You may not remember me... but I could use some INFJ input

[frozen_water]

hello. Most of you probably don't know who I am, but I spent a few weeks here a really long time ago. Anyway, I'm writing up cognitive function descriptions for another site, and was wondering if I could run my Ni description by you for an accuracy check?

Since there are many descriptions online, I'm making it my goal in writing these are to make every type who doesn't have that function be able to clearly see how it's different from the other similar functions, and for those who lead with that function to say "get out of my head!" Ni is a really tricky one, so I remembered this place and thought I'd ask for some input here. If you don't mind...


Ni is in intraverted Perceiving function, meaning that, like Si, it gathers information from within. Specifically, it perceives abstract meanings, symbols, underlying principles, and connects wildly varying ideas from a single root. For this reason, many Ni-dominant people feel like aliens, as if they perceive a completely different reality from everyone else. As they begin to grow up, they may become confused and wonder why everyone else doesn't see things as interrelated as they do. Ni is also the function of double meanings. While an Ne-person may argue two contradicting points of view at two separate times, Ni will--sometimes quite reasonably--affirm both points of view at the same time, and honestly believe that both are true. Ni is also very good at gathering the information necessary to predict the future, and seeing a situation from different perspectives. A person with a strong Ni can switch from one point of view to another almost effortlessly, flip flopping until a most favorable one--or most favorable few--are found. People with a strong Ni will find the deep themes of poetry as easy to interpret as the surface ones, and have the ability to easily pick skills learned in one area and reapply them in another.

For these reasons, Ni is a very "convergent" function. Contradicting ideas are brought together and called "same." The lines between different points of view are blurred. Many different situations are solved using the same set of internal principles. Many different symbols collide into the same physical object. While Ne diverges from one point into many, Ni synthesizes many points into one.

(for reference, the parallel for the convergent/divergent thing at the end, with Ne, is... 'If you are an intuitive, you will probably understand how Ne can be called a "divergent" function. It looks at one situation, and imagines many possibilities. It looks at one object, and invents many uses. It starts by looking at banks, and ends up filtering through politics, conspiricies, political theory, philosophy, and then many individual philosophers' metaphysical ideas. Wikipedia is truly Ne's Playground. In each of these cases, however, Ne begins at one point and splits off into many directions.')


does that resonate with you guys, or am I way off?

 

[Shai Gar]

I remember you. But I don't know anything about Introverted Intuition except that it's like a teleporting function, and you don't need to see where you're going like nightcrawler, you sort of bounce all over the place like deadpool when he was going extra and intradimensionally to track down cable.

that help?

 

[IndigoSensor]

Sounds pretty good for a general overview.

 

[halicon]

does that resonate with you guys, or am I way off?

works well for me

 

[Milon]

Thanks for sharing! Believe it or not this actually clears up some things about Ni. Definitely resonates with me.

Thanks!

 

[frozen_water]

cool stuff, thanks guys! Glad I could help, Milon .

Not many responses... but I guess I'll just assume that nobody else had anything to add, haha.

Ok. In the same vein, then, would you guys mind trying to pick apart my Fe description, too? I spent a lot of time on the intuitions, but I'm relatively sure the Te/Fe descriptions are still lacking.

"Fe is an extroverted Judging function, meaning that it systematically organizes the outside world using information gathered from within. Instead of logic and efficiency, however, its decisions are relationship-based. While Te asks "what's the most efficient way to fix this problem?" Fe asks "how can all the relationships in this situation be preserved as much as possible?" These relationships may be anything, including family, friends, coworkers, club members, or strangers that you just met on the street. No relationship is inconsequential to an Fe-dominant person. As a result, if a long-tied friend is upset at a dominant-Fe type for some reason, it will crush their spirit and hurt them inside far worse than any other type.

The organization that Fe engages in, then, relates to their relationships. People are identified by social networks, and the individual with Fe seeks to maintain each of these social networks, and integrate the ones that can be integrated harmoniously, bringing people together (unless it would create conflict). As a result, Fe very often manifests itself in other ways, too. It is largely responsible for honest empathy (having true emotions that change to match other peoples'), and also helps maintain and enforce cultural and social mores. Since traditions and cultural views bind people together, ExFJ types will often promote and enforce them, because they know that traditions help to bind some people together, and some relationships are prone to fall apart if they're ignored."

This'll be.... well... I'd like to say "the last time I'll bother you guys," but it's probably not true, because I'm going to go through and try to write type descriptions next. I'm sure I'll be back to check in when I get around to doing INFJs, too.

 

[halicon]

cool stuff, thanks guys! Glad I could help, Milon .

Not many responses... but I guess I'll just assume that nobody else had anything to add, haha.

Ok. In the same vein, then, would you guys mind trying to pick apart my Fe description, too? I spent a lot of time on the intuitions, but I'm relatively sure the Te/Fe descriptions are still lacking.

"Fe is an extroverted Judging function, meaning that it systematically organizes the outside world using information gathered from within. Instead of logic and efficiency, however, its decisions are relationship-based. While Te asks "what's the most efficient way to fix this problem?" Fe asks "how can all the relationships in this situation be preserved as much as possible?" These relationships may be anything, including family, friends, coworkers, club members, or strangers that you just met on the street. No relationship is inconsequential to an Fe-dominant person. As a result, if a long-tied friend is upset at a dominant-Fe type for some reason, it will crush their spirit and hurt them inside far worse than any other type.

i am not sure that i systematically organise the outside world using gathered information from within.

I think for me it would be more accurate to say: Organise the outside world using information based from within.

sometimes it is not that i match things up to information. its that they naturally match up without me having to do much. i think its an infj thing of sometimes just being able to know something without knowing why which does play into people and relationships and our behaviour.

its not that I sit and gather information out of choice. it just happens.

lets see what others have to say.

 

[frozen_water]

right... yeah, that makes sense, because you're Ni-dominant. I don't think anyone really "tries" to use their dominant function. It's just so thoroughly ingrained in you that it happens. Trying to get me to be illogical is also pretty difficult. Despite an Ne secondary, I can't just come up with new, completely random ideas. Even when playing Apples to Apples (jokingly. It's like an unspoken rule, with us, that you dont' ever actually go with the "best" choice, but the funniiest one) with people, my brother said "you know... you might be the only person I know who can come to very logical, funny conclusions." Every step still has to be justified in some way, even if I'm not trying to justify it. Unbridled Ne doesn't come to me the way unbridled Ti does.

I do see what you're saying, "based from within," though. I'd said information "gathered" from within mostly cause I wrote the descriptions in-parallel with each other, because it would make the differences stick out more. When you put it that way, though, I think you're right. "Gathering" information is nonsensical for the intraverted Perception functions. If it's inside of you, then it doesn't need to be gathered.

Thank you for your help. Other points of view and criticisms are also still much appreciated, of course.

 

[Final]

Fe is an extroverted Judging function, meaning that it systematically organizes the outside world using information gathered from within. Instead of logic and efficiency, however, its decisions are relationship-based. While Te asks "what's the most efficient way to fix this problem?" Fe asks "how can all the relationships in this situation be preserved as much as possible?" These relationships may be anything, including family, friends, coworkers, club members, or strangers that you just met on the street. No relationship is inconsequential to an Fe-dominant person. As a result, if a long-tied friend is upset at a dominant-Fe type for some reason, it will crush their spirit and hurt them inside far worse than any other type.

The organization that Fe engages in, then, relates to their relationships. People are identified by social networks, and the individual with Fe seeks to maintain each of these social networks, and integrate the ones that can be integrated harmoniously, bringing people together (unless it would create conflict). As a result, Fe very often manifests itself in other ways, too. It is largely responsible for honest empathy (having true emotions that change to match other peoples'), and also helps maintain and enforce cultural and social mores. Since traditions and cultural views bind people together, ExFJ types will often promote and enforce them, because they know that traditions help to bind some people together, and some relationships are prone to fall apart if they're ignored.

The first part of the first paragraph, I totally agree with. When I had to make and assign tasks to groups in Boy Scouts, I did it along the lines of who got along best with whom.

The last two sentences of the first paragraph confused me because I expected the paragraph to be about Fe's ability to organize. It seems like those two sentences should be a different paragraph.

Speaking of matching emotions to others', there was a thread about people with Fe forcing themselves to feel how they expect they should feel. ...but I couldn't find it

 

[frozen_water]

I think... I may actually know the thread you're talking about. Back when I was here the first time (however many months ago), I believe that thread about Fe-types forcing themselves to feel was just starting up. I can't for the life of me remember what it said, but I'll see if I can dig it up. I might have left a few posts there asking questions, if I dug through my old posts, because it does sound familiar.

Thank you, by the way, for picking off those last two sentences. You're absolutely right, and I appreciate it .

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I agree pretty well with both of those. The Ni description resonated very well with me -- it seemed as dead-on as just about any description'll get. The description of Fe seemed pretty good too

 

[Milon]

"Fe is an extroverted Judging function, meaning that it systematically organizes the outside world using information gathered from within. Instead of logic and efficiency, however, its decisions are relationship-based. While Te asks "what's the most efficient way to fix this problem?" Fe asks "how can all the relationships in this situation be preserved as much as possible?" These relationships may be anything, including family, friends, coworkers, club members, or strangers that you just met on the street. No relationship is inconsequential to an Fe-dominant person. As a result, if a long-tied friend is upset at a dominant-Fe type for some reason, it will crush their spirit and hurt them inside far worse than any other type.

The organization that Fe engages in, then, relates to their relationships. People are identified by social networks, and the individual with Fe seeks to maintain each of these social networks, and integrate the ones that can be integrated harmoniously, bringing people together (unless it would create conflict). As a result, Fe very often manifests itself in other ways, too. It is largely responsible for honest empathy (having true emotions that change to match other peoples'), and also helps maintain and enforce cultural and social mores. Since traditions and cultural views bind people together, ExFJ types will often promote and enforce them, because they know that traditions help to bind some people together, and some relationships are prone to fall apart if they're ignored."

This'll be.... well... I'd like to say "the last time I'll bother you guys," but it's probably not true, because I'm going to go through and try to write type descriptions next. I'm sure I'll be back to check in when I get around to doing INFJs, too.

It's a good description to start with, but you need to expand on it. Don't leave your reader with the impression that Fe is only concerned with one-on-one human relationships. It also looks at relationships between systems, ideas, groups of people, etc. For example, when a new policy is put into effect at my work, I'm immediately asking myself how this policy with affect our customer base, how it will affect my department, how it will affect the company as a whole, etc. Fe is much larger than just how I relate to you.

While I was reading your description I had a bit of a mini-revelation. I'll toss it out here because it might help your descriptions. I don't know how accurate it is, but it's kinda neat. The introverted functions start outside the self (with many different perspectives/pieces of data) and draw inward to one point (the self), while the extroverted functions begin with one point (the self, internal) and go outside the self, affecting many different perspectives/pieces of data. Hope that made sense.

 

[frozen_water]

Thank you very much... that was quite helpful. Now I just have to get off my lazy ass and go to fix the things .

to be honest, I think that the last part of that post (about starting at the self and reaching outwards, or starting outwards and connecting into the "self" point) has to do with the fact that the two descriptions I showed were an introverted information-gathering one, and an extroverted information-using one.

It's like how they say, "an introvert directs and derives their energy internally, while an extrovert directs and derives their energy externally." What psychologists are really saying is that "someone with an introverted/extroverted dominant function [does those things]." For you, with Ni, the information is taken from outside, but quickly internalized and used as "the information pool" for Judgment. In contrast, the Judging function acts on the outside--drawing information from that Ni-pool and acting on the world with it.

It's a fantastic observation... but I bet you it only applies to Judging types. It's probably easier to recognize if you're an Introverted Judging type, too.