Anyone met a Twin Flame?

[David Nelson]

Now this is probably not what you think. Most people have heard of soulmates and maybe even twin flames. Sounds great don’t it? You meet someone so suited, you hit it off easily and have a great relationship. Not even close. The video below is one of many by a guy who seems to really understand what this phenomenon is. I’m pretty sure I’m going through this now and it’s hell on earth. There’s tears, bad sleep, weird dreams, feelings of deep loneliness, mind won’t stop thinking of my twin flame, difficulty doing chores and work. Basically life in turmoil. And it could go on for months according to this guy. The way out is spiritual enlightenment.

Can I edit the title? It should be Twin Flame. See how messed up I am!

 

[David Nelson]

There has to be a film made about this. It would be the most emotional and profound one ever.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

If you go by his description... possibly?

Personally I don't think so, if only because so much of what he says doesn't connect with me - it's not so much the surface details as what's underneath them that don't connect.

More importantly, what does his video mean to you? @David Nelson
What do you feel you've gained from this perspective on life?

 

[David Nelson]

My current situation, which I started to explain in the thread ‘Falling in Love Backwards’ mirrors a lot of what he explains, except there was no relationship at the start. Just minor flirting and eye contact. I think you can only appreciate this once you have experienced it. To many it would be categorised as an obsession about a person which shows you have some mental illness. Many don’t understand it. You meet someone who is a mirror of your self, in my case it’s visual and probably at a soul level too. By using the ego, which most people exist in most of the time, there is a natural repulsion after initial attraction. One becomes the runner, the other the pursuer. The pursuer goes through hell. The only escape is death of the ego, or dark night of the soul. This leads to spiritual enlightenment and usually your twin flame is then not repelled by you, but strongly attracted. I’ve not experienced this last part yet (if it happens) but my life now is in major turmoil. I cry, struggle to sleep, obsessive thinking, struggle to do anything. Classic signs of depression. I’ve never experienced anything like it before and I’m 52. Discovering I’m an INFJ was major life event, now this. I honestly have mixed feelings. If it leads to an amazing relationship, then it will be worth it, but if not maybe spiritual growth but I can’t see that. I feel like my life is slowly falling apart. I feel like a zombie.

 

[David Nelson]

I can understand it as by seeing your own soul in another person it forces your soul to battle your ego. The awakening of your soul must be accompanied by a suppression or death of your ego. We are happier in our soul than our ego, so it should be a healthy transformation. It’s only painful because every positive change usually is.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

A few questions for you, if you don't mind <3

Why was discovering your MBTI type a major life event?

Why do you feel it likely won't lead to spiritual growth?

Was your life built on a solid foundation? or if not, the perception that it was solid?

What does ego & ego death mean to you?

 

[David Nelson]

INFJ explains so many problems relating to my work and relationships and self understanding. I had to learn it the hard way through bitter experience. Understanding that sheds so much light on the past and helps me move forward. I think any INFJ would understand this.

Because what I am feeling is centred around this person I have met, I feel that is what needs resolving. That according to the theory I need to achieve spiritual growth before any relationship is established seems a major challenge given my current position. I have sensed spiritual dimension to what I’ve been going through for the last few months. So not really sure about all this tbh.

Life on solid foundation? Yes and no. Had issues all my life wrt relationships. Probably generally more sorted now than in the past though.

Ego is the mental construct of personality I think. Soul is what we are at birth. A non thinking basis of who we are deep down. Zen and all the ancient spiritual teaching are all about connecting and exist in the soul state. Ego death is not literal as I’m sure we cannot get rid of it. It is a euphemism for being able to let it go a lot of the time.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

Thank you for humoring my questions <3
There's nothing wrong with feeling unsure about anything, especially if you're at a crossroads in your life. Oftentimes certainty seems to be something we take for granted, based on assumptions that may or may not be true.
(what is true for you?)

Why are you seeking others who've met their twin flame?
There was a time, in another life, when I helped with a community where many believed they'd found theirs. It was often tumultuous as you say, and while for many it was a matter of finding somebody who relates, it oftentimes felt like the process of finding those somebodies often left people feeling more isolated than before.
Which is to say, If somebody here mentioned they had, how would this influence you?

 

[David Nelson]

I just thought it would be interesting to hear of anyone who had experienced the same. My main reason for posting was to spread awareness of what is a very interesting phenomenon, one which I know know all too well about. When they work out it can lead to very happy and content couples. The friction is usually due to a clash of egos before they become more enlightened. I don’t know if both have to be enlightened for it to work. Lots of stories of this over the internet. You know people never getting over their twin, or reuniting after many years. It does seem to be a very real phenomenon. I think what I need to try and do is focus on Se jobs and work to minimise my Ni-Ti loop which is going crazy at the moment. I’ve done only essential tasks over the last week, no work, lots of naps and just sitting quietly and on phone, like this site.

I don’t know if it’s linked to an awakening or just an age thing but I often go down some really sad and dark thinking in relation to how small and short our lives are. It makes me really morose and the prospect of an amazing romance adds significantly to it, but coupled is the potential/probable heartbreak. I sometimes feel I could cry for days.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

mmmm okay!

I think what I need to try and do is focus on Se jobs and work to minimise my Ni-Ti loop which is going crazy at the moment.

This does sound like a good idea to me. If you like working with plants (like I do) maybe consider gardening for a few hours? it helps me stay grounded and helping things grow never feels bad. I don't know if that's specifically an Se task; my knowledge about that isn't very thorough.

Our lives are terribly small and short. At the same time they're all we'll ever know - at least, as we are now.
Does it not feel like enough?
(It doesn't have to)

 

[aeon]

I’ve never had the Twin Flame experience.

I used to decimate my ego on the regular years and years ago by means of various entheogens and entactogens. I’ll just say this: It was worthwhile to me to be egoless for a time, a number of times, and my ego is not bad in any way. It provides all manner of benefits in navigating my environments.

Ego gets a bad rap only because of the tendency of people to equate their Self with their ego. In this state of being, ego challenges are threatening, and ego-death is absolute terror and the sense of imminent destruction. Nothing could be further from the truth, but the feelings and experience are absolutely real, and valid.

One may have an ego, but the Self is not the ego.

To be fair, culture and socialization encourages people to make their ego the basis of their being, but I think that a dangerous thing to do, because of all the implications of making the individuated self the basis of one’s being.

I know it’s not for everyone, but I think regularly entering an egoless state so you may examine all of your cultural programming, and throw out that which is toxic, and of no utility, as well as understanding and becoming accustomed to a different basis point for the Self, is an absolutely worthwhile thing to endeavor upon.

Viewed through this lens, the concept of Twin Flames is well-understandable, and I am certain it is a valid phenomenon.

-------

Thread title fixed.

Cheers,
Ian

edit: a single letter ‘s’

 

[David Nelson]

Does it not feel like enough?
(It doesn't have to)

I think that’s hard to answer. I think it’s a combination of getting older, past loss and a feeling of disconnectedness. So it’s more than it not being enough, it’s a distinct lack. Plus a lack of faith that this can change. I’ve always had a feeling of not being good enough or worthy even though logically it makes little or no sense. I’m sure that’s held me back in many ways. This connection has both logical (due to age gap) and emotional blocks for me, so I’m stuck with intuition and what seems like a divine connection fighting logic and emotions. Just a right mess all round! But all I can do now is work on my spiritual side and try to minimise the obsessive thinking. I sometimes feel like my life now is like being in a bizarre romcom. It doesn’t feel real, like many things don’t to an INFJ. It’s partly why we struggle with reality, we don’t feel like we belong in it. It’s horrible. We feel like ghosts observing other real people. I might be totally deluded which is scary to think about.

 

[aeon]

I’ve always had a feeling of not being good enough or worthy even though logically it makes little or no sense.

Part of the function of ego is to protect us from things deemed harmful. This is good, but a problem occurs when one has identified the self as being the ego: the ego will gather up those parts of yourself that you do not like and that you do not accept, and hide them away to protect you. When you encounter those things outside of yourself, you will proudly say “I’m not like that!” and your ego will nod, knowing it has tricked you well done its job.

A piece of my story:

My feeling of not being ______ enough was rooted in the shame I felt about the things I was (literally and metaphorically) told to feel shame about as a child. In order to cope, my ego hid those parts of myself, and I forgot about them. That said, because I was then blind to parts of myself, two things happened:

1. I was no longer in control of those things I could not see, and those (shameful) things deemed “other.”
   
   
2. Because parts of myself were missing, there was a hole I could not fill, and I felt an emptiness, a disconnect, that I was not enough.

To be sure, I tried to forget about that shameful emptiness, and I tried to fill that hole all kinds of ways. Drugs and sex each provided a measure of distraction and oblivion, and for a time I tried to make a go of it. The problem is that I couldn’t sustain that long-term, so after 15 years (and uncountable suffering) I got clean and sober.

Perhaps ironically, it was the drug experiences I pursued that made it possible for me to see what the problem was. With my ego obliterated, I could see all the things it had hidden away, and I was at first bewildered. I thought, are those things really a part of me? It didn’t seem like it, because those things seemed both other, and bad, in my baseline frame of mind. But I took note of those things. Also, without my ego to protect me, I could “see” the scripts, or programs I was running, and I could understand why I was running them, and who put them there—the deepest and most foundational were put there by my parents and myself, and some were personal, some were cultural. Over time, I threw some out, changed some, and added others.

But what was the other thing I learned? It was that who I truly was—my Self—was something other, deeper, and beyond what I thought it was. That thing was not my ego.

The fix to being not _______ enough? To feel whole? To end emptiness?

It’s simple to say, but not easy to do. In fact, I had to try everything else first, and fail, until this was all that was left. This was my place of surrender, my place of relinquishing any measure of trying to control things.

All that was required was to accept myself, unconditionally. Accept those parts of myself I was ashamed of. The parts I disliked. I had to accept all of them so I could integrate those missing parts and be whole. Be who I truly was. Not who I wanted to be.

Once I did that, two things happened, one right away, one two weeks later:

1. I loved myself for the first time ever. I loved the parts I had previously hidden away, and I was not ashamed of them—in fact, they were beautiful. I laughed about that, because I wanted to share what I had previously feared would be discovered. I loved myself, all of myself. I was enough. I was whole. And I was okay...lovable in fact. And because I loved myself, well and true...
   
   
2. ...two weeks later I met the love of my life, and she loves me, all of me. Even those parts I fought against for so long. The parts of me I was most ashamed of are the ones she sees as beautiful, and she tells me those are the parts that make me uniquely me.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

I’ve always had a feeling of not being good enough or worthy even though logically it makes little or no sense.

If you could say, what do you feel you're not good or worthy enough for?
And, what are the consequences if you aren't?

 

[David Nelson]

If you could say, what do you feel you're not good or worthy enough for?
And, what are the consequences if you aren't?

Probably of being valued or loved. It probably comes down to parenting, my father was not encouraging and mostly detached (although not abusive). I was very shy and insecure as a teenager. The consequences are loneliness and feeling undervalued.

 

[David Nelson]

Part of the function of ego is to protect us from things deemed harmful. This is good, but a problem occurs when one has identified the self as being the ego: the ego will gather up those parts of yourself that you do not like and that you do not accept, and hide them away to protect you. When you encounter those things outside of yourself, you will proudly say “I’m not like that!” and your ego will nod, knowing it has tricked you well done its job.

A piece of my story:

My feeling of not being ______ enough was rooted in the shame I felt about the things I was (literally and metaphorically) told to feel shame about as a child. In order to cope, my ego hid those parts of myself, and I forgot about them. That said, because I was then blind to parts of myself, two things happened:

1. I was no longer in control of those things I could not see, and those (shameful) things deemed “other.”
   
   
2. Because parts of myself were missing, there was a hole I could not fill, and I felt an emptiness, a disconnect, that I was not enough.

To be sure, I tried to forget about that shameful emptiness, and I tried to fill that hole all kinds of ways. Drugs and sex each provided a measure of distraction and oblivion, and for a time I tried to make a go of it. The problem is that I couldn’t sustain that long-term, so after 15 years (and uncountable suffering) I got clean and sober.

Perhaps ironically, it was the drug experiences I pursued that made it possible for me to see what the problem was. With my ego obliterated, I could see all the things it had hidden away, and I was at first bewildered. I thought, are those things really a part of me? It didn’t seem like it, because those things seemed both other, and bad, in my baseline frame of mind. But I took note of those things. Also, without my ego to protect me, I could “see” the scripts, or programs I was running, and I could understand why I was running them, and who put them there—the deepest and most foundational were put there by my parents and myself, and some were personal, some were cultural. Over time, I threw some out, changed some, and added others.

But what was the other thing I learned? It was that who I truly was—my Self—was something other, deeper, and beyond what I thought it was. That thing was not my ego.

The fix to being not _______ enough? To feel whole? To end emptiness?

It’s simple to say, but not easy to do. In fact, I had to try everything else first, and fail, until this was all that was left. This was my place of surrender, my place of relinquishing any measure of trying to control things.

All that was required was to accept myself, unconditionally. Accept those parts of myself I was ashamed of. The parts I disliked. I had to accept all of them so I could integrate those missing parts and be whole. Be who I truly was. Not who I wanted to be.

Once I did that, two things happened, one right away, one two weeks later:

1. I loved myself for the first time ever. I loved the parts I had previously hidden away, and I was not ashamed of them—in fact, they were beautiful. I laughed about that, because I wanted to share what I had previously feared would be discovered. I loved myself, all of myself. I was enough. I was whole. And I was okay...lovable in fact. And because I loved myself, well and true...
   
   
2. ...two weeks later I met the love of my life, and she loves me, all of me. Even those parts I fought against for so long. The parts of me I was most ashamed of are the ones she sees as beautiful, and she tells me those are the parts that make me uniquely me.

Cheers,
Ian

Wow, thanks Ian. As usual, a detailed and deep response. What I am thinking now in relation to this connection, and what I know is true, is that I have been drawn to this girl, she’s about 22, not for her youth and beauty, but for who she is on a soul level. Whether a relationship more than friendship is possible, what I think I really need for my sanity is to get to know her better. She has been so closed off and unwilling to communicate much with me. This is what I find really frustrating. If I got to know her more, maybe that could shed light and even get me to see her more as ‘just’ another person, although if she is a twin flame, then I’ll likely just be more drawn to her. Her young age means she lacks my own maturity of mind. She should know she has nothing to fear with me. I wouldn’t hurt her in any way. Maybe her resistance is self protection because she can sense the attraction but doesn’t want a relationship with someone much older and knows she may not be able to hold back if we got to know each other better. I have a feeling that women in general are much more able to be practical when it comes to relationships than men. As they give birth, they have to be. Men are more swayed by their feelings I think. Women live more in their feelings, so have better control of them. If we are twin flames, she is probably struggling to understand her reactions to me. I doubt she know she anything about the phenomenon. I feel there is so much I can teach her. My maturity of mind and depth of intellect could be a great help to her, but seemingly counterintuitively it is me that is desperate to get to know her. Why? Probably due to a soul connection. It’s as if she has the things I desperately seek. Have you ever had that feeling of escaping your own life and immersing yourself in that of another person? How that seems like a great thing? Like by doing that you might be happy? I think this might stem from or link with the INFJ alienation. To go from known relative misery to unknown joy and contentment. This girl could be my salvation, or is that wrong? Is it Fe seeking to make up for lack of Fi?

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

whoa whoa whoa slow down a minute

This girl could be my salvation, or is that wrong?

Yepper pepper

But I can't speak for her. In my experience anybody seeking me as their salvation, that's code for me to get the dynamite and - as gently as possible - demolish my bridges if they don't back off.
It's flattering in an entirely uncomfortable way and not a nice pedestal to be on.

Slow down, Take a breath. What are your surroundings? What are your toes feeling?
and please pardon me for being not very good at this I don't have the skill like I once did.

 

[David Nelson]

I like the idea of 2 people being each other’s salvation. Is that wrong? Sure, we can exist separately, but we can live together amazingly, or at least help each other to be happy. Does the pedestal thing not exist in every strong relationship? I know all the crap about not putting someone on one, but we do in our minds don’t we?! Otherwise, what’s the point? If the other person is not seen as ‘special’ to us, why do we want them?

 

[aeon]

Wow, thanks Ian. As usual, a detailed and deep response.

I took the time because I feel for your situation...and because you are worth taking time for.

If I got to know her more, maybe that could shed light and even get me to see her more as ‘just’ another person

Perhaps you could replace your idea of her with some knowing of who she actually is, but “just” another person? Doubtful, at least based on my experiences in life in getting to know people. There is no “just.” I’m not saying that to be glib, or play a word game. I’m saying that because I believe each and every is a manifestation of spirit or a projection of consciousness, experiencing what it is to have an individuated body and mind, as rooted in physicality.

Her young age means she lacks my own maturity of mind.

You know what they say about assumption. I would also suggest that people develop in different ways, at different rates, at different times. I used to think I had maturity of mind. In truth, when I was 40 there were 20-year-olds who were more mature of mind. Why? Because although my mind was experienced, and knew this and that, it was based on a lie, and as a result had only grown in a disfigured way. In terms of healthy growth, it was but as a shoot breaking through the last of the winter snow.

In the ego-world, and the world of things, I was grown, perhaps in some ways even a master. But in the dimension of the Self, and the world of Love nested within itself ad infinitum, I was but a child. My growth in this way had been stunted. I was ignorant. I knew so many things, but I didn’t know anything of real worth.

She should know she has nothing to fear with me.

Please do keep your shoulds and supposed-tos for yourself. No one I have ever known has reacted well to them past childhood.

In western nearly every culture, women have good reason to be afraid, especially of men. This is because of how men are socialized in an environment of misogyny, and how both men and women are saddled with all manner of gender roles. Of course no man is to blame for that, but the problem is most do not grow beyond that, or do any self-work, so even a “nice” man can be filled with things that any reasonable woman would want to avoid.

Consider too that you and I have the “luxury” of not having to think about it. Sadly, women do not have that luxury.

I have a feeling that women in general are much more able to be practical when it comes to relationships than men. As they give birth, they have to be.

I’m not going to say what women have to do, because I don’t have the right. But yes, in general, women bear a much different set of potential consequences and eventual responsibilities by entering into a sexual relationship with a man.

That said, my sense is any statement that treats women, or men, as a monolithic group is wrong. Not in the sense it is a lie, but it doesn’t take into account the wide range of each group. I’ve known some practical guys, and I’ve known a few women who, by their own admission, didn’t have a practical bone in their body.

Men are more swayed by their feelings I think. Women live more in their feelings, so have better control of them.

Same comment as above, but I’ll add that no one can control their feelings. People can control their actions in regard to feelings, however. My sense is attempting to control one’s feelings is a form of psychological self-injurious behavior that is at odds with one’s well-being.

I feel there is so much I can teach her.

Perhaps, but I would ask you to consider that in a healthy and equitable relationship of mutually-engaged partners, each would be both teacher and student for one another. That kind of reciprocity is an absolute must when it comes to a healthy sexual relationship where both partners have an opportunity to meet their needs, experience a deep intimacy, feel happy and safe, and witness the fusion of their own love and desire into something far greater than the sum of its parts.

Have you ever had that feeling of escaping your own life and immersing yourself in that of another person? How that seems like a great thing? Like by doing that you might be happy?

No, because I was always deeply aware that no matter where I went, there I would be. Nothing outside myself would fix me. I was (and am) responsible for my own happiness, and I was (and am) responsible for my own growth. But also, I never wanted to escape my own life. I wanted to be well, and then experience a shared life with someone who was well.

This girl could be my salvation, or is that wrong?

Who am I to say?

That said, based on my own experience, and the experience of every person who has ever shared their story with me, one has to be one’s own salvation. No one else can, or will, do it for you. One is responsible for one’s damnation—the disconnect from Love—so in turn, one is responsible for one’s salvation—to live in the grace that is Love.

To this end, one is locked in a cage, whilst holding the key to freedom in hand. One has two choices going forward:

1. the choice to do the difficult self-work such that they can put the key in the lock, and...
   
2. the choice to be happy.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Sandie33]

There was another thread here about Twin Flame journey...

Often it is rather a Soul Call and not a twin flame union. It is important to discern between the two as each literally feels like we are falling in love and falling apart because of the bizarre twists and turns on a being level.

For your consideration ...
https://psychicblaze.com/soul-call/

https://blog.spiritualify.com/what-is-a-soul-call-and-how-can-you-answer-it/

regarding the mirroring of Twin Flame ...
https://wikiexpert.com/articles/2722/1350/twin-flame-mirror-soul-meeting

*It helped me by keeping in mind the aspects of mirroring, projection, and transference when grasping the spiritual context of Twin Flame reasoning. Best wishes to you David.