Blessed are the peacemakers. | INFJ Forum

Blessed are the peacemakers.

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Kwistalline, Jul 12, 2008.

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  1. Kwistalline

    Kwistalline Permanent Fixture

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    This isn't a religious discussion, that just happens to be one of my favorite verses in the bible.

    The question is, how important is peace to you? How far are you willing to go in order to maintain/obtain peace? Would you compromise inner values? Do you believe that fighting for peace is the best way to obtain peace? What price (by actions, words, deeds) would you be willing to pay to have this priceless commodity?

    For that matter, what does having peace really mean? Is it more important to have inner peace or external peace?
     
  2. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    "Chaos gives you the Opportunities, Stability gives you the ability to act on them." - Shai Gar.

    In that sense It is extremely important to have peace.
     
  3. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

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    Peace is what I'm hoping will be the ultimate outcome after all of this. Complete peace would be perfect.
    I love it when a pastor or priest says, "Peace be with You" and everyone answers back, "And with you." Imagine if we all spoke like that in our day to day lives. Peace is another word that has taken a beating lately. "Peace out" - well, it's not quite the same.
     
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  4. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Peace is an SJ concept. There will always be conflict and there always should be. What is important is not that we try to maintain peace but that we learn to resolve conflict. Sadly, a lot of people don't know the difference and they perpetuate unnecessary conflict in the name of keeping the peace.
     
  5. sriv

    sriv Community Member

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    It may have been created by an INF and distorted by SJ.
     
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  6. gokartride

    gokartride Community Member

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    The verse in question speaks not so much of peace in a global or political sense (Jesus himself brought about a good bit of political conflict himself), but speaks of an inner attitude/orientation...a way of living. Remember, in this discourse he also speaks about the meek, the sorrowing, those spoken ill of for his sake.....the entire discourse points to a life orientation that connect us with the values of eternal kingdom/realm/cosmos. The fact that a peacemaker....having an inner orientation toward forgiveness and reconciliation...should be important points us to a paradox: lots of folks thought the Messiah would solve all political problems, uproot injustice, boot our the Romans, establish a new Kingdom, bring peace...and many characters in the Gospels had various ways of dealing with that particular viewpoint. Everything Jesus did, however, was flipped around.

    When we ourselves look at being a peacemaker it would benefit us, I think, to try to get a grasp of the entire discourse and understand the inner revolution that this whole message requires. For all the noteworty acts wrought by peacemakers throughout the ages, I suggest that true peacemaking is a lifestyle that is not totally disconnected from the other values taught in this sermon, especially when it comes to the very tough choices. I also think we literally trip over opportunities to be peacemakers every day....embracing these inner values makes peacemaking as natural as breathing.

    btw, I say this regardless of one's particular religious tradition....the ideas Jesus expressed are so universal they almost point to a cosmic construct of the way all things are hard-wired to function.
     
  7. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    It depends upon which "ideas Jesus expressed" you are talking about. Most of the ideas Jesus expressed can be traced to earlier philosophies that existed hundreds of years before him. What a great deal of theologians find amazing about Jesus aren't the ideas that he expressed but that he had such a broad grasp of philosophical concepts. Some people have even gone so far as to argue that he must have studied in China and other areas of the Orient.
     
  8. gokartride

    gokartride Community Member

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    I agree...it is amazing how many of these ideas permeate human thought in general. I'm not suprise me some of these concepts were articulated by others prior to Jesus....I've have run across many of them within Native American culture. I'd imagine the "studies in China" thing is a stretch, but it does make one wonder.
     
  9. GenlDevora

    GenlDevora Newbie

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    I love that part of the New Testament and the idea of being a peacemaker is wonderful, especially since we are INFJs or TJs. What we are is peace seekers and we often find ourselves in the role of peacemakers in order to find any peace.

    Any kind of scripture has several levels of meaning and this one does as well. I find that to be my reward for reading and pondering the scriptures.
     
  10. HenRick

    HenRick Community Member

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    Exactly what type do you consider yourself?
     
  11. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
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    I take it you don't relate to the passage?
     
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  12. HenRick

    HenRick Community Member

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    I understand it.
    I felt like an INFJ but now I feel like I don't have an Identity...again. :?
     
  13. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
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    Know the feeling hun, remember just because people share the same four letters in MBTI doesn't mean they should relate to anything others with the same letters say they identify with. You're an individual and have your own life experiances behind you that are unique. I know many, many INTJs around the different MBTI forums that I feel as though I have nothing in common with and at the same time I feel as though I share similarities with some feelers when I'm not one myself.
     
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  14. HenRick

    HenRick Community Member

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    Maybe it's how much you are of one thing for example
    71% Intuition 29% Sensing.

    It may also depend on personal experiences and character.
     
  15. Motor Jax

    Motor Jax randomness included
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    here are two that would seem quiet interesting;

    "To expect Peace, you must prepare for War." - unknown


    "Only the dead know the end of War." - Plato
     
  16. littlesapling

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    lol, and in the wise words of shai gar...
     
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  17. NobleKnight

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    After reading through this thread, I wonder if anyone actually read the beginning post by Kwistalline and simply take it at face value, or at least seek to understand what she was really asking. It amazes me that no one, except maybe for Shai Gar and sumone, actually answered the question. Notice the very first words Kwistalline opened with were, "This isn't a religious discussion...". But by God you somehow turned it into one. In no time flat, the question at hand was bypassed and we turn instead to questioning the meaning of the verse (which was not even the point of the thread) and the very origin of peace itself as presented by Jesus. I do enjoy and look forward to reading all of your responses to threads, but I just don't see how this gets us anywhere. I know, I know...these threads rarely stay precisely on topic and there is no reason to expect them to be devoid of tangents. Tangents are very helpful when placed correctly. But for once, could someone actually just take the question at face value instead of analyzing it, dicecting it, etc. As most of you are INFJ's, I think you can appreciate a focus on the big picture and not get lost in the analytical craziness over details. It doesn't matter if you like the verse or don't like the verse; if true peace starts with Jesus or not. If you don't like the verse, then its better if you refrain from replying and leave it for someone who actually wants to answer the question.
    Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm simply seeing what I perceive to be an unproductive (and sometimes negative) trend in a lot of threads and wanting to optimize the experience for all. Its not just dealing with this thread. I could post such a reply to many threads.
     
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  18. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Yah. People here tend to reply to their own inner conversation that was stimulated by the original post, even though they're not replying to the original post in these threads...

    But yes, I answered.
     
  19. NobleKnight

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    Yes, I understand. Speaking from inner inspiration is very helpful for us INFJ's, but many times, this is at the expense of the subjective values at hand. I believe INFJ's (including myself) can learn a lot and develope ourselves and each other better by "answering the question", using our valuable intuition of course but not using that point of inner inspiration as our starting point. If people pose a question in the forum, nine out of ten times they don't want the question dicected and analyzed. They want genuine answers. My point is it tends to not go anywhere. The original poster might as well have started the thread by simply typing "peace" and then posting it only to watch the analytical mayhem insue.
     
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  20. ZenCat

    ZenCat Waving Sage

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    This is the part of your question that my whole mind zeroed in on.

    I think if each individual were to seek the path to their own inner peace (but it would have to be each and every individual in the world), the need to find a solution to the absence of external peace would be eliminated.

    I don't actually think it will ever happen, so I don't think there's any way for our civilization to "create" peace without that total individual commitment to it.

    So my answer is: I believe it is more important to have inner peace. For everyone.
     
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    #20 ZenCat, Oct 6, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2008

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