it up, makes random accusations about my intentions.
Me: Oookay... I'll let you get back to that...

I once dearly loved an INFP. We practically had a psychic soul connection. But the fact that we had different emotional responses and expectations eventually led to our demise as a couple (more than a dozen times, heh, we couldn't stay away from each other... it was too strong). One day she met an INTJ. They fell in love, got married, and the other night I helped them celebrate yet another wedding anniversary. The INTJ was able to do something with her that I never could. He simply lets her feelings be her feelings. They don't cause him to react, and most importantly her feelings don't cause him to react by offering (well intentioned) responses that cause more problems (like I did). He's much better for her than I ever could have been, and for that I fully support them being together because I dearly adore her, and have grown to love him like family - one of my best friends.

All that to say... he once told me "I used to think you two were just alike, but now that I've really gotten to know you, I realized that you two are nothing alike. You come to the same effects from totally different directions."

 

[DimensionX]

[MENTION=3660]StarsPer[/MENTION];

I'm curious to know how you would perceive an INFP that was without guilt if you kept it reasonably realistic and tried putting it into an everyday situational context.

 

[aeon]

They just don't like being direct because (maybe) they believe the other person should've picked up on how they feel because they already feel it themselves.

I don

 

[Morgain]

nothing is as disgusting for me as verbalizing emotions, feelings should be understood through subtleties, intuitively. if someone can't get it, needs to verbalize their feelings ad nauseum, then it's infeasible.

I totaly agree! verbalized emotions are disgusting because what you can tell someone is nothing more than a shadow of the emotion. Emotions should be understood intuitively. I can say I'm sad but it doesn't mean anything until the other person tries to step into your shoes to understand how you feel

 

[VH]

I totaly agree! verbalized emotions are disgusting because what you can tell someone is nothing more than a shadow of the emotion. Emotions should be understood intuitively. I can say I'm sad but it doesn't mean anything until the other person tries to step into your shoes to understand how you feel

You just explained Fi to me. Thanks!

 

[InvisibleJim]

I totaly agree! verbalized emotions are disgusting because what you can tell someone is nothing more than a shadow of the emotion. Emotions should be understood intuitively. I can say I'm sad but it doesn't mean anything until the other person tries to step into your shoes to understand how you feel

This is at the heart of true understanding of others.

 

[DimensionX]

Also [MENTION=3660]StarsPer[/MENTION] I should of asked this originally but I didn't, sorry, but I'll ask now, are you ok? (I'm expecting a lie or a reasonably detached generalization in response )

Feel free to pm me though, regardless. : )

 

[VH]

I do want to point out that the assumption that you shouldn't have to communicate how you feel leaves others with no ability to meet your expectations. As long as you're okay with that, then you don't have to. But, if you need people to understand where you are coming from, what you want, and most importantly what you expect, then you have to tell them.

 

[grt$5vb]

[MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] YEP.

 

[aeon]

I do want to point out that the assumption that you shouldn't have to communicate how you feel leaves others with no ability to meet your expectations. As long as you're okay with that, then you don't have to. But, if you need people to understand where you are coming from, what you want, and most importantly what you expect, then you have to tell them.

And perhaps most of all, meeting your needs.


cheers,
Ian

 

[Morgain]

I do want to point out that the assumption that you shouldn't have to communicate how you feel leaves others with no ability to meet your expectations. As long as you're okay with that, then you don't have to. But, if you need people to understand where you are coming from, what you want, and most importantly what you expect, then you have to tell them.

I agree that communication is necessary to draw the rough lines of what you are experiencing on the inside. But talking is child language. To really know what is ment you have to look at body language. You can say "I love you" in so many different ways and body language combined with your own gut feeling will tell you more accurately what is really ment.

As an example. I wouldn't easily say 'I love you' to someone since tha frace is often used to quickly and lost its meaning to me. Also it is to general to realy cover what I feel. But I communicate it in different ways, in the way I look at you, the way I tread you, the things I do for you, ... If the other person can not read these signals and I have to explain in words what I feel, that will kill it, it is like talking to a child.
Ofcourse most people are able to understand love signals while other signals are not so easily understood. But still if I have to explain a problem completely in words to many times (and even worse be misunderstood and being judged on that misunderstanding) then I would give up explaining.


so if your INFP is not telling you what is going on than a good advice is to look at his/her body language and learn how to interpret it. Be open minded and don't draw conclusions on words only.

 

[grt$5vb]

INFJs are extremely demonstrative, too, and I rarely say I love you & hate to hear it. It means less than nothing when used too soon, or too frequently. i mostly view it as manipulation.

 

[not sure]

I do want to point out that the assumption that you shouldn't have to communicate how you feel leaves others with no ability to meet your expectations. As long as you're okay with that, then you don't have to. But, if you need people to understand where you are coming from, what you want, and most importantly what you expect, then you have to tell them.

+1. I agree wholeheartedly. Tell me. I despise guessing games, have a very poor understanding of body language or coded language of any sort. Speak directly. I do understand this notion that words cannot adequately express feelings but English words are the language I speak most fluently. Sure it's frightening but it's efficient and I'm never offended, generally relieved, to have things come into the open. Pressuring me to learn to communicate in a way that I have not been able to master despite a lifetime of trying seems selfish so I would have to walk.

 

[grt$5vb]

Listen to the INTJ. They will teach you their ways of problem solving & direct communication. Be open, and let someone fix the miscommunication before it gets to big for both to handle. (Pot calling kettle black.)

 

[Morgain]

+1. I agree wholeheartedly. Tell me. I despise guessing games, have a very poor understanding of body language or coded language of any sort. Speak directly. I do understand this notion that words cannot adequately express feelings but English words are the language I speak most fluently. Sure it's frightening but it's efficient and I'm never offended, generally relieved, to have things come into the open. Pressuring me to learn to communicate in a way that I have not been able to master despite a lifetime of trying seems selfish so I would have to walk.

if you would ask me to translate my emotions into the english language you also asks me to communicate in a way that I have not been able to master efficiently. So that is selfish too...
besides body language is the oldest language on this planet, the most accurate and the most instinctive of them all.

so this may be the key of the problem. Some people are better in communicating in spoken language while others are better in body language/intuition and that makes it for both parties hard to communicate with oneanother

 

[not sure]

if you would ask me to translate my emotions into the english language you also asks me to communicate in a way that I have not been able to master efficiently. So that is selfish too...
besides body language is the oldest language on this planet, the most accurate and the most instinctive of them all.

so this may be the key of the problem. Some people are better in communicating in spoken language while others are better in body language/intuition and that makes it for both parties hard to communicate with oneanother

Yes. I acknowledge the need to make genuine attempts to understand feelings through non-verbal cues. I don't advocate a robotic communication style however, I would expect each partner to make attempts to meet halfway. I for instance, am prone to misinterpret non-verbal cues or less than direct language therefore, I will ask for clarification. If it isn't forthcoming then I absolve myself of responsibility. Also, due to my poor ability regarding non-verbal cues I may not even notice that there is a problem at all therefore, if the problem is to come to my attention it must be spoken.

In the same way, I recognize that others prefer to communicate love and attention non-verbally so making a genuine attempt to extend myself to them in that fashion is reasonable. However, they need to recognize that there is love in the attempt, even if the attempt is inadequate. If people cannot learn to compromise then they shouldn't even bother. I will never know another person as well as I know myself and it is unreasonable to burden anyone so.

 

[aeon]

...body language is the oldest language on this planet, the most accurate and the most instinctive of them all.