A question on Gay Rights

[Shai Gar]

I'm now almost a recluse. So I'm no longer encountering it either.


These days the most behaviour related to homosexuality that I see is on a christian forum.

 

[Soulful]

Why are you almost a recluse these days?

Lol.. christian forum..

 

[NaeturVindur]

These days the most behaviour related to homosexuality that I see is on a christian forum.

YOU, on a christian forum? It just seems too hard to believe (but then again, you must have so much fun for you, and be infuriating for them!)

 

[NaeturVindur]

Heh, this is an interesting argument.
I'm going to kind of break it down from what I understand:

Religion: God hates gays
The Bible, as translated from the original Hebrew, actually doesn't really mention homosexuality specifically. That's more of a loose interpretation: it could also mean "temple prostitutes" or other similar things, which would actually make more sense, since at the time where Christian and Pagan beliefs were merging (when the Bible was 'written'), temple prostitutes were fairly normal for Pagan religions.
Also, anyone who counts homosexuality as a unholy sin of the flesh also has to remember that sex before marriage and sex after divorce were both stressed even more as sins of the flesh. Sins are not "worse" because less people act upon them. We are all sinners in that regard; get off the high horse and look on your own actions, I say.

Gays might hit on me
A lot of people are afraid that a gay person might try to feel them up or something, which I think is pretty major BS. Just because a person is gay doesn't mean they will try to grope anyone of the same sex; they like certain people just like straight people have preferences. That's just plain ignorance, no excuse.

They're going to try to get married (screw up existing, traditional systems)
Well, that's all fine and dandy that you feel that way, but there are legal ways to get the same rights that don't involve Christian marriages. The thing about most politics anymore is that people have the RIGHT to equality; that doesn't mean just when we feel like it's "correct" or "normal." Gays have the right to equal political standing, even when it comes to legal partnerships, and if you don't want to give them the religious side...well, that's up to the religion. However, legally, we are not permitted to be so picky.

This is a very good summary, so I’m using it to poke and prod a little further.

Religion: God hates gays
The Bible, as translated from the original Hebrew, actually doesn't really mention homosexuality specifically. That's more of a loose interpretation: it could also mean "temple prostitutes" or other similar things, which would actually make more sense, since at the time where Christian and Pagan beliefs were merging (when the Bible was 'written'), temple prostitutes were fairly normal for Pagan religions.

(one comment on this, the temple prostitutes would makes sense in view of the new testament, but most people use the old testament, where it specifically say “If there is any among you who will lie with a man as one lies with a women, he is to be turned out from your village and stoned to death, he has forfeit his life, for he is an abomination to the lord thy god” or something like that (Deuteronomy)) Besides that, I feel that we can’t dig any further in this direction because the only reason here is “The bible says so,” so let’s move on.

Gays might hit on me
A lot of people are afraid that a gay person might try to feel them up or something, which I think is pretty major BS. Just because a person is gay doesn't mean they will try to grope anyone of the same sex; they like certain people just like straight people have preferences. That's just plain ignorance, no excuse.

Why is it a problem if a problem for a homosexual to hit on a heterosexual (assuming the homosexual isn’t just being annoying, knowing that the heterosexual is hetero, but is actually interested)?

They're going to try to get married (screw up existing, traditional systems)
Well, that's all fine and dandy that you feel that way, but there are legal ways to get the same rights that don't involve Christian marriages. The thing about most politics anymore is that people have the RIGHT to equality; that doesn't mean just when we feel like it's "correct" or "normal." Gays have the right to equal political standing, even when it comes to legal partnerships, and if you don't want to give them the religious side...well, that's up to the religion. However, legally, we are not permitted to be so picky.

Why is it such a problem to change/ignore some traditions? They’re changing all the time anyway. Even in the Church traditions are changing. The mass used to read in Latin, remember?

 

[Soulful]

I agree with you Vindur. Here's my take on it:

Gays might hit on me
A lot of people are afraid that a gay person might try to feel them up or something, which I think is pretty major BS. Just because a person is gay doesn't mean they will try to grope anyone of the same sex; they like certain people just like straight people have preferences. That's just plain ignorance, no excuse.

As far as a homosexual hitting on a heterosexual, I don't see anything wrong with that. That's like a heterosexual hitting on a homosexual person or another heterosexual person who's just not interested. I mean, how's one to know until you find out that someone is not interested for reasons A, b, c,...? Of course, that doesn't include anything distasteful or unwanted. If someone says they're not interested - no means no. That's applicable across all sexual orientations. No means no regardless of sexual preference. If the assumption is that homosexual persons will not respect that - then that is an issue of ignorance. Homosexuality does not equal harrassment or assault!

They're going to try to get married (screw up existing, traditional systems)

Yeah, traditional systems DO change all the time. I'm a bit biased here because I'm not ultra-traditional. It's not as though gay people getting married or being gay will erase the concept of a nuclear family, heterosexual marriage, etc. As for women and men existing to reproduce - frankly, there are enough children in the world who need loving homes, and we're already over-populated. In the future, if that wouldn't be the case, it surely couldn't be blamed on gay marriage/gay couples. I don't know - I just don't get this one. Why is adding a little flavour, a little spice, to the possibility of a situation bad? It's not as though marriage itself is changing. People who want to get married traditionally can still have that.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I agree with both of you Personally, I have no issue with anyone hitting on me as long as their respectful, and I'm definitely not traditionalist.

However, the majority of the world (or, should I say, the US) is more traditionalist than not. It's rather irrational, but people dislike what they don't understand; it's easier to make excuses or be homophobic than it is to learn and accept something.

 

[Soulful]

It's rather irrational, but people dislike what they don't understand; it's easier to make excuses or be homophobic than it is to learn and accept something.

I agree that people react in those ways, but I don't really understand it.

I think - at least in North America - that with the generation growing up these days, the kids will hopefully grow up to be much more accepting of homosexuality. I wonder how religious beliefs will be preserved - some kids will face a major culture clash if society becomes very comfortable with homosexuality.