Would the world be a happier place if everyone were atheist ? | INFJ Forum

Would the world be a happier place if everyone were atheist ?

NK278

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So. I'm an atheist agnostic (atheist is belief) (agnostic is knowledge). There are also theist agnostics. Regardless , do you think the world would be a happier place if everyone were either one of those and practicing humanists as opposed to fueling their faith/spirituality through the funnel of a "religion" ???


I think yes.
 
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I think religious faith can be a great comfort to people especially in very troubled times. It's hard to see what's happening in Gaza right now though and defend any organized religion. Honestly though I think if all religions disappeared tomorrow, fanatics would still be here and they'd still engage in violence just in some other format. I think it's high time the rational non violent majority found a way to disarm those who only seek power and authority to inflict harm on others. If you mean that people would be better of realising "the truth" rather than be misled by religion, perhaps that's valid, but I'm not sure anyone can honestly say exactly what the answer to " life the universe and everything" is.
 
Religion brings about more good than bad. Even with the events in Gaza, today's versionsofreligion bring people closer, happier, and kinder. For example many charities are run by religious groups. The media likes to portray the bad like inGaza, but ask the good is only seen locally. I've seen many religious groups change people's lives for the better, and not by telling people how to think. Just the sense of community really helped those people. Whether those religions are correct or not is not my place to say, but my opinion is that they are not very accurate. But the effect is still there.
 
Gene Roddenberry gave an interview one time in which he stated that the point of Star Trek was to envisage a time in which mankind valued diversity and difference.

I dont see how an athiest believing that the world would be a better place if everyone professed the same beliefs as them is any different from anyone of any other creed professing universal agreement with their beliefs would be for the better.
 
I think religious faith can be a great comfort to people especially in very troubled times. It's hard to see what's happening in Gaza right now though and defend any organized religion. Honestly though I think if all religions disappeared tomorrow, fanatics would still be here and they'd still engage in violence just in some other format. I think it's high time the rational non violent majority found a way to disarm those who only seek power and authority to inflict harm on others. If you mean that people would be better of realising "the truth" rather than be misled by religion, perhaps that's valid, but I'm not sure anyone can honestly say exactly what the answer to " life the universe and everything" is.

I dont believe what is happening in the middle has anything to do with religion, its more like ethno-nationalism. Its always ethno-nationalism.
 
I think religious faith can be a great comfort to people especially in very troubled times. It's hard to see what's happening in Gaza right now though and defend any organized religion. Honestly though I think if all religions disappeared tomorrow, fanatics would still be here and they'd still engage in violence just in some other format. I think it's high time the rational non violent majority found a way to disarm those who only seek power and authority to inflict harm on others. If you mean that people would be better of realising "the truth" rather than be misled by religion, perhaps that's valid, but I'm not sure anyone can honestly say exactly what the answer to " life the universe and everything" is.

I don't think there is an answer either but agree it's time those who do choose to utilize religion for their strength and personal beliefs should get together already and be a louder force then that have been. I'm not getting into my opinion politically though I must say the world is a very scary place right now and I just wonder what it would be like if people didn't have religion to abuse and hide under.
 
Gene Roddenberry gave an interview one time in which he stated that the point of Star Trek was to envisage a time in which mankind valued diversity and difference.

I dont see how an athiest believing that the world would be a better place if everyone professed the same beliefs as them is any different from anyone of any other creed professing universal agreement with their beliefs would be for the better.

Atheists are all different with different beliefs. The point would be, people could no longer use "God" or "Allah" as their justification and rationality when wanting to be crazy. Without that veil ... Would there be less crazy?

That's where I was going with that. It would be interesting to me to see if the number of crazy would reduce for no other reason than people would have to own it more blatantly .. "Well I want to be crazy because I feel like it" rather than, "I'm crazy because me religion says so". The person would have no choice but to listen to themselves in a very different light/perspective.

Simplifying the point but I hope what I was trying to say is making more sense :)
 
Atheists are all different with different beliefs. The point would be, people could no longer use "God" or "Allah" as their justification and rationality when wanting to be crazy. Without that veil ... Would there be less crazy?

That's where I was going with that. It would be interesting to me to see if the number of crazy would reduce for no other reason than people would have to own it more blatantly .. "Well I want to be crazy because I feel like it" rather than, "I'm crazy because me religion says so". The person would have no choice but to listen to themselves in a very different light/perspective.

Simplifying the point but I hope what I was trying to say is making more sense :)

Dude, are you kidding?

Do you have any idea how much bloodshed there has been in the world since the inception of secularism and modern political ideologies? You want to play the numbers game between the ages of Capitalism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, Imperialism and the majority of human history?

There has been much, much greater death dealing as a result of modernity than any religion or belief in God, the abdicating of responsibility for killing or crime which you are talking about can be and I'm sure is something which would persist in a world which was predominantly atheist, in fact I think its arguably the case that the world already is predominantly atheist and what you are talking about is a matter not of belief in God but using God as a pretext or flag of convenience, which is actually prohibited by the first commandment properly so understood.

Proceeding from a position of modern conceit its easy to conflate religious belief with craziness but its mistaken, there was a time when atheism was conflated with craziness too and that was equally mistaken but not lately.
 
Dude, are you kidding?

Do you have any idea how much bloodshed there has been in the world since the inception of secularism and modern political ideologies? You want to play the numbers game between the ages of Capitalism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, Imperialism and the majority of human history?

There has been much, much greater death dealing as a result of modernity than any religion or belief in God, the abdicating of responsibility for killing or crime which you are talking about can be and I'm sure is something which would persist in a world which was predominantly atheist, in fact I think its arguably the case that the world already is predominantly atheist and what you are talking about is a matter not of belief in God but using God as a pretext or flag of convenience, which is actually prohibited by the first commandment properly so understood.

Proceeding from a position of modern conceit its easy to conflate religious belief with craziness but its mistaken, there was a time when atheism was conflated with craziness too and that was equally mistaken but not lately.

I wasn't playing a numbers game. Dude. My apologies if my thoughts were offensive in any way. I was just sharing an opinion and was curious what others thought. Maybe my beliefs are the minority here and it was a bad topic to approach.
 
Atheists are all different with different beliefs. The point would be, people could no longer use "God" or "Allah" as their justification and rationality when wanting to be crazy. Without that veil ... Would there be less crazy?

That's where I was going with that. It would be interesting to me to see if the number of crazy would reduce for no other reason than people would have to own it more blatantly .. "Well I want to be crazy because I feel like it" rather than, "I'm crazy because me religion says so". The person would have no choice but to listen to themselves in a very different light/perspective.

Simplifying the point but I hope what I was trying to say is making more sense :)
If you consider it as only the negative caused by religion then yes, getting ride of religion will eliminate that negative. However you must also consider thegood that religion does. Getting rid of religion will get rid of both the positive and negative effects. If you think that religion does more good than not, then your concept will result in a net less good. That is not preferred.
People far more often use other reasons than God be crazy. One of the current reasons to act crazy in my opinion is the persuit of pleasure in some form. Religion lets a reason to combat that persuit of pleasure. Removing that could bring about even more bad than is already here. Not many people can logically reason out a moral good path to take. Religion offers the majority of people a moral guide to follow (this is not saying all religions people are like this, but I have met several people who said they shouldn't do this or that because the bible says so and if you ask them why, your lucky to get a blank stare). There are extremists to every ideology.
 
I wasn't playing a numbers game. Dude. My apologies if my thoughts were offensive in any way. I was just sharing an opinion and was curious what others thought. Maybe my beliefs are the minority here and it was a bad topic to approach.

No not a bad topic! It's obvious you where just offering a topic of conversation based on something you've considered. It's good to talk to people to get an alternative perspective. Yes some people might take it for more than what you meant, but don't let that discourage you. Hopefully our counter arguments where enough to get you to revise or at least reconsider your earlier idea.
 
So. I'm an atheist agnostic (atheist is belief) (agnostic is knowledge).
That sucks. Have you done some basic logic ? It helps you know, at least to define your own worldview.
 
Regardless , do you think the world would be a happier place if everyone were either one of those and practicing humanists as opposed to fueling their faith/spirituality through the funnel of a "religion" ???


I think yes.
Nope, at all.
Since you eliminated god and "religion", it kind of deletes any moral standards, so I don't know what you mean by good..."we are all one?" kind of thing?
 
So. I'm an atheist agnostic (atheist is belief) (agnostic is knowledge). There are also theist agnostics. Regardless , do you think the world would be a happier place if everyone were either one of those and practicing humanists as opposed to fueling their faith/spirituality through the funnel of a "religion" ???


I think yes.

Your terminology is very confused and misplaced. Agnosticism is a neutral stance towards belief in a deity. The etymology of the word relates to 'knowledge,' i.e. gnosis of Greek origin, but so too does 'science.'

gnosis (n.) "special knowledge of spiritual mysteries," 1703, from Greek gnosis "investigation, knowledge," in Christian writers, "higher knowledge of spiritual things" (see gnostic (adj.)).

Gnostic (n.) 1580s, "believer in a mystical religious doctrine of spiritual knowledge," from Late Latin Gnosticus, from Late Greek Gnostikos, noun use of adj. gnostikos "knowing, able to discern," from gnostos "knowable," from gignoskein "to learn, to come to know" (see know). Applied to various early Christian sects that claimed direct personal knowledge beyond the Gospel or the Church hierarchy.

gnostic (adj.) "relating to knowledge," 1650s, from Greek gnostikos "knowing, able to discern," from gnostos "known, perceived, understood," from gignoskein "to learn, to come to know" (see know).

science (n.) mid-14c., "what is known, knowledge (of something) acquired by study; information;" also "assurance of knowledge, certitude, certainty," from Old French science "knowledge, learning, application; corpus of human knowledge" (12c.), from Latin scientia "knowledge, a knowing; expertness," from sciens (genitive scientis) "intelligent, skilled," present participle of scire "to know," probably originally "to separate one thing from another, to distinguish," related to scindere "to cut, divide," from PIE root *skei- "to cut, to split" (cognates: Greek skhizein "to split, rend, cleave," Gothic skaidan, Old English sceadan "to divide, separate;" see shed (v.)).

From late 14c. in English as "book-learning," also "a particular branch of knowledge or of learning;" also "skillfulness, cleverness; craftiness." From c.1400 as "experiential knowledge;" also "a skill, handicraft; a trade." From late 14c. as "collective human knowledge" (especially "that gained by systematic observation, experiment, and reasoning). Modern (restricted) sense of "body of regular or methodical observations or propositions concerning a particular subject or speculation" is attested from 1725; in 17c.-18c. this concept commonly was called philosophy. Sense of "non-arts studies" is attested from 1670s.

Science, since people must do it, is a socially embedded activity. It progresses by hunch, vision, and intuition. Much of its change through time does not record a closer approach to absolute truth, but the alteration of cultural contexts that influence it so strongly. Facts are not pure and unsullied bits of information; culture also influences what we see and how we see it. Theories, moreover, are not inexorable inductions from facts. The most creative theories are often imaginative visions imposed upon facts; the source of imagination is also strongly cultural. [Stephen Jay Gould, introduction to "The Mismeasure of Man," 1981]


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In science you must not talk before you know. In art you must not talk before you do. In literature you must not talk before you think. [John Ruskin, "The Eagle's Nest," 1872]

The distinction is commonly understood as between theoretical truth (Greek episteme) and methods for effecting practical results (tekhne), but science sometimes is used for practical applications and art for applications of skill. To blind (someone) with science "confuse by the use of big words or complex explanations" is attested from 1937, originally noted as a phrase from Australia and New Zealand.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. According to the philosopher William L. Rowe, in the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.
 
I wasn't playing a numbers game. Dude. My apologies if my thoughts were offensive in any way. I was just sharing an opinion and was curious what others thought. Maybe my beliefs are the minority here and it was a bad topic to approach.

I dont think your beliefs are in the minority generally, which is something which gravely saddens me because they demonstrate a great deal of ignorance of religion and its role in the majority of human history.

The balance sheet for harm from religion vs. secularism/modern political ideologies is unlikely to favour secularism/modern political ideologies.

I wouldnt want you to be dissuaded from posting in any way but I'd just encourage you to think a bit about what you do post and how you frame it, I wouldnt have dreamt of posting a thread asking if everyone believed the world would be a better place if atheism and all the other rivals to my way of thinking were to disappear out of respect for those atheists or others who could be frequenting the forums.

There's good threads here in which people discuss their differences, I like them a lot, and they provide a good example of how to go about discussing those differences without appearing to care less about insult or injury ;)
 
Not particularly. Besides, I like options. I'd get bored if everyone was the same.

Additionally, happier world is relative. Even if it were happier the inhabitants probably wouldn't notice once the reference point is lost. Relative privation.
 
Be it religion, nationality or even sports, I think most people want to belong somewhere. With the concept of "us" comes "them".

Maybe we could reach a point where we'd all just be humans, but as is I think people to some extent want to be exclusive. If we'd kill all these factors, we'd kill the individual as well.
 
Be it religion, nationality or even sports, I think most people want to belong somewhere. With the concept of "us" comes "them".

Maybe we could reach a point where we'd all just be humans, but as is I think people to some extent want to be exclusive. If we'd kill all these factors, we'd kill the individual as well.

I know what you mean but I dont think if we lost the crap we'd lose the individual.

Here in NI some people need their enemies more than their enemies needed them, if you know what I mean, its made moving on from the same old, same old to some meaningful peace really difficult. So perhaps you're right after all. I dont like it though.
 
Religion or spirituality has helped many people to cope with difficulties in their lives. I think for many people life is better and they are happier if they believe in a higher power. The problems in the world which are sometimes tied to religion or any other belief system is not in the belief itself but in the people. Humans are deeply flawed and some use their belief systems as a tool to create more harm than good. If they didn't have religion as a tool they would find something else to use to feed their need for control, judgement, power, a sense of entitlement...or whatever it is they are searching for.
 
Sure, let's all say something 'nice'...it is proper in these kinds of threads. Don't forget, the star of tolerance is the key. Make that the fresh air in your 'nice' post.