Are we irrational?

R

RyanS

Lucky
MBTI
INFJ
I found my personality type and I guess I'll just have to accept it. Don't get me wrong. I love being an INFJ but there are certain traits I'd rather have as well. Goes for anyone. Anyways, the N stands for iNtuition and the F stands for Feeling. Both are irrational as intuition relies on impulse rather than thinking through the problem and feeling relies on emotion rather than research and rationale. So, what do you think?
 
Intuition does not rely on impulse.

It makes connections randomly, rather than needing to go through the entire alphabet to realise you're coming to z.
 
Shai Gar said:
Intuition does not rely on impulse.

It makes connections randomly, rather than needing to go through the entire alphabet to realise you're coming to z.
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Ah, okay. That makes more sense. I'm extremely tired at 3 in the morning.
 
RyanS said:
Ah, okay. That makes more sense. I'm extremely tired at 3 in the morning.
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Understandable. It took me a while to really grasp the idea of what each function means. It isn't something you learn overnight.

Ni in particular appears the most irrational to Se, but that is because they are inverse types. However, any use of Ni would appear as irrational to most S types, and a handful of T types, because those functions process information in a much different way.
 
Ni isn't directly irrational, it just has a hard time coming to explain the rationale behind its conclusions. INFJs are particularly good at picking up little symbols and patterns in the behavior of others that most types won't recognize...but then not being able to explain why they understood something so subtle and unknowable by others.

So there is a reason Ni types come to their conclusion, it's just tough for them to explain why.


Fe is similar to the pattern recognizing of Ni, except Fe is like a database. Ni recognizes the symbols and patterns, and then checks it against the Fe database to come to conclusions. Fe is about understanding how a person feels by how their dress, expressions, etc match up against the cultural (and individual if the INFJ has familiarity with this person) norm for which emotion they may be feeling.


So in that sense INFJs are not irrational, they just have to develop the ability to explain their conclusions (Ti). They have to learn to be able to later pick apart what normally just comes so naturally to them. Underdeveloped INFJs can be a frustration for others, as they basically do the "just believe what I say, even though I have little evidence/explanation" routine.
 
Being rational is something you learn to do through practice. Some people are naturally predisposed to it, and so practice it more, but anyone who wants to can learn how to do it.
 
I can't speak for others, but usually I'm very rational. Keep in mind reasoning needs emotion in order to function properly at all.

I would say, though, that I'm impulsively rational. That is, I know something I spew forth what it is before I regain emotional composure, should I lose it. I can be 'over-emotionally' rational, too.

The impusliveness and emotional dysregulation are direct results from having a so-called ADHD brain. For all I know, it's this feature, as well as possible ASD traits that run in my family, that make me the INFJ I am. Certainly something neurological is behind such a rare personality type.
 
I'm not irrational. I'm perfectly rational.

Rational like a GOD is how rational I am.
 
Duty said:
So in that sense INFJs are not irrational, they just have to develop the ability to explain their conclusions (Ti). They have to learn to be able to later pick apart what normally just comes so naturally to them. Underdeveloped INFJs can be a frustration for others, as they basically do the "just believe what I say, even though I have little evidence/explanation" routine.
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Ti is really a very useful tool to develop for INFJs if you ask me, for this and other reasons. I keep meaning to sit down and make a thread about that, but I keep not getting to it.
 
Eniko said:
Ti is really a very useful tool to develop for INFJs if you ask me, for this and other reasons. I keep meaning to sit down and make a thread about that, but I keep not getting to it.
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Well, it's their tertiary function. For personal development we all have to develop our tertiary and inferior functions. INFJs that are underdeveloped just won't bother explaining or often even believe they need to explain themselves. They think the world should adjust to them and take their word for granted. Developing Ti counteracts this by giving the INFJ a good base from which to explain themselves.

All the types have to deal with this. My own type is obnoxious and arrogant about their intellect before they develop some Si/Fe.
 
Duty said:
Why do you say this?
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To reason without proper 'emotion' is to survey only a fragment of the available intellectual landscape before making a decision. It's inadequate data recovery.

In short, by actively suppressing/ignoring emotion, you're cheating yourself out of eons of sharpened ancestral instinct designed to logically respond to environmental cues. In turn, these response cues facilitate our advanced frontal lobes with the necessary filters to better concentrate on decoding data by blocking out needless distraction.
 
AaronNight said:
To reason without proper 'emotion' is to survey only a fragment of the available intellectual landscape before making a decision. It's inadequate data recovery.

In short, by actively suppressing/ignoring emotion, you're cheating yourself out of eons of sharpened ancestral instinct designed to logically respond to environmental cues. In turn, these response cues facilitate our advanced frontal lobes with the necessary filters to better concentrate on decoding data by blocking out needless distraction.
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Why do you say that emotions are designed to make us logically respond to environmental cues? It seems we very very often do not respond logically to our environment, and we only reduce the frequency we do that by controlling our instinct...releasing it at proper times and suppressing it at others.

Now, emotions can be an important consideration when reasoning, but the assertion was they are necessary for reasoning...I don't believe the question has been answered.

TheLastMohican said:
There is no (human) reasoning without emotion. Emotion provides a reason to follow through with reasoning and apply logic. Otherwise we would just lie down and die.
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So it doesn't have a part in the actual moment of reasoning, it just serves as motivation?
 
Duty said:
So it doesn't have a part in the actual moment of reasoning, it just serves as motivation?
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It usually does have a part in the moment as well, although that tends to corrupt the quality of the reasoning. The need for motivation is why emotion is necessary.
 
TheLastMohican said:
It usually does have a part in the moment as well, although that tends to corrupt the quality of the reasoning. The need for motivation is why emotion is necessary.
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That sounds about right.

However, are all motivations emotions? I may reason how to get food, because I feel hunger, but is hunger an emotion or just a motivation? If we have motivations without emotions, then we have a reason to reason without emotions.
 
Irrational yes. Good way to put it. And there are things I would change about myself as well. One thing remains; infj's do sense, feel, and know before so many others do.
And its hard work. It takes sooooo much time to process things.
I think I've spent nearly half my life doing just that.
As the universe works though, the irrational are sorely needed aren't they?
And I find that they tend to be the glue that binds the others together in the end.
 
Duty said:
However, are all motivations emotions? I may reason how to get food, because I feel hunger, but is hunger an emotion or just a motivation? If we have motivations without emotions, then we have a reason to reason without emotions.
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Given that the brain is just part of the nervous system, emotions and physical sensations can be categorized together. It's hard to say whether the "will to live" is a mental or physical desire: if you were hungry (starving), and had a choice between eating and injecting a drug to block the hunger signals, you would probably choose to eat, because you would recognize that there is more to your want than simply avoiding the pain.
 
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