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A dangerous Christian

Logically, I think humans may be meant to believe in God. Through natural selection, humans have become predisposed to making the Type I error inherent in a belief of God. It may have become an essential element to our long term emotional health.

The product of existential reasoning is that we make our own purpose and the product of theistic reasoning is that a supernatural deity has a purpose for us. The underlying theme is the same. Humans need purpose or we lose hope in our future. We need to feel that what we do has some significance and that our actions carry some weight. We are all going to die, and life would be awfully absurd if we couldn't find or create some purpose. Life is so short and so harsh that I can no longer judge people for having faith if it makes their life just a bit better and more meaningful. Humans are emotional creatures, not logical creatures. We create symbols to represent highly abstract ideals. A flag represents freedom, a hug represents affection, and God represents unconditional love. We don't concern ourselves with whether or not freedom or affection actually exist, because they have emotional meaning to us whether or not they actually do.

To put it simply, if it is fun to believe, then why not?
 
Satya said:
Logically, I think humans may be meant to believe in God. Through natural selection, humans have become predisposed to making the Type I error inherent in a belief of God. It may have become an essential element to our long term emotional health.

The product of existential reasoning is that we make our own purpose and the product of theistic reasoning is that a supernatural deity has a purpose for us. The underlying theme is the same. Humans need purpose or we lose hope in our future. We need to feel that what we do has some significance and that our actions carry some weight. We are all going to die, and life would be awfully absurd if we couldn't find or create some purpose. Life is so short and so harsh that I can no longer judge people for having faith if it makes their life just a bit better and more meaningful. Humans are emotional creatures, not logical creatures. We create symbols to represent highly abstract ideals. A flag represents freedom, a hug represents affection, and God represents unconditional love. We don't concern ourselves with whether or not freedom or affection actually exist, because they have emotional meaning to us whether or not they actually do.

To put it simply, if it is fun to believe, then why not?
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You're implying it's not fun to not to believe in god?
 
I like the phrase 'living Christian', but I would like to view it as 'person whom isn't using their religion/philosophy/group/goverment/race/herritage/uninformed viewpoint as an excuse to be a dick'. The bible (in my opinion) was a good guide when it was conceived and even now tells of living life and been good to each other. The thing with the judgemental 'religious individuals' is that they go against there own teachings and philosophy. They will use anything to convince themselves and others that there human traits are the devil or justified due to some privileged state they seem to be in.
Like many on here I have come into contact with the negative example, where it’s my opinion in order to preach to me you should know something I don't, which is rare with your average rude bastard (I should also mention I have studied Christian history for about 9 years, which helps); The worst thing I find with it is that most of the preachy sort don't even know the basics of their religion.
This guy seems like a nice person whom the religion is merely an internal system instead of a weapon to attack with, but it's dogma still dictates, I try to live similar minus the God.
In regards to what to do about said gentlemen, his notion of even suggesting the abandonment of reason in replacement of emotional driven thought ridiculous and way too much to ask. Would you ask someone to abandon their religion? I would say take the positive from the situation and leave it at that.
 
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Very interesting, and nice. Seems you think he is dangerous because he embodies ideals that you want to believe in, but can't.

I would probably react in a rather similar way. However, I would never consider intellectual suicide an option. Belief in God may sometimes manifest itself in mystical, elegant, esoteric, and otherwise deeply fascinating ways, but that doesn't mean reason should be transcended, necessarily. What I mean is, those qualities can be obtained apart from God.

You seem to be very intrigued in his personal belief structure and views on the Bible/religion. If you want to believe something, believe it. If you don't want to, don't. His believing in God is not necessarily a correlation with his other beliefs. In other words, they can be understood independently.

If you don't feel like a belief in God is right for you, I would say, don't believe in a God. But if you feel this person's particular morals and ideals are right for you, then believe that. Nothing at all wrong with change.

Best of luck to you in your endeavours.
 
slant said:
You're implying it's not fun to not to believe in god?
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Everyone should be entitled to believe whatever makes their life the most enjoyable and worth living. If not believing in God would do that for you, then you shouldn't believe in God.

nil said:
Very interesting, and nice. Seems you think he is dangerous because he embodies ideals that you want to believe in, but can't.

I would probably react in a rather similar way. However, I would never consider intellectual suicide an option. Belief in God may sometimes manifest itself in mystical, elegant, esoteric, and otherwise deeply fascinating ways, but that doesn't mean reason should be transcended, necessarily. What I mean is, those qualities can be obtained apart from God.

You seem to be very intrigued in his personal belief structure and views on the Bible/religion. If you want to believe something, believe it. If you don't want to, don't. His believing in God is not necessarily a correlation with his other beliefs. In other words, they can be understood independently.

If you don't feel like a belief in God is right for you, I would say, don't believe in a God. But if you feel this person's particular morals and ideals are right for you, then believe that. Nothing at all wrong with change.

Best of luck to you in your endeavours.
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You hit the nail on the head. I have tried to live to those ideals, but I lose faith because it begins to seem pointless. Having a belief in God focuses him, allows him to find greater inner strength, and gives him greater satisfaction.

For me, it is like being diagnosed with cancer, and given a pill but being told it is a placebo. Then I watch as other people take the placebo believing it is a miracle drug and they are cured of their cancer because of their absolute faith in it. I'm left holding the placebo wondering if it is too late for me to believe.
 
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Hello Satya:

I am happy to hear you have met a human being who has made such a degree of impression on you through their expression of self, regardless of their belief or what comes out of your knowing them. That kind of experience is not soon forgotten, if ever.

In any case, here is a link for you: Pascal
 
aeon said:
Hello Satya:

I am happy to hear you have met a human being who has made such a degree of impression on you through their expression of self, regardless of their belief or what comes out of your knowing them. That kind of experience is not soon forgotten, if ever.

In any case, here is a link for you: Pascal
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I'm glad you got to meet a true Christian, not the usual fanatical type.
 
Have you looked into Christian Existentialism? It might marry some of your concerns with reason vs. faith vs. organized religion vs. way of life.

Or it might give you some new things to think about.

Best of luck.
 
Satya said:
I'm not so sure. He has challenged some of my long held political beliefs. He values life differently than I do. His views of sex are also very different than my own, but I think I like his better. There is a harmony to his beliefs that I haven't seen in many other belief systems.
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Please list several.
 
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Satya, I love the phrase "dangerous Christian" that you've coined and especially love why. What a poignant and powerful description of an encounter with God through another person. That's how he designed us to relate to him, I believe. To seek him personally but also to see the God seed in each of us and be awakened even as we awaken others to the song he has put in our hearts.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions going into this. I can very much relate to your inner struggle as well as the strong attraction you feel developing for what it is that motivates this person. You might enjoy my testimony (the story of how I went from being an atheist to believing in God) which I just posted on my blog.
 
What you just describe sound exactly "Contrary to Belief" videos. I don't think its apllied to any religions but it sounds very similiar to this persons way of thought. Anyway I posted in another thread a video, if anyone cares i'll give you a link.
 
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Anyway, I have also met people that have impressed upon me that they are faithful Christians and generally lack the overweeing "I am right" and "you are wrong" attitude. I respect anybody that can come to a balance in their life that respects other people's boundaries as part of their faith. What I dislike about organized religion is the idea that their task to convert all and their ways are best for all. A side note, wasn't Jesus Jewish?
 
Sonyab said:
Anyway, I have also met people that have impressed upon me that they are faithful Christians and generally lack the overweeing "I am right" and "you are wrong" attitude. I respect anybody that can come to a balance in their life that respects other people's boundaries as part of their faith. What I dislike about organized religion is the idea that their task to convert all and their ways are best for all. A side note, wasn't Jesus Jewish?
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He was but he also said this in Matthew 28, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." To me those two facts aren't contradictory.

Sometimes I think I'm naive because of the fact that I wasn't raised in the church... I would never think that it's ok to be anti-semitic or arrogantly bash other people's beliefs. I know this is the unfortunate hallmark of many Christians but we're not all like that and what's more important is that God isn't like that. He does draw a line in the sand in saying, "Here I am. Choose me and live" but takes us as we are. The refining process takes a lifetime.
 
Of course Jesus (Yehoshua) was Jewish, but Judaism today is not the same as Judaism then. There were several sects then which disagreed with each other greatly. Best known of course are the Pharisees and Sadducees. The Pharisees believed in tradition, Oral Law, a complex hierarchy of angels and demons, life after death (although different subgroups viewed the resurrection in very different ways. The most common seems to be that when the Messiah comes all Jews will return for a normal physical life, while others believed in the Greek idea of reincarnation), and that it was important for every Jew to keep the law. The Saducees accepted only the scriptures, rejected all tradition, focused on the ritual requirements for the priesthood, didn't always think the law applied to the people as a whole, denied the existence of any sort of afterlife, rejected superstitions about angels, ect. Other groups accepted the books of Moses, but rejected the prophets. The Samaritans were a group that accepted only a slightly different version of the 5 books, with a version of the 10 commandments that declared that the only place to worship was Mount Gerizim, so they considered David and Solomon to have serious sinned when they moved the tabernacle to and built the temple in Jerusalem. Some groups of ews were extremely traditional, while others where so Hellenized that their theology was basically Greek Philosophy. There were a lot of groups in between, and many of the common people did not belong to any sect but borrowed ideas from many. Many men arose around the time of Christ who claimed to be the Messiah and formed sects fo their own.

Early Christians were one Jewish sect among many. It did not branch off of modern Judaism, but is a different branch from a common source. Christ's teachings were generally much closer to those of the Pharisees than the other sects, although he never relied upon oral tradition in his arguments. Orthodox Jews are essentially Pharisees. The Sacudees pretty much died out, although some Karaite groups claim to be their descendants. (These have come to accept the doctrine of the resurrection, although they still remain a sola scriptura form of Judaism rather than relying on tradition.) There are also still a few Samaritans around. The Essenes are all gone, although some think that the names is a Greek form which is translated directly from Hebrew would be rendered Hasidim. They may have shared some ideas with modern Chassidic Jews, but there is no continuity between them.
 
Satya - It is refreshing to hear that there are other Christians out there who can touch people's hearts the way yours was. I wish there were more like that. Best of luck to you in your explorations :)
 
love one another, for all will know you are my disciples if you have love for one another.

Also, welcome back.
 
I cannot say whether if it's a good thing or not -- but I would certainly love to see someone like that.

Well, technically there is, but... uuuh anyway!

Just try. Were you ever strayed from the first place?
Consider this not from a religious side, but from a lifestyle / intellectual / philosophical side. This is kind of like wandering around (as someone with a liberal and adventurous mind like you tend to have) in a search for a healthy, maturer you. So what if you have to take a contradicting path? So what if one has to regain (or release) their belief of God? So what if you have to challenge your old belief? Meh -- that's the point of it, in fact; IMO.

In a philosophical term, isn't the point of such journey how it's manifested in our everyday actions?

I believe even if you went completely devoted to Christianity or any religion now, it won't destroys all of your philosophies; just picking parts that you -know- you have problems with and changes it to a better one. And even if afterward you decided to back again; it would be just another development in yourself.

Take the leap. Play around. Understand.

I wish you best of luck xD
 
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