Are you going insane? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Are you going insane?

Long story short I see it differently. Were we lied to? Yes, but we were lied to by Democrats and Republicans alike. You like to say Bush wasnt a bright one and if we go on the fact he has such a hard time speaking I think everyone would agree. But let me ask you this. Why is it that Bush (younger) has such a hard time talking when his father, mother and brother do not? Think about it.
 
Long story short I see it differently. Were we lied to? Yes, but we were lied to by Democrats and Republicans alike. You like to say Bush wasnt a bright one and if we go on the fact he has such a hard time speaking I think everyone would agree. But let me ask you this. Why is it that Bush (younger) has such a hard time talking when his father, mother and brother do not? Think about it.

Sure both democrats and republicans lied because both those parties work for the same central controllers. They are both different arms from the same control octopus which have been created to make people think they have freedom of choice in the current system

I'm not quite following what you are saying about Bush, what do you mean?
 
Its all political really when you look at what the definition of politics is; also our society is very centrally controlled but it has many arms....like an octopus
Hell no, it's not. Let alone the fact that there is no such thing as our society. I live in Australia, you live in the UK, most folks here are from the US. These are all very different countries.

Trying to explain complex phenomena by introducing a single malicious factor which spoiled a paradise lost is no different from explaining lightning hitting a tree by an angry evil spirit. Do you actually believe that the universe was especially crafted for you to open your mouth and then everything would just magically fall there, and then someone evil decided that they want your share?

Again, I don't consider it insanity though, just very flawed and undeveloped reasoning. But this is not the topic here.
 
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Hell no, it's not. Let alone the fact that there is no such thing as our society. I live in Australia, you live in the UK, most folks here are from the US. These are all very different countries.

Trying to explain complex phenomena by introducing a single malicious factor which spoiled a paradise lost is no different from explaining lightning hitting a tree by an angry evil spirit.

Again, I don't consider it insanity though, just very flawed and undeveloped reasoning. But this is not the topic here.

So you think there's no cross over between the US, UK and Australia?

So you're not familiar with the United Nations? You know that prototype world government....have you heard of Agenda 21?

What about the commonwealth?

What about the shared culture between these countries? What about the corporations that span these countries? What about the fact the central banks of these countries are owned by the same people? Is the UK queen still on your currency? Do you have the freemasons in australia because they are in the US and UK?

What about the ideology of 'capitalism' and more specifically the strain called 'neoliberalism' that all these countries are following?

You think there is no commonality to these countries? Come on man the boundaries get very blurry when you really get down to it

The topic here is insanity. I mentioned a good documentary before called 'the century of the self' i strongly recommend it as a way to see how ideas are passed between these countries to shape our societies
 
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So you think there's no cross over between the US, UK and Australia?

So you're not familiar with the United Nations? You know that prototype world government....have you heard of Agenda 21?

What about the commonwealth?

What about the shared culture between these countries? What about the corporations that span these countries? What about the fact the central banks of these countries are owned by the same people? Is the UK queen still on your currency? Do you have the freemasons in australia because they are in the US and UK?

What about the ideology of 'capitalism' and more specifically the strain called 'neoliberalism' that all these countries are following?

You think there is no commonality to these countries? Come on man the boundaries get very blurry when you really get down to it

The topic here is insanity. I mentioned a good documentary before called 'the century of the self' i strongly recommend it as a way to see how ideas are passed between these countries to shape our societies
Please refer to the implicit question in the second paragraph, then I'll answer your question. Do you believe a single malicious factor spoiled a paradise lost?

Also, staying on topic would be appreciated.
 
Please refer to the implicit question in the second paragraph, then I'll answer your question. Do you believe a single malicious factor spoiled a paradise lost?

Also, staying on topic would be appreciated.

Which question? What paradise lost?

I am on topic. We are trying to define insanity and look at why the numbers of cases of disorders has increased. I'd suggest that is related to the method used by psychiatry which itself is used to sculpt societal behaviours
 
Which question? What paradise lost?

I am on topic. We are trying to define insanity
I hate it when people play dumb. Normally it means that they have no answer.

Let me quote you: "also our society is very centrally controlled but it has many arms....like an octopus"

Your line of reasoning is that there is a single malicious factor to be blamed for all ills. Correct?

No, you're not on topic. You're discussing Bush, conspiracies, etc. basically pushing your agenda. I don't see how it's relevant.
 
I hate it when people play dumb. Normally it means that they have no answer.

No i have an answer. I'm also very happy to give it to you.

i'll do my best just now but it is 2 in the morning here and past my bedtime lol. What i can't fit in here however i will be very happy to post tomorrow if you're interested

I may ask you questions sometimes though to clarify what your position is so that i can answer more accurately.

Let me quote you: "also our society is very centrally controlled but it has many arms....like an octopus"

Your line of reasoning is that there is a single malicious factor to be blamed for all ills. Correct?

A 'single malicious factor'....yeah i'm still in the process of clarifying that though. I can outline it pretty well in its tangible terms but it gets to an intangible level as well and you can read my posts elsewhere where i try and offer some theories regarding that. So one thing i've spoken about as a factor in the shaping of our western society is the role of psychopathy....i see that as a malicious factor

No, you're not on topic. You're discussing Bush, conspiracies, etc. basically pushing your agenda. I don't see how it's relevant.

This is all related

I'll give you a for instance....

So in that documentary i mentioned before it talks about the influence of the psychiatrist freud on our society. So one way in which frued influenced our society is in that his nephew Edward Bernays took his uncles ideas about how humanity thinks and feels about things and used it to create the public relations industry in the US; he is often referred to as the 'father of public relations'

But Bernays was able to do this because he had support and was patronised by some very powerful people....these people exercsie a lot of centralised power. For example these people control the big corporations and they got bernays to launch a PR campaign to encourage women to smoke so that they could sell more cigarettes but those same people are also tied to government and they got bernays to carry out a PR campaign to turn public opinion in favour of military intervetion in Guatamala

I think the nexus between big business in the US and the US government became pretty clear in the military intervention in central america by the government on behalf of the US based United Fruits Company
 
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So the OP is asking about why there are more disorders and more people being diagnosed with those disorders

The people behind the DSM are the same people who patronised Edward Bernays. They want to maintain society a certain way and that means controlling the public. Psychiatry is a method by which they acheive this

Any behaviour they deem a threat to their system they will label a 'disorder' and this will then justify their 'treatment' of the patient which can involve anything from drugging to full incarceration without trial

These malicious people also own the big pharmaceutical companies so they make money out of the drugging of the populace

They are basically trying to say that most people are in some way defective when in fact people are just anxious because they are not happy in the system created, shaped and upheld by the malicious central controllers. Instead of changing the system to alleviate peoples anxiety they just drug them to shut them up and to make lots of $$$$$$$
 
No i have an answer. I'm also very happy to give it to you.

i'll do my best just now but it is 2 in the morning here and past my bedtime lol. What i can't fit in here however i will be very happy to post tomorrow if you're interested

I may ask you questions sometimes though to clarify what your position is so that i can answer more accurately.
No problem, but probably best in a different thread which is more relevant to it. You're welcome to come over and leave a message.

Regarding the psychiatry, I kinda outlined my position above.

A 'single malicious factor'....yeah i'm still in the process of clarifying that though. I can outline it pretty well in its tangible terms but it gets to an intangible level as well and you can read my posts elsewhere where i try and offer some theories regarding that. So one thing i've spoken about as a factor in the shaping of our western society is the role of psychopathy....i see that as a malicious factor

This is all related

Well yes, I read your posts here and in other topics (I have to admit, it's too long at times so I may have missed something but I get the general gist). I think most posts do point to a central factor or what can be described as "them".

I don't want to delve too much into this here, but I'm happy to do it in relevant threads. Yes, I'm being pedantic :) .
I'll give you a for instance....

So in that documentary i mentioned before it talks about the influence of the psychiatrist freud on our society. So one way in which frued influenced our society is in that his nephew Edward Bernays took his uncles ideas about how humanity thinks and feels about things and used it to create the public relations industry in the US; he is often referred to as the 'father of public relations'

But Bernays was able to do this because he had support and was patronised by some very powerful people....these people exercsie a lot of centralised power. For example these people control the big corporations and they got bernays to launch a PR campaign to encourage women to smoke so that they could sell more cigarettes but those same people are also tied to government and they got bernays to carry out a PR campaign to turn public opinion in favour of military intervetion in Guatamala

I think the nexus between big business in the US and the US government became pretty clear in the military intervetion in central america by the government on behalf of the US based United Fruits Company
The documentary was relevant, of course, but the rest... Hmm...

I mentioned pharmas in my posts as well. But, while they're an important factor, they're not a defining one. Say, some of the biggest pharmas are in continental Europe. (An interesting example, heroin was invented by what is now a German giant Bayer.) They don't lack lobbying abilities there too. But still, the Europeans are not over-medicated, even if Germans, for instance, may be also neurotic from my experience.
 
No problem, but probably best in a different thread which is more relevant to it. You're welcome to come over and leave a message.

Regarding the psychiatry, I kinda outlined my position above.

I have had a number of exchanges with the person who started this thread and i'm pretty sure he won't mind the things that I have mentioned here because i believe he can see the inter-related nature of all these things

Well yes, I read your posts here and in other topics (I have to admit, it's too long at times so I may have missed something but I get the general gist). I think most posts do point to a central factor or what can be described as "them".

I don't want to delve too much into this here, but I'm happy to do it in relevant threads. Yes, I'm being pedantic :) .
The documentary was relevant, of course, but the rest... Hmm...

Its all relevant

Here's an interesting quote by the US intellectual Noam Chomsky: Governments will use whatever technology is available to combat their primary enemy – their own population

Ok well one of the technologies they have available to them is drugs. They have tested these things thoroughly and they know what they do to people

One type is serotonin uptake inhibitors. These drugs block the flow of energy from the unconscious to the conscious mind which can lead to energies building up and not being properly processed like water building behind a dam until one day they burst forward with disasterous consequences

There appears to be a strong link between these 'anti depressants' and many tragedies...you can find plenty of related clips on youtube relating to SSRI's

Another substance which government official Donald rumsfeld helped through the government checks and balances is Aspartame also called 'nutrasweet' which destroys brain cells. You can find it in all sorts of everyday products often in sugary drinks given to kids for example. The government has made it so that another one called neotame doesn't even need to be declared on the packaging of the product....how malicious huh? But donny rumsfeld made lots of money out of that because he has shares in the company that makes aspartame!

Bill Gates has shares in Monsanto and is helping to promote various business angles Monsanto are involved in one of which is genetically modified food. This is the company that developed the cancer causing 'agent orange' that was sprayed from planes all over the crops and water courses of the vietnamese people during the vietnam war. Bill gates has invested money into Monsantos research into weather modification by...guess what...spraying stuff into the air above us

So we want to know why people seem to be getting more anxious and we want to know why psychiatry is becoming more controlling....its all there

I mentioned pharmas in my posts as well. But, while they're an important factor, they're not a defining one. Say, some of the biggest pharmas are in continental Europe. (An interesting example, heroin was invented by what is now a German giant Bayer.) They don't lack lobbying abilities there too. But still, the Europeans are not over-medicated, even if Germans, for instance, may be also neurotic from my experience.

There are other ways to medicate people. For example alcohol is a state sanctioned drug that has been made very readily available to the public. The UK government has given the supermarkets a VAT tax break on alcohol but charges pubs VAT on alcohol sales which has seen many pubs close which were previously a meeting place in communities whislt more people are now buying cheap supermarket alcohol and drinking it at home. I think you could term that 'self medicating'

There are many other brands of escapism though. I also think that the PR pressure that has been applied to the US americans has not been applied in the UK yet. Meds are advertised on the TV in the US!
 
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Ok now i do need to go to bed! Perhaps we can continue tomorrow?

All the best
 
Here's an interesting quote by the US intellectual Noam Chomsky: Governments will use whatever technology is available to combat their primary enemy – their own population

Ok well one of the technologies they have available to them is drugs. They have tested these things thoroughly and they know what they do to people

One type is serotonin uptake inhibitors. These drugs block the flow of energy from the unconscious to the conscious mind which can lead to energies building up and not being properly processed like water building behind a dam until one day they burst forward with disasterous consequences

There appears to be a strong link between these 'anti depressants' and many tragedies...you can find plenty of related clips on youtube relating to SSRI's

Another substance which government official Donald rumsfeld helped through the government checks and balances is Aspartame also called 'nutrasweet' which destroys brain cells. You can find it in all sorts of everyday products often in sugary drinks given to kids for example. The government has made it so that another one called neotame doesn't even need to be declared on the packaging of the product....how malicious huh? But donny rumsfeld made lots of money out of that because he has shares in the company that makes aspartame!

Bill Gates has shares in Monsanto and is helping to promote various business angles Monsanto are involved in one of which is genetically modified food. This is the company that developed the cancer causing 'agent orange' that was sprayed from planes all over the crops and water courses of the vietnamese people during the vietnam war. Bill gates has invested money into Monsantos research into weather modification by...guess what...spraying stuff into the air above us

So we want to know why people seem to be getting more anxious and we want to know why psychiatry is becoming more controlling....its all there
You listed several disjointed pieces of information, some related to medications, some not related to medications, some drawn from papers, others from the press releases of the proverbial news agency "Someone Said".

The government and large business are full of liars, corrupt politicians, and above all dumb, incompetent people. One thing, however, very few large organisations are able to do, and a quality you ascribe to them, is to work efficiently and in concert with different departments. All of my life experiences contradict this, and even on a very abstract level, big systems never function efficiently.

With all your slogans, you seem to be overlooking one thing. You subscribe to the Hollywood stereotypes, in which the bad guys are omnipotent. Nobody and nothing is omnipotent.
There are other ways to medicate people. For example alcohol is a state sanctioned drug that has been made very readily available to the public. The UK government has given the supermarkets a VAT tax break on alcohol but charges pubs VAT on alcohol sales which has seen many pubs close which were previously a meeting place in communities whislt more people are now buying cheap supermarket alcohol and drinking it at home. I think you could term that 'self medicating'
I see. Well, now we're on to something.

You know that the same European wines cost a lot more in Australia? (I just got back from a European vacation, and was shocked to find a bottle of Paulliac costing about 13 euro.) Do you think this deters people completely? And this is what I want to stress here. You have the top responsibility for your actions. You! Not the government.

If there is a tradition of binge drinking, you don't need cheap booze for alcoholism.
If the society is bent on productivity, you get the entire package, both the good and the bad (neurotic, "fix it fast") sides.

There are many other brands of escapism though. I also think that the PR pressure that has been applied to the US americans has not been applied in the UK yet.
Escapism, yes. Again, let me mention my USSR experiences. You may have heard (or not) that in late 1980s, along with other reforms, Gorby tried to handle one of the top Russian societal ills, alcoholism. In case you're not familiar with the topic, the magnitude of this disaster was difficult to imagine to a Westerner. British or Irish pubs would appear pinnacles of civility and rational thought in comparison to the Russian drinking culture.

They tried to uproot it, they really tried. Bottle shops closed until 2pm, no more than two bottles to one person, even cutting unique vineyards in Caucasus. "The people", however, won. They fight is still going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism_in_Russia.

So no, you can't pile everything on the government - if you really want to fix the problem. Of course, it's OK if criticising "them" is merely escapism.
Meds are advertised on the TV in the US!
This is where I happen to agree with you, this is a disgrace.
 
You listed several disjointed pieces of information, some related to medications, some not related to medications, some drawn from papers, others from the press releases of the proverbial news agency "Someone Said".

Its not an easy thing overturning someones perception of reality. The process starts quite early on in our life though. For example when we are children we are told that there is a magic man who lives at the north pole and that every year he brings presents to good boys and girls. However over time the evidence begins to stack up against this perception of reality and before long massive chinks appear in the perception for example a child catches their parents putting their presents out or someone at school tells them the truth

The lie is however an extensive one used to misslead millions of children across the world and is told to each new generation....well the lying doesn't stop with childhood; in fact it just becomes even more sophisticated! Hitler who had a top rate propaganda team called this approach 'the big lie'; he said: "The great masses will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one"

Well the big lie in our society is that things are not centrally controlled. They ARE centrally controlled. A person who understands this is going to understand the various events going on around them and knowing the agenda will even be able to make predictions that come true. The person who is still under the spell of the big lie will continue to be confounded by all the events occuring around them or they will innaccurately try to explain them away

To see through the big lie however needs an input of GOOD info. The cabal that are controlling the mainstream media and the education system however are not interested in giving people good info....they are only interested in weaving a narrative that will uphold the big lie.

So for example with the media all the information comes from a few press agencies (very centralised) and from there it is distributed through many different stations and channels to give the public an illusion of diversity. The same 'news' however is just repackaged and sold on. If you have ever read a number of different newspapers over a course of time (i did nightshifts as a student and read a lot of newspapers!) this repackaging of the same news becomes abundantly clear

Here's a funny clip that illustrates what i'm saying:

[video=youtube;Pl7sWtUu1Fc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl7sWtUu1Fc[/video]

I'll post some more in the next post
 
Who really owns and controls the media:

[video=youtube;_Tn5-uKgkWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tn5-uKgkWw[/video]
 
The government and large business are full of liars, corrupt politicians, and above all dumb, incompetent people. One thing, however, very few large organisations are able to do, and a quality you ascribe to them, is to work efficiently and in concert with different departments. All of my life experiences contradict this, and even on a very abstract level, big systems never function efficiently.

Does McDonalds operate efficiently at selling burgers?

If you worked in McDonalds you might say there are inefficiencies and difficulties between departments but as an overall organisation it does what it sets out to do very well. In fact it is also a successful real estate manager owning properties in the centres of cities and towns across the world.

The cabal sits at the top of the control pyramid and it achieves its aims very successfully which is to centralise their power more and more. However there are setbacks and the process has been going on for a very long time. Further to that awareness is growing among the worlds population and this is going to frustrate their efforts to gain total control. The rise of the 'BRIC' nations (Brazil, Russia, India & China) is also a challenge to their global hegemony....it appears the anglo-american empire is coming to an end

With all your slogans, you seem to be overlooking one thing. You subscribe to the Hollywood stereotypes, in which the bad guys are omnipotent. Nobody and nothing is omnipotent.

No i don't subscribe to that. YOU are trying to project what YOU want me to be doing onto reality instead of listening to what i am ACTUALLY saying. I don't believe the bad guys are omnipotent. In fact the world is split right now with the cabal operating a clump of countries under the neoliberal umbrella whilst many countries outside that club try to oppose or frustrate their efforts

For example the recent NSA whistleblower Snowden ran to China and then to Russia because he knew these countries would protect him from the US (which is dominated by the cabal)


I see. Well, now we're on to something.

No i was on to something before its just you don't understand it yet

You know that the same European wines cost a lot more in Australia? (I just got back from a European vacation, and was shocked to find a bottle of Paulliac costing about 13 euro.) Do you think this deters people completely? And this is what I want to stress here. You have the top responsibility for your actions. You! Not the government.

Price DOES have an effect on consumption. The Scottish nationalist government is trying to bring in minimum pricing for alcohol to help tackle the nations drink problem but the other parties are trying to block this move. This is because alcohol plays a vital role in pacifying the population who use it to let off steam every weekend.

I don't need to be told that responsibility lies with me, i am the one talking about taking power off these guys that want to control every aspect of our lives

That said people can only make sensible decisions as far as they have good information and are able to engage with reality and not projected false perceptions of reality.

This is the crucial point here that the el-ite know but many of the public don't: humans are NOT rational creatures, they are creatures capable of rational thought

For a large part humans are emotional beings. Emotions affect how people perceive things. if you can affect a person emotionally you can affect how they perceive things. This is the crucial thing to understand about the PUBLIC RELATIONS industry which was built on Freudian ideas.

If you want to sell someone something it is not always enough to tell them how good your product is....if you really want to be successful then you have to make them believe that they NEED your product and that they will not be complete with out it.....they need your product to fill a part of themselves that they feel is missing. This is why advertising tries to manipulate people on an unconscious level hence rule number one of marketing: 'sex sells'.

So you say responsibility lies with the individual....i would say yes but only as far as that individual has not been brainwashed and manipulated and is able to actaully think for themselves

Governments (using well documented 'propaganda' techniques) have historically mainpulated their populations. It is easy for them to do this becuase they also control the emdia and the education system so the people are not able to get information from outside of the bubble that the government has created around their mind

If you want to talk 'responsibility' then lets talk about the responsibility the government needs to take for lying to and manipulating the public

The internet is changing all this and people are now getting info from the alternative media which the corporations don't control. This is why we are seeing the governments trying to control the internet.....because it is circumventing the rinformational ringfence that they have built around the minds of the public

If there is a tradition of binge drinking, you don't need cheap booze for alcoholism.

The binge culture was created by the ready availability of cheap booze. In the UK this came with the arrival of vast quantities of very cheap GIN. This lead to so much social deprivation that the famous English engravor William Hogarth made his famous piece 'Gin Alley' showing the state people were being reduced to by the influx of cheap gin. You can see fights, poverty and even a drunk woman dropping her baby:

William_Hogarth_-_Gin_Lane.jpg


To illustrate how this was a coherent policy by the el-ite of Britain to help control the working class here is a quote from Queen Victoria (empress of the largest empire the world has ever seen, ruling over millions of people all over the world):

''Give my people plenty of beer, good beer and cheap beer and you will have no revolution among them''

The British also used the lands they took in India to grow opium which they then shipped to China and forced onto the Chinese people using gun boat diplomacy to sweep aside the objections of the chinese authorities. This got many chinese people addicted to opium. Britain got very rich out of this and built many fine buildings from the proceeds. You could probably arguie that the british government is the biggest smack dealer in human history.

If the society is bent on productivity, you get the entire package, both the good and the bad (neurotic, "fix it fast") sides.

Societies don't just get 'bent' on things they are manipulated into them. For example a famous culturally created aspect would be the 'protestant work ethic'. Here pressures were put on people from the pulpit which themselves were centrally administered by the control structure of the church which itself is linked intimately to the monarchs

Escapism, yes. Again, let me mention my USSR experiences. You may have heard (or not) that in late 1980s, along with other reforms, Gorby tried to handle one of the top Russian societal ills, alcoholism. In case you're not familiar with the topic, the magnitude of this disaster was difficult to imagine to a Westerner. British or Irish pubs would appear pinnacles of civility and rational thought in comparison to the Russian drinking culture.

They tried to uproot it, they really tried. Bottle shops closed until 2pm, no more than two bottles to one person, even cutting unique vineyards in Caucasus. "The people", however, won. They fight is still going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism_in_Russia.

So no, you can't pile everything on the government - if you really want to fix the problem. Of course, it's OK if criticising "them" is merely escapism.
This is where I happen to agree with you, this is a disgrace.

Why do you think there is such a drinking cutlure in Russia? The russian people have suffered a huge amount.

The upheaval their country saw at the start of the 20th century was created by the cabal of european/american bankers that I am talking about. This cabal funded Trotsky and Lenin and it trained revolutionaries that were sent with these two men to take over russia. The cabal wanted to open up the russian market so that they could exploit it.

The cabal is still doing this to countries now...they call it 'liberalising their markets'

The russians got severly burned by the cabal who were aided by Gorbachev in achieving their aims.....they have however become very streetwise now and the Russian president himself can be heard online speaking out against the aim of the cabal to create a 'unipolar world' which would be controlled by them. He believes that there should be many centres of power: a multi polar world and that is why he is stopping the cabal from taking out Assad in Syria...because once the cabal do that they will then turn on Iran and gain total control of the regions oil:

[video=youtube;jjdtS9BCOXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjdtS9BCOXg[/video]
 
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Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives.
I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that.
That's what's insane about it.

- John Lennon

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] - can you go into your ideas on the Russian Revolution?
I'm not unfamiliar with Russian history of this period so I'd be interested to hear it.
 
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Out of all the things said here I am glad that at least some people besides myself understand that it is the media that controls the information that makes it to the public. There could be an entire war fought and what we know of it, all comes from that source. Its not as if we ever stand on the front lines ourselves and see every aspect of what happens. Screw the government and what anyone thinks they are doing. Our real worry should be the fact we never get the truth from our information sources.
 
Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives.
I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that.
That's what's insane about it.

- John Lennon

@muir - can you go into your ideas on the Russian Revolution?
I'm not unfamiliar with Russian history of this period so I'd be interested to hear it.

Bravo sir! Well said

They have got us wrapped up like the proverbial kipper

Of course they shot john for saying stuff like that

This is where those that still don't get the levels of manipulation jump in and say 'but he was shot by a crazed lone gunman'

Well yeah but who's to say that gunman wasn't affected by the CIA's operation MKUltra mind control programme?

There is historical precendence for this kind of thing. Back in the times of the crusades a group called the 'assassins' perfected mind control techniques so well that they were able to get their followers to carry out suicidal assassinations. These methods are still used today with suicide bombers

It is believed by some that these methods were passed from the US ally Saudi Arabia to the CIA. Saudi Arabia is ruled by the Al Sabeh clan and the assassins were set up by an al sabeh

Also there are certain drugs that can be given to people to rob them of their free will and get them to do what you want them to do. One notab le one is scopolamine, known on the street as 'the devils breath'. Extracted from a plant in columbia this can be fed to a victim eg through spiking their drink and a short while later you can instruct them to go to the cash machine and withdraw money to give to you....they will do it. People have even burgled their own apartments under this substance. Perhaps Holmes the shooter at the aurora cinema had been given scopolamine

I'll say a bit more about the russian situation but i just need to go back and tidy up my previous post...had a few technical issues when i was trying to spell check!
 
Even so I think theres needs to be caution when assigning "blame" to whose responsible for what. Clearly people have motives. Clearly groups of people have motives and clearly power helps facilitate motives. However the idea that there is some organized corporations acting together to make and execute predetermined plans specifically designed to keep "the people" down is a going a little too far. Do corporations pursue things that make it easy for them to operate and make money? Absolutely. Is making money only secondary to controlling and keeping in place the people of the land. Highly doubtful. If so you would hear it in the media constantly. One side blaming the other for it.

It would be a secret second only to keeping aliens secret. Something we know the government isnt capable of doing. Its full of idiots who cant keep their mouths shut about anything if they think it will give them some face time on TV. I think it far more likely the strife of the people is not caused by deliberate intent as much as it is plain and simple ignorance and greed.

People, when it comes down to it, just are not that smart. Most anyway.