"A man who is always honest is a child" ~ is this true or is this not true? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

"A man who is always honest is a child" ~ is this true or is this not true?

SealHammer said:
Presumably the standard answer would be that, depending on context, it can be considered uncouth or even disrespectful to express one's honest thoughts.

More likely, however, it's that we see good liars not only as outwardly intelligent, but also daring, two qualities which are invariably magnetizing to most people.
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Why is it disrespectful to be honest?

Young people look at me and might think "She looks old.". If I ask them how do I look - should they lie to me?
If I am of the type of woman who gets her feelings hurt if people remind her she is looking older - then is it the fault of the other for her hurt feelings - or her own responsibility for not facing reality? I mean I certainly don't condone people going up to me and saying "man.... lady you look old". But if that's what the universe wants me to hear then so be it.
2 things. First of all - it's the truth - as they see it. Right? Compared to a younger person I look aged. Secondly - I can either choose to allow those words or opinion of theirs to affect me negatively - or not. Right?

Frankly I think we in our culture spend a colossal waste of time pretending.

Seeing intelligence and daring in individuals is one thing. The usage of those qualities is another.
If a young man climbs a tree on the edge of a river gorge - ties a long plaited vine to a branch leaning out - then swings to the other side of the gorge to create a way for others to cross - is in my book - daring and intelligent. I would certainly applaud him.

The same young man who uses those abilities to sell me a car with falsified information stating the transmission has just been repaired and it breaks on me 2 weeks later - is not. Yet his friends salute him in the bar on Friday night when he wins "Salesman of the Week".
Why do we do that?

Are there not any opportunities to be daring and intelligent in cooperative - for the benefit of all- kind of ways ?
 
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[MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION]

Some people are honestly disrespectful. Others are honestly dangerous. Others still are honestly intolerant and spiteful.

In a perfect world we could have 100% honesty, but disagreements out of suffering and ignorance are not entirely benign.

Without developed insight and inner being, the question of when one should be honest or not becomes an exercise in getting along in a world where people don't get along.
 
I warn girls not to ask me if they look fat in an outfit if they don't want an honest answer.

I'd also like to point out that honesty doesn't necessarily mean 'brutal honesty' or verbal abuse. One can still convey utter truth without being an asshole about it. Honesty does not have to be tactless.
 
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I feel being honest with myself gives me the integrity needed to be honest with others. However, the art of tactful reserve is sometimes needed.
 
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i don't understand the quote in the OP. how does being honest equate to childishness?
i am an honest person. i don't keep secrets, but i also don't divulge everything about me or my life to anyone. it's not a matter of honesty to do that anyway - to me it's a matter of knowing social boundries.
i tell the truth regardless of how uncomfortable it may be. mind you, there is tact and diplomacy involved in that. you don't just blurt out whatever lol
 
We all need to be honest with ourself and others also, despite the fact that what other people do, have in their dealings and attitude. As we are everyone have is own life and way of life, but we known by what we are. So, no need to compete with others in these sort of things.


 
just going to point out that kids lie all the time
 
I'm getting the feeling that this quote think of always being honest as being naive? And being naive is seen as rather childish.
I think a big part of being "adult" is to be able to take responsibility and view things critically, which is not something that corresponds well with being naive.

Another interpretation - is the word "child" in this sentence really a negative aspect? It could seem like it at first, but I often think that many people as we grow up lose a big part of our natural creativeness and openess we have as a child, as we're "forced" to make our minds correspond with the "adult" culture and systems. The quote could be saying "a man who is always honest (to himself and to others) has managed to hold on to his natural openness". By not filtering his mind with what we've learned to weed out in order to fit in he have managed to maintain the natural state of his mind.
 
Ever heard of Honest Abe? Quite a man I think. US President, famous more than a hundred years later and he abolished slavery in the entire country. Lying for one's own benefit surely isn't a sign of immaturity.
 
Neuro said:
I'm getting the feeling that this quote think of always being honest as being naive? And being naive is seen as rather childish.
I think a big part of being "adult" is to be able to take responsibility and view things critically, which is not something that corresponds well with being naive.

Another interpretation - is the word "child" in this sentence really a negative aspect? It could seem like it at first, but I often think that many people as we grow up lose a big part of our natural creativeness and openess we have as a child, as we're "forced" to make our minds correspond with the "adult" culture and systems. The quote could be saying "a man who is always honest (to himself and to others) has managed to hold on to his natural openness". By not filtering his mind with what we've learned to weed out in order to fit in he have managed to maintain the natural state of his mind.
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Some times I read it as a man who is honest with himself will recognize that he is a child.

Keep in mind that this is Socrates who also said "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil."

"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

"I was really too honest a man to be a politician and live."
 
A man who is always honest is a child - not necessarily. If a man had the experience to realize the consequences of total honesty, and still chose to be, then it shows he values honesty more. A man who is ignorant of the consequences, however, is little more than a child. He's not really making a choice, he's acting out of ignorance. The motivation is entirely different. Children (and adults) lie to get out of trouble, and it can be very effective. Children who are honest, however, aren't honest because they VALUE honesty, they aren't making a conscious choice, they do it because it's the path of least resistance, or they haven't learned how to manipulate people yet (hence are naive). The drive to gain pleasure/avoid pain is still there but underdeveloped. In adults, those who are always honest have rejected the need to seek pleasure/avoid pain and have consciously chosen a different path. So totally honesty can be a mature choice.
 
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I would say that if you are totally honest with yourself about your likes and dislikes etc and knew yourself inside out which would require great honesty both with yourself and the people that you felt had had an impact on your life then, eventually, you may begin to live life more automatically. That's how a child lives but an adult who has become a child again would be child-like, in that they don't need to think and analyse, but act according to their own personal driving force...but with experience there is no reason for them to be childish.
 
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The person who said this is Fe dom. Asserting that Ti represents one who values truth.
For those who aren't familiar with MBTI, those who are Fe dom, are Ti inferior, and vice versa.
My claim is that there is no wonder for someone with the least-developed part of their brain to believe that part of them is childish, for that very part represents the child in them.

With that said, let's dig a bit deeper as to speculate the intention of the quote.
With each person, there are those (s)he considers internal, and those external. People who are closer (internal) share some degree of consequence. So when one suffers, those close will also. In this situation, honesty is paramount to a functioning internal system. Those who are external have no stake in their success nor failure, so their honesty can easily be used against them. The latter must be the scenario this quote covers.
The fact the word "child" is used suggests there is experience to be gained of those who are too honest. They haven't enough time to realize the struggles with their current behavior to correct it.

It's not a good idea to always do any one thing. So the quote renders itself pointless other than the quoter's personal goal to correct the behavior of those who are too honest.
 
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