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[PAX] Brothers and sisters

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Barnabas, Feb 4, 2010.

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  1. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I guess the best way to label this is as a speech, Mostly i've had my head in thoughts of how the church on several occasions has dameged itself by getting to involved with the state, which led to others being hurt by it. My so maybe to the few christians on this thread this might mean something, if not oh well.


    Ladies and gentlemen look around you. This world is as fallen as ever, and I fear we may be contributing to it. We are at a time when more churches are closing their doors then ever in in the history of the church. I look around at this world and fear for it everyday, If our lord does truly come like a thief in the night then whom do you think he steal away. We have forgotten what our tenants are, have we abandoned are charge.


    We have left the station God gave us to dabble in worldly politics. We have put all our priority on how we can save the world and forget that we are only ambassadors. The work of salvation and restoration is that of Son of God, the Holy Spirit, and the Everlasting Father. Even more so we have in our attempts to save the world abandoned the Church.


    False prophet, Teachers, saviors, and doctrine are rampant in our own faith, and we seem not to have a care in the world. No instead of we deal with the world affairs. We put our time into arguing over the legality of the homosexual's right to marry, and with the most vehemence men spit out filth to support their argument as if to forget Gal 6:1
     
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  2. soulseeker

    soulseeker Permanent Fixture

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    by Church do you mean the people of God Church? or the structure church?
    if you mean the structure church including priests and all, I think that the popes, bishops and etc..during the Renaissance time are more worldly and power craving than now.
     
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  3. soulseeker

    soulseeker Permanent Fixture

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    I also think that........ it is okay that we have different religious traditions, beliefs, scriptures, etc.
    I think that there is nothing wrong with changing one's religion because for me, your religion is where you find God. And I have found him being a Catholic Christian.

    so, I think it would be nice if there would be no religious discrimination happening and if we would all be united to help face the problems of the world despite our religious differences, then that would really make a difference.

    Religions are different but salvation is universal
     
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  4. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I speak of all the churches in todays world, catholic, christian, lutheren, Baptist, etc... the list could go on withut end.

    We need to forgoe these useless sectarian differenses and unite in Christ alone. Lest we forget that history has a funny way of repeating itself.

    I would be weary of religious pluralism, it leads christians to believe things that they otherwise would see as naturally wrong.
     
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    #4 Barnabas, Feb 4, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  5. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
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    Why stop at sectarian differences - why not unite all mankind, by virtue of our shared humanity - our ephemerality? Therein lies compassion, love and kinship.
     
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  6. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    Men need a leader, but men are faulty. If we continue to lead one another we shall continue to kill one another.

    Best to put perfection at our head and be lead by God.
     
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  7. The Jester

    The love of and for the people around you is worth living for.
    Giving and receiving that love makes life worthwhile.
     
    #7 The Jester, Feb 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2010
  8. yumiii

    yumiii Community Member

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    Raising children from knowing what's right and what's wrong does not really stop them from doing wrong either way. Even Adam and Eve sinned, and weren't they supposed to be innocents? True enough, temptation was present, but no one forced them to sin. They acted out on the temptation alone.

    Anyway, good thread, but may I ask what exactly it is you're trying to get from this?
     
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  9. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    True awareness of what is wrong and what is right does not mean that every one will uphold these standards, but it should not be discluded that Children to generally listen to their parents and adopt their views. So if you practice what you preach chances are they start preaching to.

    As for this thread, I needed to get this out of my head, it's not directed to anybody specificly. Just me rambling.
     
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  10. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    Thread has been split as per Barnabas Request.
     
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  11. NaeturVindur

    NaeturVindur Cuddlemaster
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    Devil's Advocacy WOOT!!

    and here a Devil's Advocate makes a Grandiose entrance.
    [NOTE: I can be very sarcastic. Therefore know that if it seems offensive, I'm actually trying to be funny. I am well aware of what tends to offend people, and avoid it unless it is used in a comedic manner.]
    [ETANOTE: I posted this then noticed the PAX tag. If you don't want to respond to this, don't. Sorry.]

    Those words have resounded on this earth since the advent of religion. While this doesn't specifically null your statement, its certainly not new.

    I wouldn't say that this is actually a truly Christian idea. While it could very well be a fault of Christianity, its not unchristian. Christianity has always muddled around in politics. Actually, this time period is marked with considerably less involvement of religion in politics. Look to all the Kings of the Israelis in the Old Testament, who went around warring with and conquering a host of nations, all with the permission, blessing, and assistance of God. While I agree that the religious should have nothing to do with government (while acting as religious people. I have no problem with them being leaders so long as they're able to separate what they religiously believe and what is logical and legal.)

    I've always wondered: how do people decide who is and is not a false prophet? It seems like a very important question, and I can think of no way to answer it. For an example, lets say that there's this guy going around, saying he's talked with an angel of God. He's proclaiming the God has decided to change his rules and that there's a new way to get to heaven, and if you follow in your old ways, you will go to hell (lets assume, for simplicity's sake, that there is indeed a Heaven and Hell, and before the proposed rule change you were on the way to heaven). So this graph shows the options and results:
    [​IMG]
    Big decision, eh? How do you make it?

    Another thing I really don't understand of so many spirit based religions. If you don't support your body's needs, how can you survive long enough to make any difference to your soul. If this life is indeed the only shot at being good or bad, I'd like as much time here to be as good as I can. In this society, money is very much need to achieve this, to buy food and the like. If every christian up and stopped caring about money, you would all die rather quickly, as there are not enough non-Christians willing to support you all.

    uh, not today. Parents are no longer able to simply impose their own morals on their children simply by showing them love. The religious culture in our post-industrial society is highly eclectic. People very individually choose what they believe, and most of the time this differs from their parents. Good news is we no longer need religion to have moral people (I say that almost as though we ever did)!

    I like that bit. If any, it would give a slight rest-bit from people trying to “save” me.

    Why? The devil, from a purely christian perspective, is a servant to God (God is omnipotent and omniscient. Therefore the Devil cannot do anything that undermines Him. Therefore, every action of the Satan is with God's permission and blessing. Read the book of Job)

    “Unite in Christ alone.” I think you're forgetting some very important logistic issues. How do you unite, or really, who do you unite as. The entire thing among the plethora of sects is disagreeing on how to practice. Therefore, everyone who have to unite as one sect, either new or existing, but either way, many would have to abandon their ideas to accept the new sect's rules. Or the new religion would have to be one that allows all it followers to practice how they choose. However, several Christians believe that it is their duty to “lead” people to the “correct” way of practicing (your thread, case and point). Thus, the new unity would immediately either fall to in-fighting, sectarianism, or both as sectarian violence.


    And THERE in lies the problem with organized religion., as well as the virtues of “Do as ye will.” *sticks tongue out at chistians*


    Also, I don't get what you mean by the last bit, feel like explaining? I'm completely lost on all counts.

    Ah, but God has never led us but through people, so how are we supposed to be led with a human as the head?


    While I mostly agree, I must make a factual correction. Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Before that they were clueless. Because of this action no person can ever return to their pure innocence (according to christian dogma).

    While I normally lke this sentiment, I just want to say that such a unity is only worthwhile if it comes about simply by people accepting and respecting others variety and diversity. I will never accept such a thing if it comes about by people having to change who they are in order not offend another.
    I like you guys and what you say. :)
     
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    #11 NaeturVindur, Feb 5, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  12. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    There has been, throughout time, people who were defined by their faith and fidelity to the Gospel...we know many of their names. There have also been others whose loyalties were more mixed. In any case, they all lived in the midst of their times with about as much clarity as anyone can have in the present, but some found a way to truly transcend (and speak to) the times in which they lived and far beyond.

    So it is with us. All we can do is ally ourselves with those whose vision has centered on the teachings we have received. Their voice call to us from across the centuries. I suggest forming oneself not on the present age alone, but also on the vast experience of times past...it tends to shore one up against the ever-stormy present. The apostles, the martyrs, the saints...this is the community we must go to for true friendship. Here we find the unity we seek, and this among immense diversity.

    We may not start a movement...we may....it doesn't matter. We are not called to succeed, we are called to be faithful (as one such person has said). It seems inner, ongoing conversion happens one soul at a time...best to launch out as we are able. We may seem alone...we are not.
     
  13. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    [quote=N
     
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  14. NaeturVindur

    NaeturVindur Cuddlemaster
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    :jaw:
    I've never gotten decent answers to those kind of questions!! BRAVO!!!!!!

    There are some points I would like to discuss, but do not know what this "other thread" is. link, s'il te plait?
     
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  15. Matariki

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    I wonder when Christians will understand that they not politicians nor judges of man but instead advocates of god's law?

    Barnabas, you have never ceased to amaze me in your knowledge and faith.
    God has indeed blessed you.
     
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  16. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    [quote=N
     
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  17. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    One Mistake?

    I guess Jesus wasn't a prophet.
     
  18. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    Well, this is the thing about Christianity that, for me, was invoked by the very title of this thread. It is still very much at it's core a mystery religion. Much of the stuff we see externally within Christianity is, yes, a part of that (or in certain circumstances an abuse of that), but underneath, what we often don't see, is very much about inner change, conversion, and a new vision for human existance. This is not necessarily stuff for the masses. Yes, it can affect society and institutions, but still it is essentially a matter of personal, inner engagement.

    Life in the present (whenever that happens to be) is never clear or easy or tidy....much like today. The "brothers and sisters" however, had an interior compass that guided them, and we must do the same today regardless of the outcome. Some of their efforts actually changed very little in the external milieu, but it did have great meaning because it illuminated humanity in some way and it actually did matter. There is a very great mystery at work here and one at the very core of the Christian faith and it is highly relevant. It is simply an oddity that those who have brought the most to Christianity were often seen as failures, threats, and weirdos...but their inner life and the connection of this to how they lived, ah, this is what continues to mesmerize and inspire (after all, is this not the pattern of Christ himself?). I think we can take a lesson from all this as we seek to find our way in this world.

    There are many modes by which we can express faith in this world...but all of them, if they are to be authentic and meaningful...emanate from within. That is a very good place, a very sound place, to put the bulk of one's efforts. To do otherwise is to risk being be a noisy gong. Perhaps we have a little bit too much of that going on.
     
    #18 randomsomeone, Feb 5, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
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