Atheists and depression

[Lark]

I know a lot of atheists who suffer from depression, also there's a lot of prominant atheists who either explicitly have diagnosis of depression or appear like they do, for instance Stephen Fry, Darren Brown, Ricky Jervais etc.

Anyway, my question is do you think that the depression could be a result of the atheism or the atheism a result of the depression? Maybe they are two completely coincidentially correlated factors.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Funny.

 

[magister343]

I don't think that there is much correlation between atheism and depression per se. However, there is a significant correlation between depression and a lack of a strong social support network. Churches and other religious organizations often provide such support networks. An atheist in an overwhelmingly religious society is at a strong social disadvantage, which can of course increase the risk of depression. Religious persons living in communities hostile towards their religious beliefs would tend to suffer very similar problems.

 

[Cornerstone]

Well, Stephen Fry has Bipolar disorder.

Have you heard Ricky Gervais talk about his atheism? He has the dumbest reason and I've heard him tell this story a lot.

Apparently as a boy, he mentioned God around his uncle who said "You don't actually believe in God, do you?".
He saw his mother shush him and took that to mean she was hiding something...that something being that God didn't exist.

I think philosophically, his atheist comedy is WEAK. Reading the Bible and pulling faces because it is nuts?
The Invention of Lying I thought was awful. Just basic. Nothing wrong with that, but he is so arrogant and self-assured and yet has not even skimmed the surface.

I was probably depressed looking back. I masked it and used intoxicants, sleeping, being a dick to people and a weird cocky attitude as coping mechanisms.
Barely consciously, I was always thinking about God and the meaning of life etc and it really was a renewed sense of spirituality that got me out of my funk.
It was by not getting worked up about things and not needing to validate my own meagre existence by exaggerating it with drink or by knocking others down.
I can remember the moment when it clicked that I was more than just 'little me'. It didn't change anything physically immediately but I stopped being my own worst enemy inside my own mind. My body still has all manner of urges that are classically unholy but I am more mindful of everything. I stopped seeing myself as the victim but admitted I'd been hurt.

It's kinda crazy...but good.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Yeah Im sorry. The initial post seemed to be a deliberate attempt to push the buttons of those people that dont believe in ANY gods. I being one of those people. It also seemed to imply that by being atheist there is something wrong with you, that you couldn't possibly be happy. It is this exact thought process that makes me want to put religious people in their place and show them whats really up.

As an example lets talk about how many people have been killed in the past and are being killed today because they dont share the beliefs of the others in their vicinity. Perhaps killing people because they do not believe in the same thing you do is what contributes to your happiness?

 

[Shaqie]

I used to suffer from depression and believe me, the Bible wasn't the cure for it, neither the anti-depressants.

 

[Cornerstone]

I used to suffer from depression and believe me, the Bible wasn't the cure for it, neither the anti-depressants.

Are you sure you were thumping it properly?

 

[the]

Athiests are the smartest people around, just like an infj is so smart and depressed an atheist must also be smart and depressed. Its just science man.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Yeah Im sorry. The initial post seemed to be a deliberate attempt to push the buttons of those people that dont believe in ANY gods. I being one of those people. It also seemed to imply that by being atheist there is something wrong with you, that you couldn't possibly be happy. It is this exact thought process that makes me want to put religious people in their place and show them whats really up.

As an example lets talk about how many people have been killed in the past and are being killed today because they dont share the beliefs of the others in their vicinity. Perhaps killing people because they do not believe in the same thing you do is what contributes to your happiness?

I also thought that the thread might have an overtone of high-handedness, however, I wonder if that is coming from the thread or from me.


In respect of the topic, if there is a connection between faith/atheism and depression, it might just be interesting to speculate.

Depression always seems to me to be connected to anger. If anger cannot be expressed, or acted upon in a constructive way then depression seems to follow - almost as though depression is the effect of not being able to do anything about bad stuff in one's life. The constraint on constructive activity in the face of negative experience/situations/etc. may be external or internal. For instance, if one is under strong social pressure to pretend that there's nothing wrong, then depression can arise. On the other hand, if handling problems is acceptable, but one has been conditioned to denying problems (by overbearing influences, or personal scruples) depression also would seem to be knocking on the door. Finally, it may be that some negative stimuli do not admit of a solution - eg. suffering - personal or in others.

Perhaps faith helps with some of these "closed situations" through various means. Perhaps some forms of religiosity may even exacerbate depression.

Acceptability of acknowledging difficulty: some religions promote a "holier than thou" attitude, some promote a seeking of humility (an admittance of the truth of oneself). On balance religions promoting humility - and a love for the humble would seem to enable a coming to terms with life's problems.

Social acceptance of dealing with difficulty: some religions might shun all but the most upstanding and measured types - this would seem to hinder dealing with depression. On the other hand, some religions promote a non-judgmental care for each other. From personal experience, I find the acceptance and encouragement I experience in confession to be a great burden-lifter, aside from the sin/absolution aspect of it.

Dealing with difficulties which cannot be overcome: Suffering -personal or in others- can in itself be depressing because there is often little, or nothing than can be done - it seems so futile. This kind of suffering can be that associated with those of old age, the physically injured/disabled, cancer, other incurable illnesses, personal loss, death, etc. Religions which attach meaning to suffering and loss - or see suffering as an opportunity for internal personal growth/strengthening would seem to offer an exit door to a closed, depressed situation - in that suffering is not denied, or resented - but acceptance is sought and a transformation of physical/emotional pain into a spiritual growth is sought.


As for atheism - many of the principles for overcoming depression noted above can probably be found outside religion, but this seems to come down to luck in finding certain more philosophical people in one's life - and the luck of being of a more philosophical outlook oneself.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I don't know if there is a correlation, but I have noticed that the more scientific I am in regards to my outlook on life, the worse the health of my relationships. Being analytical, requiring empirical evidence for everything, and correcting people for misinformation stymies the growth of relationships. I remember for a time I was an atheist, although I never really felt like one inside, and I grew away from many important people in my life. I felt emotionally colder and probably came across that way to others. I eventually moved away from atheism though; anytime I told someone it felt wrong coming out of my mouth, like I wasn't being honest. Whenever I'm having doubts I prefer agnosticism because that seems more open to a change in opinion as I search for truth. Anyways, kind of what [MENTION=2648]magister343[/MENTION] said, atheism can be isolating and it is that isolation from people, which regular church goers lack, which can either cause depression or exasperate its symptoms. I add that if someone is an atheist, it is imperative to make some sort of social life possible.

Also, about Ricky Gervais, [MENTION=5559]Cornerstone[/MENTION]: I can relate to the stupidity of my own reasons for becoming atheist. I worked with a woman who was a self-ascribed militant atheist. She felt my reasons for reverting to Catholicism was nonsensical. I discussed with her how reading Tolkien rekindled a fire for something greater in life and how I was interested in the mystical aspects of Catholicism, e.g., the candles, incense, chants, etc. She pretty much laughed at me and made me feel infantile. As a result, in an equally stupid decision, I turned away from Catholicism for being made fun of. But later, I returned to Tolkien for inspiration for the animism that is present in his work, as opposed to the Catholicism that is also present. Over the years, I've used my own spirituality as a way to mend the loss I have felt by not believing in anything and to recognize that humans are naturally spiritual beings and there is nothing illogical or stupid about exploring the unknown. I hope I have not offended any atheists on this forum. I think that there are people who just aren't as naturally as spiritual as other people. It is probably a trait, like empathy; some people have it more than others. It is neither inherently good or bad, just different ways to view and interpret the world around us.

Even if I agree with the scientific understanding of the universe, I just don't feel that is all there is too it; I have strong inclination toward spirituality that cannot be ignored if I am to feel mentally healthy. I won't participate in organized religion for many reasons and I no longer make fun of people who are religious, but I am opposed to having someone else's beliefs pushed upon me; whether it's atheism or Christianity, New Age, etc. I need to find my own spiritual path. I look at the years I was an atheist as my "douche bag" years.

 

[LucyJr]

The stereotype of the depressed atheist is so well known that I actualy heard people saying about atheists who aren't depressed that they aren't really atheists after all, they are just pretending to be.
Most of the famous atheists in history were battling with depression.

On a personal side, I can testify this is true. When I was a atheist, I couldn't see any reason to get out of bed in the morning. Yes, I could pass that feeling and live with life on, but it was really hard to lie myself, when I was under the constant impression that everything I would do was whithout meaning, that everything was a illusion after all.

 

[LucyJr]

Moreover, I think its correct to say that depression is something corellated with the psyche of a man, not with a specific worldview.
Thus, there can be christians, jews, pantheists and atheists who can be depressed.

But the real distincion is that christianity and the majority of religions does not have any depressing "outcomes", whereas atheism does...the absence of morality, of God, of meaning. So in my opinion, if atheism is taken literary, atheism will involuntary and invariably lead to a morbid depression.

But on the other hand, you have the "new" atheists, like Sam Harris and Daniel Dennet, or Richard Dawkings. And conform to most of their criticism, these are people who spread a false goespel of atheism, a "easy" one, a "light" one. They are just like the christian preachers who say "Ask Jesus to come into your heart and you will be saved by faith. If you have faith, no need for deeds, you will be saved". We call these christians "wordly" christians, superficial, happy-go-lucky christians.
The "new" atheist is a "wordly" atheist. A happy-go-lucky fellow, who is very happy there is no morality after all, and meaning, so he can do everything what he wants to do, whithout any guilt (apparently, because guilt will always come).

The most important aspect of the "wordly" atheist, is that he doesn't understand the consequences of morality, and thus he doesn't understand the consequences of a lack of morality either. He is very happy he can indulge in his amoral fantasies he had since a long time ago, and now he finaly gets a solid foundation, a intellectual one, for escaping the "iron" of morality.

Thus we have "happy and smart" atheists. But in all honesty, and anyone can verify this, if one is a true atheist...is very hard, almost impossible, to not be depressed after all. The old guys knew this, especialy Nietzche.

 

[Skarekrow]

I find myself falling somewhere in-between it all….I have had depression issues now and then in my life…I have also been religious and not…they were not related.
There is a correlation between people who are highly religious and the ability to remain positive in spite of things like cancer and other illnesses…which helps to bring about positive results, as there is quite a bit of data on positive/negative outlook and your health and well being. This is most likely because they believe that a God is watching out for them and helping them.
There is also quite a bit of data on people who are more intelligent than the norm being more prone to depression.
However, I am not about to jump to the conclusion that - “depressed atheist” = “more intelligent”.
So lets all try to avoid such generalizations.
I don’t think that Atheists in general are more depressed…I think some religious people look to people who are atheists with a perception of pity, or sadness, a lacking because they have not found God for themselves…and in turn this makes them feel a certain sense of well-being and superiority that they have…sorry, but that is not clear and true perception…it is more their personal theory and inference.

 

[j654dgj7]

It's tough to say. Studies have shown that people who believe in an afterlife live longer, and that people who feel like they are on a holy mission also tend to live longer than atheists. Maybe the real reason for atheists living shorter lives stems from a lack of direction and meaning in existence. Maybe not.

One of the things that I feel are vital to say is that human beings are not perfect. We can't sustain happiness. There's no way to appease everything that is going on inside of us. Maybe we were just made with a survival "tick" that demands a sense of higher purpose from us, and if we don't have it, we just become complacent and start playing golf.

I would love to see a survey with the exact same purpose, but replaced it with "atheists and people who play golf or have a meaningful hobby". No as catchy, but you know.

 

[Eventhorizon]

The stereotype of the depressed atheist is so well known that I actualy heard people saying about atheists who aren't depressed that they aren't really atheists after all, they are just pretending to be.
Most of the famous atheists in history were battling with depression.

On a personal side, I can testify this is true. When I was a atheist, I couldn't see any reason to get out of bed in the morning. Yes, I could pass that feeling and live with life on, but it was really hard to lie myself, when I was under the constant impression that everything I would do was whithout meaning, that everything was a illusion after all.

I have personally found that religious people are depressed when not attempt ing to justify thelselves in regard to their own beliefs.

 

[Eventhorizon]

The idea that somehow people are better off with religion is not only laughable, its outright dangerous.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Ite probable that religious people are happier because they know less of whats really going on around them.

 

[Shaqie]

The idea that somehow people are better off with religion is not only laughable, its outright dangerous.

I agree 70 000 %

Having a set world view might be great for communal purposes in todays world, where idiots thrive in every corner, but in reality these set world beliefs where discovered and spread years and years ago, when knowledge was far more limited than today, meaning that these set world view could in fact be unreliable, or maybe even downright dangerous.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I found that when I was religious I had a much more difficult time dealing with life's misfortunes. I remember praying incessantly when I found out my grandfather had terminal lung cancer and prayed that God would intervene. I had to have been about twelve years old. Of course, he died and I felt betrayed by God because he could've removed the growth if he so desired. That wasn't the only time either; when my uncle died of AIDS, another uncle and my grandmother died of lung cancer, and a teenage cousin who recently died of a brain tumor. There has been extensive forms of abuse my immediate family. I had an uncle that was sodomized when he was five by a thirty year old neighbor, a ten year old aunt that was raped by her sister's twenty five year old husband. I've had an uncle that tried to strangle his wife to death. Much death, abuse, and neglect in my family. In my eyes that has pretty much ruled out an all powerful God that answered prayers. I am often flummoxed by those who say all of this was part of God's plan and that everything happens for a reason. Really? That sounds like a sick and disturbing way to look at the horrible things that exist in the world. Why would a God do these horrible things to others to test my own faith? That sort of mentality is disturbingly selfish. The best answers I've ever heard was: I don't know why. I don't know if there's a God. I don't know why we're here. Those are genuine responses and don't try to proclaim a literal interpretation of the bible, or absolute authority through their faith, or a presumption of what will happen when people die. In my mind, no one knows any of this with any amount certainty. It is all based on faith, intuition, life experience, and an imagination for what is possible or what makes the most sense. So while I think that most people would be happier with some sort of spiritual beliefs, having a rigid belief that isn't reflective of reality can cause much doubt and depression as it sets you up for nothing except bitter disappointment.

 

[Shaqie]

I found that when I was religious I had a much more difficult time dealing with life's misfortunes. I remember praying incessantly when I found out my grandfather had terminal lung cancer and prayed that God would intervene. I had to have been about twelve years old. Of course, he died and I felt betrayed by God because he could've removed the growth if he so desired. That wasn't the only time either; when my uncle died of AIDS, another uncle and my grandmother died of lung cancer, and a teenage cousin who recently died of a brain tumor. There has been extensive forms of abuse my immediate family. I had an uncle that was sodomized when he was five by a thirty year old neighbor, a ten year old aunt that was raped by her sister's twenty five year old husband. I've had an uncle that tried to strangle his wife to death. Much death, abuse, and neglect in my family. In my eyes that has pretty much ruled out an all powerful God that answered prayers. I am often flummoxed by those who say all of this was part of God's plan and that everything happens for a reason. Really? That sounds like a sick and disturbing way to look at the horrible things that exist in the world. Why would a God do these horrible things to others to test my own faith? That sort of mentality is disturbingly selfish. The best answers I've ever heard was: I don't know why. I don't know if there's a God. I don't know why we're here. Those are genuine responses and don't try to proclaim a literal interpretation of the bible, or absolute authority through their faith, or a presumption of what will happen when people die. In my mind, no one knows any of this with any amount certainty. It is all based on faith, intuition, life experience, and an imagination for what is possible or what makes the most sense. So while I think that most people would be happier with some sort of spiritual beliefs, having a rigid belief that isn't reflective of reality can cause much doubt and depression as it sets you up for nothing except bitter disappointment.

I can already hear a zealous preacher saying "This boy does not get it, will he ever do?".

PS: Duuude I have become such a religion hater .