Australian Christians seem as nice as American Christians | INFJ Forum

Australian Christians seem as nice as American Christians

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Satya, Dec 11, 2008.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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  2. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    heh, evil twats.
     
  3. OP
    Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Undermine the right of a child to have a mother and a father? How about children who don't have either? Don't they deserve the chance at some semblance of family as opposed to none? I can't wait to start hearing this argument over here in the states.
     
  4. Mannit

    Mannit Community Member

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    I seem to find in your posts a generalisation of Christians. We're not all the same. We're not all bad people. We're not all narrow-minded homophobic conservatives.

    So please don't lump us all in the same category.

    Yes, I'm Australian.
    Yes, I'm a Christian. Catholic to be exact.
    Yes, I attend Church every week.
    Yes, faith is important to me.

    Two men or two women want a baby? Don't see the problem.
     
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    Satya

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    Sorry, I was a bit peeved when I posted the video.

    I often feel I'm at war with Christian hubris. I've come to detest those Christians who cause shame in others, not because others can in any way hurt them, but merely for their own gratification and some twisted belief that treating others poorly proves their own greatness and will bring everyone closer to God.

    But I have nothing against Christians who see all human beings as worthy and deserving of respect and love.

    It just happens I encounter the former more than the latter and I tend to forget the latter exists.
     
  6. Mannit

    Mannit Community Member

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    That's ok.

    There are plenty of us around ;)
     
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  7. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
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    OMG! THE HORROR! THE INHUMANITY! DONT THEY KNOW GAYS BREED MORE GAYS!

    That bugs me no end. Children need safe, loving home environments. You'll never get me to believe that a heterosexual couple can provide that while a homosexual couple can't. I make a point of avoiding happy-clappers like that, they believe their holier-than-thou religion excuses their bigoted discrimination.
     
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  8. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

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    This cartoon pretty much illustrates how I feel about the word 'christian' or 'christianity' these days.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Freedom

    Freedom Community Member

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    Hi Satya! I'm a Christian, and I too, hate the hippocrates who say they're Christians and therefore, they know it all! I've been hurt by these type of people, and some "leaders" are actually rather narcissistic to take the pastoral role (which should be the server role). Just don't toss the whole basket of apples out if some are rotten. A lot of us are caring human beings and do not agree with all the crap some preachers try to force down our throats. (off course, we end up being "rebels" and "witches" since "rebellion is as of witchcraft") I don't fall for those poor manipulation anymore! I understand where you're coming from, because I suffered judgement as a Christian, BY Christians, and today when I see those horrible people acting "in the name of God", I feel embarrassed because I'm not one who would do such thing, because that's not what Jesus "would do" and finally because it causes generalizations that I'm not part of. Not all Christians are arrogant bastards. I just wanted to take that out of my chest.
     
    #9 Freedom, Dec 14, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
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  10. TK*

    TK* Community Member

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    I don't think homosexual parents can't be good parents...but still, I think a heterosexual couple would be more balanced for the child's well-being. Think of the teasing and prejudice that'll come with having homosexual parents. How awful to grow up with that kind of environment.

    I'm all for it...don't get me wrong, but it's a little unfair to the child. The child of a homosexual couple is guaranteed unnecessary hardships they would not have with a heterosexual couple. That's my only concern. Until homosexual parenting becomes socially acceptable, I would be reluctant to place a child with a homosexual couple first over a heterosexual one.
     
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  11. OP
    Satya

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    Tell that to this kid...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qf0puHJ-KM&feature=channel_page

    Particularly the end of the song.
     
    #11 Satya, Dec 15, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  12. TK*

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    OK...that's ONE kid...and the only reason he is popular is BECAUSE he has two fathers! No one would want to hear him sing if homosexual parenting wasn't so taboo right now. Good for that kid. But let's talk about the rest of them. (I did like the song, btw, very catchy!)

    I'm not saying that ALL children of homosexual couples will face trauma/hardships, but let's be honest about it and say it won't be the social "norm." Not that the social norm is always good...but it'll raise questions and controversy for the child and put that child in situations s/he would not normally be in if s/he were raised by a hetero couple.

    That's all I'm saying. And I believe we should limit the amount of stress we can on a child by placing them with the happiest/balanced home environment possible. I don't think homosexual parents can provide that stability right now with the hullabaloo going on today. When this whole mess about homosexual parenting ceases to be controversial, I would feel a lot better about placing a child with those couples. It'll be happier for both parent and child without society pointing its finger in their faces. This isn't to say a child right now with homosexual parents will be unhappy, but it increases his/her chance for lack of social acceptance, discrimination, teasing, etc.
     
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  13. OP
    Satya

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    Good point. We should limit stress as much as possible. So we should probably deny people who have funny sounding last names from adopting children. And of course, we should deny anyone who has an occupation that might embarrass an adopted child from being able to adopt. And we don't want anyone who tells corny jokes from being able to adopt kids, because can you imagine how embarrassing it would be for an adopted child to have their adoptive parents tell one in front of their friends?

    Or we could just recognize that kid's will be teased and bullied regardless of whether they live with straight parents or gay parents. It is a fact of life. And maybe we could judge potential parents on...oh I don't know...their ability to parent! Or maybe that is just a silly idea.

    I mean obviously if both a homosexual couple and a heterosexual couple walk into an adoption agency, and they want to adopt a child, even if the heterosexual couple is less educated, less financially stable, and less emotionally secure, they should most definitely get a child over the homosexual couple just on the basis that they are heterosexual. Right?

    A controversy is just a disagreement about what should be done. Not allowing a gay couple to adopt just because they are gay is a decision based on an irrational fear.
     
    #13 Satya, Dec 15, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  14. TK*

    TK* Community Member

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    Noooooo...that's just stupid, Satya! Hahaha! I don't think you're getting my point because you're too busy being defensive. Don't be defensive...read what I'm writing. I'm agreeing with you that gays have the right to adopt children. That should not be denied to them. The best parents possible should be able to adopt, in some cases, (like the ridiculous scenario you described) a homosexual couple would obviously be the better pick...

    Here's what I'm trying to say for the THIRD time:
    Say two couples are perfect in every way, one is hetero one is homo, due to the fact that homosexuals are being discriminated against (sometimes even violently let alone verbally/legally) it would probably be better for the child to be placed with the hetero couple. Again, this is not to say that ALL children with homosexual parents are going to be the brunt of societal tormenting, but it sure does increase the odds.

    Having a funny last name or telling stupid jokes is not even on the same plane as this, and you know it, so why bother making that your argument? I'll agree and say that teasing is a fact of life...but there's a difference here.

    You even did research supporting my point! Some of those folks in your class wanted GENOCIDE for homosexuals! There are some people out there that feel so strongly about gays that they could/do HURT people! Why subject a child to that? If you want me to dig up some articles on gay-related hate crimes, I will. But c'mon, Satya! It kinda goes without saying. It sucks for homosexual couples that this is an issue...but sadly, it is.

    I think homosexual parents can be just as good as heterosexual parents. I don't think sexual orientation dictates how good a parent you'll be. I hope you read all the way through so I don't have to write this out again. If you still disagree, I respect your opinion. We can agree to disagree on this forum. I'm not attacking you or anyone else here, I'm just stating my opinion.
     
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  15. OP
    Satya

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    That scenario is dumb, because if the homosexual parents are perfect parents, then they will move if their child is facing any excessive bullying as a result of having gay parents. Not to mention that being perfect parents, they would be able to handle any emotional difficulties the child might face.

    I think you are exaggerating the plane that this is on. There have been 8 studies on same sex families done since the 1980's, and all of them have found that children raised in same sex homes fair no better or worse than children raised in heterosexual homes. This is now such a recognizable phenomenon that it has been given the name the "No Difference" hypothesis.

    There are people in my class who wanted genocide for Christians, Jews, Atheists, Arabs, Blacks, etc. What is your point? I doubt you think those groups should not be allowed to adopt.

    I don't think you are attacking me or my opinion. Good parents are good parents. It doesn't matter if they are gay, straight, black, white, or whatever. It does not fall upon a social worker to use the circumstances of the culture to dictate who would provide a better home. Social change will not come about by treating gay parenting as a stigma, especially when there is no evidence to suggest that a child will face anymore "trauma" growing up in a same sex home than they would in a heterosexual home.

    In fact, a longitudinal study on lesbian parents has found virtually no child molestation. Compared to heterosexual homes where there is a consistent rate of sexual abuse toward children. The reason for that is pretty clear. The heterosexual male accounts for 91% of child molestations. So would you use the potential trauma of a child being molested by their adoptive father as a reason to not adopt to heterosexual parents?
     
    #15 Satya, Dec 15, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  16. TK*

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    *sigh* OK Satya.
     
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  17. OP
    Satya

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    :m191:

    I am one social worker who knows how to do his job.
     
  18. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    You have yet to deal with me. :m129:
     
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  19. OP
    Satya

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    Your day will come. :m194:
     
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  20. TheLastMohican

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