I forgive because humans are imperfect, and besides, I dislike the whole holding a grudge ordeal. When I forgive, I do forget as well, I start with a new slate. Call me naive, but I do believe that people can rectify, and sometimes by forgiving them, they can start anew as well. What they do past that is no longer of my concern.
Why do you forgive?
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“Invisible! What is best in life?”
“To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women.”
“That is good! That is good.”
honestly. normally there is no question of me forgiving someone and i do it automatically. but if i am driven over the edge, i cut that person out of my life completely, never speak to them or even look at them again, it's over. like if someone i cared about and trusted deliberately attacks me physically, bullies me, gaslights me, or anything like that, it is over, goodbye: "all is fair in love and war". inside, i forgive them, when i get over my rage; i wish the best for them, and regret how i handled things, although i never want them back. and what does my forgiveness matter after i glued them to a bomb and dropped them in the desert? i haven't experienced this for some time now and i like to think that i am over this time in my life. but i never know, i can't say for sure, it could happen again. i would just have to try and stay calm and manage things as well as i could. (which was usually what i thought i was doing at the time.)
I can let people back in, if they genuinely apologize for their neglectful or abusive behavior, but I will be wary, and on guard. I can forgive without someone apologizing, but they will not have earned my respect until they own up to their wrongs, and work on the behavior. This may sound haughty, but I expect no less of myself.
Your point is well noted. The point seems to be to release the negative emotions whenever the person comes to mind. I have learned to breathe deeply while doing this.
I'm rarely sure of this, but it seems that what drives me to a gridlock state of unforgiveness:
1. The offense is strong or frequent enough to cause great distress.
2. The current value of a given relationship is called into question, so that I am already on my way out of it.
Yeah, definitely take some time away from the offender, and you may never even cross paths with them, again, but if you hang on to the contempt thinking it will some how punish them, you are only fooling yourself. Most grudges I have carried for years left the other person puzzled as to why we ever stopped talking in the first place, and wanting to reconnect. They weren't sitting around hating me, and plotting my destruction. The only person wasting energy on those silent feuds was me. They never learned a lesson, because I never told them how they wronged me. Even after they were told, they had no memory of the things they said.
People are insensitive. They say stupid shit. Don't let it run you life.
WTF forgiveness. Fuuuuck that fucking shit! For me personally, everything a person does counts towards their standing with me. They're good to me, their standing goes up. They misbehave, and their standing goes down. Nothing really gets "erased" from history. If someone fucks up, they have to re-gain the ground that they lost, but the history is still there. If someone fucks up badly enough, they don't get a chance to re-gain any lost ground. This probably doesn't work for INFJs though. This is a very Fi based system.
Good point. It seems the more harmful ones are those who try to manipulate and control, in which case it is time to move on and not look back for a very long time. Moving on is hard for me when something seems to be going well, but it usually takes coming to a grand heap of emotional harm before snapping.
Yes, I agree. I have to take years off, then sometimes try again, just to see if we've matured enough to be able to coexist, then often have to sever contact again, if they are still toxic to my emotional health.
Agreed on most points. (Of course, I have also tested INFP before, so Fi is probably on my radar somewhere.) A lot of people are for all intents and purposes permanently relegated to the not-so-polite, agree-to-disagree category. What you may be talking more about is reconciliation, which can be a very pointless exercise. Forgiveness is much more beneficial. It means I can build the wall of separation without continuing to boil in pain.
Are you okay with them judging you by the same standards?? For messing up? For being who you are? Misunderstanding, miscommunicating? We're all fallible. I want a second chance.
Same wavelength on this one. Usually I am able to coexist with an objectionable acquaintance or roommate (or even a friend - ironic, isn't it?). But there are some cases where the behavior are of a qualitatively more annoying level, such that I can't even coexist with them in the same house or group. (Ironically one such case is with my otherwise perfectly unobjectionable ISTJ roommate. The vibes that I get from his reclusive self-hatred and fussiness is simply of a higher order of incompatible annoyance. Sometimes I'd rather endure actual insults or someone actively ignoring me.)
Yes. The solution is severing contact and returning years later. Perhaps that is the only way that, if it was an abrupt severing, I can bring true closure to my mind by deciding to accept limited forms of reconnection in the future.
Oh. I see. I think your meaning of 'forgiveness' isn't what I thought it was. If someone does something shitty, my objective side just takes that "as is". Maybe they live by a different set of values. Maybe they gave in to temptation and made selfish decisions. That just "is". Some humans have different values. Sometimes humans behave badly for whatever reason. How I react depends on how badly their behavior violates my expectations.
I consider my feelings of anger and hurt as somewhat separate from all that. It's just a process I need to go through. Long-term wise, I go with "objectivity" though, as far as what I think about the person, and what I'm going to do with them. I try to be as "fair" as I can.
Yes, because I judge myself by the same standards. We would be in agreement.
My judgments are mostly focused on intent. So if there is a misunderstanding, I would not hold anything against the person.
Granted.
Perhaps this objective fairness is what gives INTJs more friends in the long run than us.