Your body language shapes who you are

[LucyJr]

[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

Why do I? Because this is more important than you.

Of course. But then you should be able to see things objectively, but apparently either you don't want to, either you can't.

 

[sprinkles]

Oops! My apologies! I totally misread and misunderstood what you were saying

It's fine, I probably wasn't very clear.

To go further though, take for example cortisol which you mentioned. Many factors contribute to cortisol production itself. Cholesterol is required for cortisol production in a really complicated cycle of synthesizing many different molecules. Also caffeine, alcohol, and sleep deprivation will up your cortisol levels.

"Increase cortisol production" is only the very tip of the iceberg.

 

[sprinkles]

Of course. But then you should be able to see things objectively, but apparently either you don't want to, either you can't.

I could have said the same of you but I know better.

 

[muir]

Bit of a difference here actually. Have you ever met a street preacher? I have. A street preacher intrudes on innocent passersby and makes threats and doomsday prophecies and tells people they are going to hell and the world's about to end. Frequently they have one group they like to target. Street preachers assume they have the right to other people's time and attention and they grab it very forcefully.

Usually with TED talks people don't feel accosted and it's their choice to listen to the person, who usually has some expertise on the subject.

The thread starter posted a TED talk and i had a choice whether i wanted to listen

I posted my thoughts and everyone has the choice whether they want to read my thoughts or not...i am not shouting them out on the street

You don't have to read my posts...i'm not forcing you to read my posts. I do however get a lot of thumbs up and rep points

You're not a believer in free speech are you? You'll say anything you can and try and twist things anyway you can to try to stop me from talking about certain issues...only a fool couldn't see how you always try and do this

Also, empowering people to be stronger in all areas of life however they decide is best for them is a good thing. This is not for you to decide.

That was my argument....i said people need to question for themselves whether its the game for them....remember?

I said people should choose and not be told that there is only one way; she's pretty much telling them they should suck it up and act tough

Presumably one could use body language to help gain confidence and power to do many things other than get a corporate job. Here are some examples of things that many people might want to do: ask someone out, perform music in front of a crowd, play sports, or try a new skill they've always wanted to learn. Even try transcendental meditation or really anything they've never done or thought about before. These things all require feeling empowered. And deciding someone simply must be unhappy because of the choices they've made is --- hahaha.... sigh. Arrogant, that's what it is.

You haven't read my posts at all have you?

You always work really hard to try and twist what i say though and misrepresent it....but what you are doing is very transparent!

My issue is that she is teaching business students to be more empowered and concerning everyone else i said that before they try that technique and try to be like her (ie forge a career within that system) perhaps they should question first if it is even the right thing to do for them

P.S. And one other thing -- you'll note that when people made constructive criticism of the ideas in the video, her response was to politely clarify, not claim her critics were sadistic, psychopathic or part of a powerful "Magik" conspiracy working against her. See the difference?

She works at Harvard business school!!!

Do you think she would have that job if what everything she says and does does not align with the will of the powerful people i am talking about?

Come on...think about it!

Or maybe you have thought about it already but don't care?

 

[Quiet]

I partly agree with you but inverted.

My hypothesis is that matter projects mind and mind is the illusion and mind is where the duality lives. This is why many people cannot remember their identity before they were born - because identity is a construct that goes against oneness.

This is also why you meditate and still the mind in order to become luminous, and is also why meditation is a physical practice.

Interesting. I also agree partly with you

Illusion and the concept of duality does originate from the mind. This is where it lives. And then this is projected as matter that is perceived, which confirms the mind's ideas about duality and separation. This is because while we are here, the mind is trapped and limited by the physical body. Which means the mind is literally being trapped by perception. When we meditate, we resist perception and judgement, we still the duality mind that separates, and we 'reverse' or quieten the autonomic nervous system- our fight or flight response- the reptillian brain. Through meditation we can still, engage, and transform our central nervous system- the physical Tree of Good and Evil (which regulates perception) and in the quietness we see clearly the spiritual and true Tree of Life within us- Christ/Buddhic Consciousness. We go into a state of being. In this state there is no perception or judgement. We are, and everything is. We interact with everything without the need to separate or label- there is no past nor future, just now. Simultaneously it feels like flowing water, and stillness. When we look out at the world through a meditative state, in mindfullness, it is perfectly clear that we are One.

Yes identity can be construct of separation that goes against Oneness. Any perception of identity is separation and leads to projection. Yet knowledge of true self is Oneness and the power of creation. Are you referring to our past life identities or are your referring to our identity as God?
A big part of my release from ego belief was releasing all attachment to past life experience. Before it was hard to not see all those 'lives' as a part of my individual identity, something which belonged to me exclusively. Now i find it difficult to tell the difference between 'my' past life from 'someone else'. When i stop percieving a difference, lol when i stop percieving, i will be free of the mind prisons that ive constructed

 

[barbad0s]

Hi @LucyJr . Life has been busy, but here are links to scholarly articles I promised to you regarding genetic predisposition towards depression, found by doing a quick Google search.


The Influence of Genetic Factors and Life Stress on Depression Among Adolescent Girls

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=204788

Model fitting also showed that at least part of the liability to depression and to life events can be linked to a common set of genes in the adolescent girls, and there is a notable developmental increase in the genetic variance for life events.

5-HTTLPR polymorphism impacts human cingulate-amygdala interactions: a genetic susceptibility mechanism for depression

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v8/n6/abs/nn1463.html

These genotype-related alterations in anatomy and function of an amygdala-cingulate feedback circuit critical for emotion regulation implicate a developmental, systems-level mechanism underlying normal emotional reactivity and genetic susceptibility for depression.

Alterations in neuropeptide Y levels and Y1 binding sites in the Flinders Sensitive Line rats, a genetic animal model of depression

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304394099002347

The results demonstrate a good correlation between NPY peptide and mRNA expression, and sustain the possible involvement of NPY and Y1 receptors in depression.

Genetic and environmental influences on the temporal association between earlier anxiety and later depression in girls

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322301011611

Results: Model-fitting results suggest there are distinct etiologic patterns underlying the association between depression and the different anxiety syndromes during the course of development: 1) specific genetic influences on depression after age 14 reflect liability to symptoms of earlier overanxious disorder (OAD) and simple phobias; ...

Genetic Epidemiology of Major Depression: Review and Meta-Analysis

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=157&page=1552&journalI..

CONCLUSIONS: Major depression is a familial disorder, and its familiality mostly or entirely results from genetic influences. ...

Here are some links for you @niffer
I will post more when my computer will be fixed hopefully.
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392
http://chriskresser.com/the-chemical-imbalance-myth

This is just for the "chemical imbalance" myth.
I will post for the false assumption that depression
has any links with the genes too.


Here is a ground-shaking book:

America Fooled: The Truth About Antidepressants, Antipsychotics And How We've Been Deceived
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0977307506/?tag=infjs-20

None of the claims made in these reviews have anything to say regarding the genetic component of psychological/mood dysfunction.

"I am constantly amazed by how many patients who come to see me believe or want to believe that their difficulties are biologic and can be relieved by a pill. This is despite the fact that modern psychiatry has yet to convincingly prove the genetic/biologic cause of any single mental illness. However, this does not stop psychiatry from making essentially unproven claims that depression, bipolar illness, anxiety disorders, alcoholism and a host of other disorders are in fact primarily biologic and probably genetic in origin, and that it is only a matter of time until all this is proven. This kind of faith in science and progress is staggering, not to mention naive and perhaps delusional. (Against Biologic Psychiatry, Dr. David Kaiser, Psychologist, Psychiatric Times, December, Dec. 1996, Vol. XIII, Issue 12)

"The ideology of bioreductionist psychiatry is that depression, schizophrenia, and other illnesses are biomedically distinct and genetically driven. Decades of fishing for supporting data have yielded nothing of substance, however" (Pseudoscience in Biological Psychiatry, Colin A. Ross, M.D., & Alvin Pam, Ph.D., 1995, p. 140).

These had both finished being written prior to 1996. "Prove" is a word that is hardly used in this area of study, and saying "nothing of substance" seems highly subjective in this context.

 

[this is only temporary]

The thread starter posted a TED talk and i had a choice whether i wanted to listen

I posted my thoughts and everyone has the choice whether they want to read my thoughts or not...i am not shouting them out on the street

You don't have to read my posts...i'm not forcing you to read my posts. I do however get a lot of thumbs up and rep points

You're not a believer in free speech are you? You'll say anything you can and try and twist things anyway you can to try to stop me from talking about certain issues...only a fool couldn't see how you always try and do this



That was my argument....i said people need to question for themselves whether its the game for them....remember?

I said people should choose and not be told that there is only one way; she's pretty much telling them they should suck it up and act tough



You haven't read my posts at all have you?

You always work really hard to try and twist what i say though and misrepresent it....but what you are doing is very transparent!

My issue is that she is teaching business students to be more empowered and concerning everyone else i said that before they try that technique and try to be like her (ie forge a career within that system) perhaps they should question first if it is even the right thing to do for them



She works at Harvard business school!!!

Do you think she would have that job if what everything she says and does does not align with the will of the powerful people i am talking about?

Come on...think about it!

Or maybe you have thought about it already but don't care?

Morning!

Ok, re: all that.... Yes, I believe in freedom of speech very much, and that's one reason I (generally) do not try to force people to talk about a grand conspiracy when the topic of the tread is how body language affects one's personality. Criticism does not equal suppressing freedom of speech.

And while we're making suspicious accusations about each other's personal beliefs, I find it highly suspicious that you are reacting so negatively to a video that 1. is not trying to sell anybody anything, is merely proposing that people stand around like Wonder Woman in private for a little while to help gain confidence to meet their goals, whatever they may be, and 2. is trying to reduce fear and empower others who may be feeling powerless. Hm. Could it be that you like people to feel afraid and unempowered? So they'll more easily follow your will and beliefs? (see? I can do that too!)

 

[muir]

Morning!

Good evening!

Ok, re: all that.... Yes, I believe in freedom of speech very much, and that's one reason I (generally) do not try to force people to talk about a grand conspiracy when the topic of the tread is how body language affects one's personality. Criticism does not equal suppressing freedom of speech.

Well firstly if you believe in freedom of speech then you wouldn't try to get people you disagree with to shut up or at the very least try to tie them up in a personal wrangle that accomplishes nothing!

I appreciate that you currently don't understand the importance that education plays in the grand conspiracy or the way in which TED has edited the talks of speakers such as Graham hancock who are a threat to the conspiracy but that is exactly the point of my posts so that such dots can be joined up in order to create a more complete picture of what is going in the world

If you do not understand the importance of analysing the public words of profs from Harvard in the light of a wider context then maybe you should spend less time trying to apply ad hominum attacks to me and more time listening to what i am saying in my posts and you might just get a glimpse of something that you have never perceived before!

And while we're making suspicious accusations about each other's personal beliefs, I find it highly suspicious that you are reacting so negatively to a video that 1. is not trying to sell anybody anything,

Ah thats where you are wrong....every speaker is trying to convince people of something

Its wise to always consider where information is coming from, who is behind it and what their agenda is

is merely proposing that people stand around like Wonder Woman in private for a little while to help gain confidence to meet their goals, whatever they may be, and

No that's not what she is doing

She is making a living teaching the corporate footsoldiers of tomorrow power psychology at no less an institution than Harvard Business school....the home of the US monied el-ite

I also made the statement that what is important in our society, where we are often coralled into playing the game of the corporations, is that perhaps people shouldn't try to quash that inner voice that is telling them that something is wrong, as they adjust their tie (noose) around their neck before stepping into that tense job interview at some corporate monster, and perhaps instead question if the whole corporate system is in fact something they should offer themselves upto in indentured servitude in the first place; perhaps people shouldn't just suck it up and act tough but should instead question what sort of organisation they want to support

That's my opinion...and until the corporatocracy lock the country down i have a right to express it just as you have a right to ignore it

2. is trying to reduce fear and empower others who may be feeling powerless. Hm. Could it be that you like people to feel afraid and unempowered?

I have already dealt with this point...you are taking me round in circles here, but perhaps that is the aim...to bog me down?

I believe empowerment is not about stepping into corrupt systems and finding ways to over ride our instincts as we do it, but rather in becoming consciously aware of the wider context of our actions so that we might make a choice that sits comfortably with us

So they'll more easily follow your will and beliefs? (see? I can do that too!)

If you are afraid of having your mind corrupted by the things i say perhaps you could just sit in a power pose for a bit to 'empower' yourself?

 

[Radiantshadow]

I think there are far more numerous voices today then two decades ago that still proclaim very clear what Dr. Kaiser has stated in that quote.
Today there are not just quotes or articles, there are books which explain how these big and fat lies keep hurting milions of people, while the big companies still making huge amounts of money.
,

I have not kept up with this thread, so my response to you may be redundant. However...

The amount of quotations, articles, or books one can cite to support or negate an argument is irrelevant. Everyone has bias and it manifests in everything we do. The veracity of and evidence behind the authors' claims is all that matters. Current mental health research and practice has shown Dr. Kaiser to be half-right: most mental disorders and illnesses are not purely physical or chemical in nature. Instead, they are often the result of complicated interactions between biological and mental processes, whether that means having a genetic predisposition to negative thinking that is amplified by, say, abuse or poverty to produce depression or having under-or-over-reactive brain activity that can be moderated by psychotherapy and, if needed, drugs. I am quite willing to agree that drugs can be over-prescribed and rashly depended upon; however, that does not mean drugs have no place in treating people.

Bottom-line: humans are complex and psychopathology is not a black and white issue.

>.> Shame on me for helping divert the thread from the effects of body language on self-conception.

 

[barbad0s]

>.> Shame on me for helping divert the thread from the effects of body language on self-conception.

Lol. It's a rabbit hole rendezvous. Sorry [MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION] .~

 

[sprinkles]

Interesting. I also agree partly with you

Illusion and the concept of duality does originate from the mind. This is where it lives. And then this is projected as matter that is perceived, which confirms the mind's ideas about duality and separation. This is because while we are here, the mind is trapped and limited by the physical body. Which means the mind is literally being trapped by perception. When we meditate, we resist perception and judgement, we still the duality mind that separates, and we 'reverse' or quieten the autonomic nervous system- our fight or flight response- the reptillian brain. Through meditation we can still, engage, and transform our central nervous system- the physical Tree of Good and Evil (which regulates perception) and in the quietness we see clearly the spiritual and true Tree of Life within us- Christ/Buddhic Consciousness. We go into a state of being. In this state there is no perception or judgement. We are, and everything is. We interact with everything without the need to separate or label- there is no past nor future, just now. Simultaneously it feels like flowing water, and stillness. When we look out at the world through a meditative state, in mindfullness, it is perfectly clear that we are One.

Yes identity can be construct of separation that goes against Oneness. Any perception of identity is separation and leads to projection. Yet knowledge of true self is Oneness and the power of creation. Are you referring to our past life identities or are your referring to our identity as God?
A big part of my release from ego belief was releasing all attachment to past life experience. Before it was hard to not see all those 'lives' as a part of my individual identity, something which belonged to me exclusively. Now i find it difficult to tell the difference between 'my' past life from 'someone else'. When i stop percieving a difference, lol when i stop percieving, i will be free of the mind prisons that ive constructed

Well the thing is you were others and god before now. There's not just one past life for an individual, but many.

Edit:
And more on that point, it wasn't that you were another person, and then that one person's ancestor, and then that one person's ancestor. For a given generation you're not only multiple persons, but also plants, animals, the earth itself, the other planets, and the stars. All of that is your ancestors.

 

[LucyJr]

These had both finished being written prior to 1996. "Prove" is a word that is hardly used in this area of study, and saying "nothing of substance" seems highly subjective in this context.

Yes, I know "prove" is a word that is hardly used in this area of study. That was what I was trying to say. They use other words though. My favorite is "suggests".

None of the claims made in these reviews have anything to say regarding the genetic component of psychological/mood dysfunction.

Yes, if you look into that very comment I posted, I wrote that "This is just for the "chemical imbalance" myth."

Edit:
niffer, overall I don't make claims of truthiness because I post some quotes or books. This is indeed a very delicate science, the psyche of a man and its amazingly complex body and especially the brain. So in what I posted, I only try to put an alternative view, so people can have where to chose from. Perhaps, its a mix between the two views.
Perhaps indeed there are genetic components that cause depression, but maybe the power of the mind can heal and can regenerate the genes, like the law of attraction claim to (although I don't agree with many of its claims).
The point I'm making is that there is hope, and many people think there is no such a think when it comes to a genetic depression. You can just take the drugs and ameliorate the pain and forget. And I know that because I read that there are many people who conffesed that there can be healing from what is supposed to be a genetic depression.
So, hope you understand what I'm trying to say here

 

[LucyJr]

I have not kept up with this thread, so my response to you may be redundant. However...

The amount of quotations, articles, or books one can cite to support or negate an argument is irrelevant. Everyone has bias and it manifests in everything we do. The veracity of and evidence behind the authors' claims is all that matters. Current mental health research and practice has shown Dr. Kaiser to be half-right: most mental disorders and illnesses are not purely physical or chemical in nature. Instead, they are often the result of complicated interactions between biological and mental processes, whether that means having a genetic predisposition to negative thinking that is amplified by, say, abuse or poverty to produce depression or having under-or-over-reactive brain activity that can be moderated by psychotherapy and, if needed, drugs. I am quite willing to agree that drugs can be over-prescribed and rashly depended upon; however, that does not mean drugs have no place in treating people.

Bottom-line: humans are complex and psychopathology is not a black and white issue.

>.> Shame on me for helping divert the thread from the effects of body language on self-conception.

I so agree with what I bolded there. That's why I don't think and I don't want to claim that my argument is true because I have quotations and/or books. After all, you guys that think depression is caused by genes or biochemical imbalances can quote or show far more numerically text or studies, because that's the prevailing view, and almost everybody believe it. So in posting what I posted, I just balanced the table. Wehter is true or not, its what the individual decide.

 

[muir]

>.> Shame on me for helping divert the thread from the effects of body language on self-conception.

SHAME ON YOU!

may shame be your portion for diverting this pure unsullied thread from its straight and sanctified path! To the stocks with you....water and bread shall be your diet, as befits a sinner and may tomatoes rain down like the scorn of the almighty as you sit and ponder your wayward disruptive ways!!

 

[say what]

It's fine, I probably wasn't very clear.

To go further though, take for example cortisol which you mentioned. Many factors contribute to cortisol production itself. Cholesterol is required for cortisol production in a really complicated cycle of synthesizing many different molecules. Also caffeine, alcohol, and sleep deprivation will up your cortisol levels.

"Increase cortisol production" is only the very tip of the iceberg.

Agreed.

I was thinking of cortisol production in regard to the 'fight/flight' mechanism, and it's association with stress.

This has been a really interesting read.

 

[Stu]

body language and experiments that show the effect it has on your hormones.......The experiments that they mentioned seemed to be pointing to the body having an effect on the mind. I am open to that possibility. I think that may be why yoga has been proven to have a positive impact on mental health.

I don't buy it. Honestly, these kind of things are funny to me, it makes me laugh.
Real power I think comes from the mind, from inside, not from some 'poses'.......the cycle starts from the mind, from what one is thinking, not from the body and then affects the mind. Hormones are just side effects...................The mind is a independently existing substance, non-physical in nature and non-extendet, that can not be reduced to the brain nor caused by the brain, or explain in terms of physical properties.

Your mind is just another part of your body and your body is just an extension of your mind.

Having danced and practiced yoga for many years I can attest to the fact that your body does indeed shape your mind, quite powerfully, in fact.

The brain is not the mind. The brain is a part of the body, another organ.
The body is the projection of the mind. The soul, or spirit, is the vessel for the body. The body is contained within this spiritual aura, and it is the spirit that envelopes and endows this bag of carbon with life. Although the spirit can and frequently leaves the body, the spirit needs to be committed to the body for the body to be 'alive'.
Basicaly we are spirit, and we have mind..................All matter originates from mind. Mind is independant of matter, it is. Matter is dependant on mind, and only exists because of mind.

Is everything we think, feel, experience...is every sensation, every mentation, every perception, every insight ultimately resting on a series of discrete "physical" events? I would say yes.

Is answering in the affirmative placing matter over spirit? I would say no. Whenever these disputes arise I see the materialists painstakingly explaining a chemical, molecular or even a nuclear sequence to which all unfolding events can be ascribed. But that argument does not negate "spirit" as being the ultimate mover.

The woman in the video attributed a random act of non malicious violence as being a life changing event. The result of which was a loss of mental prowess and her subsequent struggle to regain that which she most identified with. It all can be explained in a very materialistic way however it is in matter that the spirit is expressed.

I believe that in order to expand your consciousness you must train your mind. To do that you have to see that the mind and body are one, that matter is spirit.

 

[Nixie]

I hate to be on topic but I found the TEDDYBEAR talk interesting. I noticed that I frequently use the power poses rather than the poses where someone tries to appear smaller. I didn't even realize the signal that sent to other people. I find myself seeing how pose affects other people and if they really do mirror the opposite behavior. So far, I noticed that other people who use power poses regularly maintain them when we converse even if I'm in a power pose too. I find myself intrigued by the idea of changing mood with physical markers. I did theatre for many years, I have been trained in some ways to understand how to create impressions and it parallels what the speaker was saying about changing your attitude with body language.