Why drag others down with you???

[Sriracha]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07/district-attorney-missing-utah-mom-is-most-likely-dead/

I'm sickened by this news story. He blew up his house (gasoline and fire) while he and his kids were inside. You know I can accept that suicide is just another way for someone to relieve themselves of this world, but there is NO justification for killing others in the process.

Not to mention that the 911 dispatcher was durr derp derp derp. Though through the scrutiny on how she handled the call, there is no way police would have been able to do anything.

RIP those poor kids.

 

[endersgone]

Yup, I feel the same way; very sad story

There's things I can't understand in this world...things that sicken me, this is one of those.

 

[Kgal]

Yes. These kinds of stories are very sad and they hurt one's heart. They hurt our community too.

After reading the part about how it was a supervised visitation - I can only guess at what was going on in the man's mind when he made the premeditated decision to kill them all.

"I brought you into this world and I can take you out" ....comes to mind.

 

[Sriracha]

Yes. These kinds of stories are very sad and they hurt one's heart. They hurt our community too.

After reading the part about how it was a supervised visitation - I can only guess at what was going on in the man's mind when he made the premeditated decision to kill them all.

"I brought you into this world and I can take you out" ....comes to mind.

He had been arrested and children removed due to child pornography being in the home. His wife, if you remember, disappeared in 2009. His alibi was that he took his kids camping in the middle of a snowstorm.

 

[Next]

Yes. These kinds of stories are very sad and they hurt one's heart. They hurt our community too.

After reading the part about how it was a supervised visitation - I can only guess at what was going on in the man's mind when he made the premeditated decision to kill them all.

"I brought you into this world and I can take you out" ....comes to mind.

Agreed. Depends on suggestibility.

 

[Quiet]

Very troubling and sad.
I feel sorry for everyone involved, particularly the social worker and the children's grandparents.
I can only imagine what kind of sick twisted lives these boys had been exposed to.
Why was this man not imprisoned? Child pornography on his computer? At the least he should not have been allowed any contact with his very young and vulnerable children

 

[Kgal]

He had been arrested and children removed due to child pornography being in the home. His wife, if you remember, disappeared in 2009. His alibi was that he took his kids camping in the middle of a snowstorm.

I don't think there is any way you will be able to comprehend his reasoning for killing himself and his children. Insanity rarely makes sense.

As for the children being able to visit him: well...you know the current directive in the US.... Family first. Keep the family together if at all possible.

I don't know how I feel about that....

 

[Next]

I don't think there is any way you will be able to comprehend his reasoning for killing himself and his children. Insanity rarely makes sense.

As for the children being able to visit him: well...you know the current directive in the US.... Family first. Keep the family together if at all possible.

I don't know how I feel about that....

That's the consequence of fronting responsibilities you can't handle, obviously, leads to, stop, think, lifes like crossing a road, be cautious when an opportunity present itself.. erm.........just 5 minutes of reflection could have a huge impact on our choices, hence, the results.

 

[Sriracha]

I don't think there is any way you will be able to comprehend his reasoning for killing himself and his children. Insanity rarely makes sense.

As for the children being able to visit him: well...you know the current directive in the US.... Family first. Keep the family together if at all possible.

I don't know how I feel about that....

I know. It's a double edged sword. Social services is horribly underfunded and the only ones that suffer are the children whom which can benefit. Was there any indication or sign that he was suicidal? I would hope to think that their DSHS/DFCS services would have prompted a psych eval before they agreed to supervised visitation. It is something I request on all my parents. It's quite possibly they did not (as they are ridiculously expensive.)

 

[Kgal]

I know. It's a double edged sword. Social services is horribly underfunded and the only ones that suffer are the children whom which can benefit. Was there any indication or sign that he was suicidal? I would hope to think that their DSHS/DFCS services would have prompted a psych eval before they agreed to supervised visitation. It is something I request on all my parents. It's quite possibly they did not (as they are ridiculously expensive.)

One of my intern supervisors worked for CPS - Child Protective Services for a short while after she graduated from social work. She told me she had one case where the judge ordered the children returned to the mother - despite her protestations to the contrary. She maintained the mother was and would lie about whether the child molester she was dating would be allowed back in the home. My supervisor knew it in her gut the mother was lying. But the mother had jumped through all the hoops and took all the parenting classes and the Judge said she had fulfilled her requirements. Send the kids back home to mother! He overruled the social worker. I couldn't believe it. She said the social workers have virtually no say in many of the cases.

Within one week of being home the child molester boyfriend had killed the little girl. And it was all over the news. My supervisor, of course, had been taught how to keep documentation and she had noted she argued with the judge regarding his decision and had talked with her supervisors about it as well. So she was not hounded for it.

But she quit as soon as she could.

It's a sensor "robotic" world out there....and the children suffer for it.

 

[hush]

Yes. These kinds of stories are very sad and they hurt one's heart. They hurt our community too.

After reading the part about how it was a supervised visitation - I can only guess at what was going on in the man's mind when he made the premeditated decision to kill them all.

"I brought you into this world and I can take you out" ....comes to mind.

That doesn't sound the least bit like something someone who was an abusive father/spouse would think or say (/heavy sarcasm). I wish it ended with the two children getting away, but it unfortunately it usually doesn't end there. For him, I imagine that he had to be in a position of power, right until the very end. He gave himself power over his children's lives, who at that point were only objects to him. A means to end, to have the last laugh, even wielding power over life and death. Plus, at this point the children would have been out of his control - and I'm sure that to him that wasn't acceptable.

 

[Kgal]

That doesn't sound the least bit like something someone who was an abusive father/spouse would think or say (/heavy sarcasm). I wish it ended with the two children getting away, but it unfortunately it usually doesn't end there. For him, I imagine that he had to be in a position of power, right until the very end. He gave himself power over his children's lives, who at that point were only objects to him. A means to end, to have the last laugh, even wielding power over life and death. Plus, at this point the children would have been out of his control - and I'm sure that to him that wasn't acceptable.

Exactly!

That's what I meant when I said he was probably thinking "i brought you into this world and I can take you out".

You said it better than I.

 

[hush]

Exactly!

That's what I meant when I said he was probably thinking "i brought you into this world and I can take you out".

You said it better than I.

No such thing. When you said that line, I could hear him clearly saying that, hear his tone of voice, see his facial expression. I actually mentioned it in the first sentence of my response because of how it struck me - that those were exactly the words I'm sure were resonating in his head, and that they were exactly the words I'm sure have been spoken at some point in time by a person about to do a similar thing.

 

[Vicarious]

Why was this man not imprisoned? Child pornography on his computer? At the least he should not have been allowed any contact with his very young and vulnerable children

Technically, they didn't have anything to charge him with...they only had circumstantial evidence against him in the disappearance of his wife and the child porn was found on his father's (the children's grandfather's) computer, who is serving time right now for that.

My gut reaction is that he didn't necessarily end the boys' lives in a "I brought you into this world and I can take you out" fashion...I think he did so to keep the truth of what actually happened to his wife a secret. I think he did murder her and he thought that this way, the boys would never be able to talk about it so no one would ever really know the truth. In his mind, I don't think it occurred to him that this was basically an admission of guilt. It really was just so unnecessary. He was one disturbed individual.

 

[Quiet]

Technically, they didn't have anything to charge him with...they only had circumstantial evidence against him in the disappearance of his wife and the child porn was found on his father's (the children's grandfather's) computer, who is serving time right now for that.

My gut reaction is that he didn't necessarily end the boys' lives in a "I brought you into this world and I can take you out" fashion...I think he did so to keep the truth of what actually happened to his wife a secret. I think he did murder her and he thought that this way, the boys would never be able to talk about it so no one would ever really know the truth. In his mind, I don't think it occurred to him that this was basically an admission of guilt. It really was just so unnecessary. He was one disturbed individual.

Thanks for correcting me, I appreciate it. I hate to accuse someone of being a pedophile if they're not. Its hard to understand the scope of these case by reading one article and not looking really looking into it. Im sure its a much more complex situation than it may seem.
I think your theory sounds plausible, with trying to cover up the murder. The other thing I fould interesting is that the article said that the father may have tried to hack the children's heads off. Its hard to know why that was the case, but it could be that he thought it was more merciful to behead them than to let them burn to death, or maybe he was just violent. Could not say.

 

[Next]

No such thing. When you said that line, I could hear him clearly saying that, hear his tone of voice, see his facial expression. I actually mentioned it in the first sentence of my response because of how it struck me - that those were exactly the words I'm sure were resonating in his head, and that they were exactly the words I'm sure have been spoken at some point in time by a person about to do a similar thing.

Don't mean to drag this on unnecessarily...the fact...that it's based on extortion of the wrong resources, intentionally, to me, was just...Pathetic.

 

[the]

"I brought you into this world and I can take you out" ....comes to mind.

Bill Cosby /Jerry Seinfeld ala "Neuman."

 

[hush]

Don't mean to drag this on unnecessarily...the fact...that it's based on extortion of the wrong resources, intentionally, to me, was just...Pathetic.

Extortion of the wrong resources? Dragging what on unnecessarily?

Bill Cosby /Jerry Seinfeld ala "Neuman."

By golly, I think you're right.

 

[Vicarious]

Thanks for correcting me, I appreciate it. I hate to accuse someone of being a pedophile if they're not. Its hard to understand the scope of these case by reading one article and not looking really looking into it. Im sure its a much more complex situation than it may seem.
I think your theory sounds plausible, with trying to cover up the murder. The other thing I fould interesting is that the article said that the father may have tried to hack the children's heads off. Its hard to know why that was the case, but it could be that he thought it was more merciful to behead them than to let them burn to death, or maybe he was just violent. Could not say.

No worries ...who knows, he may have been a pedo, apparently his father was. I remember reading an article in People (bored while getting my car's oil changed ) about this guy, claiming his innocence and all that nonsense. That last part you mentioned, I don't even want to think about...it just makes me sick. What kind of sick human being burns their children to death, let alone behead them? Ugh!

 

[whytiger]

Not to mention that the 911 dispatcher was durr derp derp derp. Though through the scrutiny on how she handled the call, there is no way police would have been able to do anything.

RIP those poor kids.

It's just unbelievable. I think there must be very different policies in place in different parts of the country. When my son locked himself in the house and my wife called the police, they were there in 5 minutes. I was lucky enough to beat the fire department there (10 minutes) to unlock the door before they busted a window.