Why are we so apathetic?

[Eventhorizon]

http://downtrend.com/71superb/black...em-in-a-movie-theater?utm_source=Outbrain_C15

Why are we so apathetic to events like this? Hardly made the news.

 

[CogentPursuit]

The problems I see are still the unforeseen consequences of what you are proposing.







I completely disagree with the tactic and am still unsure of your motive other than maybe “it seemed like a good idea at the time” type mentality.
So instead of working to fix our society so that people are educated and can maybe make more informed decisions about their life…the state will make that for them?
I’m about as pro-choice as you can get being a dude, but this eliminates the choice part and criminalizes people for being impoverished.
So no...you don’t get my vote.

You see the unforseable? What does that mean? Is that "My imagination is going wild because I fear what could happen!"

People like you are proof that the system would have to be very reasonable, merciful, and fair or the system would be eliminated very quickly. As irritating as your liberal paranioa can be it is essential to maintaining balance in the system to offset those who would utilize the system toward a horrible end. It is much more likely that this system would never be considered as an acceptable practice by common law than for it to be abused. At least in the US and Candada. I wish all would strive for its use in a reasonable manner than falling prey to fear or greed but then it would unreasonable for me to think a everyone would just suddenly change and accept my reason as valid and theirs as invalid.

 

[CogentPursuit]

The problems I see are still the unforeseen consequences of what you are proposing.







I completely disagree with the tactic and am still unsure of your motive other than maybe “it seemed like a good idea at the time” type mentality.
So instead of working to fix our society so that people are educated and can maybe make more informed decisions about their life…the state will make that for them?
I’m about as pro-choice as you can get being a dude, but this eliminates the choice part and criminalizes people for being impoverished.
So no...you don’t get my vote.

People already have access to information and knowlege and still make the wrong desicions. They need incentive and enforcement. One without the other is not as effective. You can even do advertisements like they do for cigarettes and pull at their heartstrings by showing them the worst you can come up with and try to make them change through such brain washing influences but you still need to make laws in order to move things in the right direction.

 

[Skarekrow]

Re read...I never said that you can see both sides. Only that you recognize there is more than one side. I wrote that you only ever address one side of the issue. As far as I cant tell you either dont know wbat the otherside is or simply ignore it.

You see, that’s the thing…there are two sides and then there are not man.
Of course people will always have ideological differences…things that clash with their particular set of morals or religious teachings, etc. I mean, look at how many same-deity religions are either at odds with one another or are outright killing each other.
I see the other side…my own Father was a staunch Republican…talked shit about hippies, blacks, and mexicans from time to time…he and I were oftentimes on opposite political spectrums. He was a Vietnam vet though he was never proud of it like some…he was proud when I became a Coastguardsman…we both served our country because we love it and care about it.
And I know you and some seem to think that I am some crazy fucking liberal who has his horse-blinders on…but I grew up in a very Conservative family, was raised Mormon even like good ol Mitt Romney! There are incredibly racist parts of Bakersfield where I grew up, and growing up I knew some incredibly racist fuckers, skinheads, etc.
I’ve seen more sides of many of these issues than you may think.
Stop making assumptions about who I am and how I process information based on experiences in my life you are ignorant to.

Making the best choice you can is a big part. I am simply unwilling to waste time on action that will not work. To so nothing other than to ahow intent but fail anyway is a waste of time. In the end this is the foundation of what I am saying.
Regarding police and black people. Why address over the top force when it comes to black people alone? Why not address aggressive force by the police for all of the population? Its not that black people are being targeted. ..maybe in some cases but its police aggression as a whole that needs to be addressed. Correct that and you correct the other as well. No more source to branch off.

So what exactly are you doing then that is working? Or is promoting something that is working at the very least?
I have addressed the aggressiveness of the police-force as a whole so many times in so many places on this forum.
The factual statistical data shows that they are over-all more aggressive and likely to fuck with minorities…so it is an issue into itself.
I’m all for police cameras, just so long as they can’t switch them off or cover them…how hard is is to stick your gum on the lens?
Then we must hold them accountable…they want to be more aggressive then we the people must be more aggressive making sure they aren’t abusing the powers given them. Then they must be prosecuted.

 

[Skarekrow]

Re read...I never said that you can see both sides. Only that you recognize there is more than one side. I wrote that you only ever address one side of the issue. As far as I cant tell you either dont know wbat the otherside is or simply ignore it.

http://downtrend.com/71superb/black...em-in-a-movie-theater?utm_source=Outbrain_C15

Why are we so apathetic to events like this? Hardly made the news.

I can dig up stories like that from both sides on the internet all fucking day long….
Your point?

 

[Skarekrow]

You see the unforseable? What does that mean? Is that "My imagination is going wild because I fear what could happen!"

People like you are proof that the system would have to be very reasonable, merciful, and fair or the system would be eliminated very quickly. As irritating as your liberal paranioa can be it is essential to maintaining balance in the system to offset those who would utilize the system toward a horrible end. It is much more likely that this system would never be considered as an acceptable practice by common law than for it to be abused. At least in the US and Candada. I wish all would strive for its use in a reasonable manner than falling prey to fear or greed but then it would unreasonable for me to think a everyone would just suddenly change and accept my reason as valid and theirs as invalid.

Firstly, don’t put words in my mouth.
It’s a bullshit way of trying to win your point…as is resorting to saying things inferring I’m crazy like - "liberal paranoia”.
Like I’m some crazy fuck.
And trust me, you have become just as irritating…
Sorry that I don’t agree with your nazi-minded bullshit.

People already have access to information and knowlege and still make the wrong desicions. They need incentive and enforcement. One without the other is not as effective. You can even do advertisements like they do for cigarettes and pull at their heartstrings by showing them the worst you can come up with and try to make them change through such brain washing influences but you still need to make laws in order to move things in the right direction.

Who is going to enforce all this new child-based system you have imagined?
CPS? They do such a fucking great job right now as is…I have never heard of any children molested or beaten in any foster homes they have been places into.
So you completely ignore just a few of the many statistics I put up, of counties that have tried to implement such a plan and the fucked up results they got…has human nature changed so much that we could pull it off?
I laugh.

 

[CogentPursuit]

Firstly, don’t put words in my mouth.
It’s a bullshit way of trying to win your point…as is resorting to saying things inferring I’m crazy like - "liberal paranoia”.
Like I’m some crazy fuck.
And trust me, you have become just as irritating…
Sorry that I don’t agree with your nazi-minded bullshit.

I am not irritated. Perhaps I expected this eventuality. Think of how often you run into someone like me and consider how often I run into someone like you. I am very lonely person when it comes to sharing my thoughts.

I shouldn't have used the word paranoia because it comes attached with so many other projections and ideas that are not relevant to what I was trying to get across. There is a thing I am trying to describe with this word... it is people making decisions based on fear of the unknown but without much evidence to support the the strength of their fears. In more obvious cases it is the idea that because something can be abused in some way it will be abused. Little faith is put into the structures and people that protect them even though it is obvious that these structures are far more trustworthy than the systems you find in third-world countries. We should strive for ideals but ideals are perfection and perfection is impossible. We must look for its full potential but be understanding that it is impossible to obtain. It is easy to judge someone for failure but it is hard to provide a solution.

Where you sit in this in comparison to our discussion I cannot be certain but it is good to be aware of our fears and ask ourselves if it is legitimized or is it simply fear of exploring new territory.

They do such a fucking great job right now as is…I have never heard of any children molested or beaten in any foster homes they have been places into.

Would we be better without CPS? Their power is limited by people, parents, who fear them and by people who believe it is their right to do as they please with their children, such is a democracy/republic. I don't think there is a system without it's faults. Foster abuse is less common than abuse in the original home.

Regardless there is a huge waiting list for the adoption of babies. I don't see a need for CPS. There are a lot of people who cannot have children but would make really good parents and have spent a lot of money and time in the adoption process to get a child. Issues finding adoptions generally occur with the older children who enter foster care at a later age.

So you completely ignore just a few of the many statistics I put up, of counties that have tried to implement such a plan and the fucked up results they got…has human nature changed so much that we could pull it off?
I laugh.

I wouldn't support it in every country. There are large differences between societies and there is a lot that has changed in the past 50 years. Just consider the equal rights movement from the past to now and this is only one example of how different we are.

 

[Skarekrow]

I am not irritated. Perhaps I expected this eventuality. Think of how often you run into someone like me and consider how often I run into someone like you. I am very lonely person when it comes to sharing my thoughts.

You just said you that I was “irritating”. Are we having like a huge misunderstanding in communication here or what?

I shouldn't have used the word paranoia because it comes attached with so many other projections and ideas that are not relevant to what I was trying to get across. There is a thing I am trying to describe with this word... it is people making decisions based on fear of the unknown but without much evidence to support the the strength of their fears. In more obvious cases it is the idea that because something can be abused in some way it will be abused.

I understand what you are saying, however, when I then present evidence based on the programs mankind has run and participated in…and yes, it is pretty cruel and inhumane evidence…then you say I’m a leftist and make me into some loony-tune.
If any such program were EVER put in place there would have to be some very strong language making it VOLUNTARY and incentivized with no previously existing illegalities added onto.

Little faith is put into the structures and people that protect them even though it is obvious that these structures are far more trustworthy than the systems you find in third-world countries. We should strive for ideals but ideals are perfection and perfection is impossible. We must look for its full potential but be understanding that it is impossible to obtain. It is easy to judge someone for failure but it is hard to provide a solution.

Where you sit in this in comparison to our discussion I cannot be certain but it is good to be aware of our fears and ask ourselves if it is legitimized or is it simply fear of exploring new territory.

I am pretty familiar with exploring “new territory” if you have ever read my “Merkabah” thread, it is pretty fringy at times and I usually try to discuss the points of that existing. Like I have told EV above…I am pretty familiar both from being raised how I was, to the things I have done and seen.
I have served my country…please enough with the liberal name calling and I’ll quit calling you a “nazi”.

Would we be better without CPS? Their power is limited by people, parents, who fear them and by people who believe it is their right to do as they please with their children, such is a democracy/republic. I don't think there is a system without it's faults. Foster abuse is less common than abuse in the original home.

Regardless there is a huge waiting list for the adoption of babies. I don't see a need for CPS. There are a lot of people who cannot have children but would make really good parents and have spent a lot of money and time in the adoption process to get a child. Issues finding adoptions generally occur with the older children who enter foster care at a later age.

I wouldn't support it in every country. There are large differences between societies and there is a lot that has changed in the past 50 years. Just consider the equal rights movement from the past to now and this is only one example of how different we are.

And yet, the very political movement in this country to make abortion in any case illegal are the very one’s who should be out adopting all these children as they so vehemently agreed that the Smith girl carry her baby to term.
Where are they?
They are the very same one’s who fight to then cut food stamps and early education for those same kids, enforcing the cycle of poverty and ignorance.

 

[the]

Where are these poor kids coming from?

 

[CogentPursuit]

You just said you that I was “irritating”. Are we having like a huge misunderstanding in communication here or what?

I said liberal paranoia is irritating. A person can do something periodically that I find irritating, well everyone does that eventually, but that does not mean they are irritating people.
Actually I rather enjoy your comments for the most part.

I understand what you are saying, however, when I then present evidence based on the programs mankind has run and participated in…and yes, it is pretty cruel and inhumane evidence…then you say I’m a leftist and make me into some loony-tune.
If any such program were EVER put in place there would have to be some very strong language making it VOLUNTARY and incentivized with no previously existing illegalities added onto.

It was never my intention to indicate that ‘you are Liberal and that anything you have to show me for evidence is Liberal looneiness and just crazy business.’
From what I could find from your links it was mostly out of country and in governmental systems different from our own. There was an example you mentioned of some cultist movement in the United States for sterilization but I did not think that would play out the same under a state government who is also regulated by the Federal government. I was picturing this more in the US, Canada, and the like. I hope I didn’t miss any US examples in there…. The cruelty of the evidence isn’t necessarily indication of the likelihood it happening in the US under common law. Many of these things would be unacceptable under the common law and I am certain the majority of the voting populace would support that, minus the fringe. I think we can agree, it seems, that it is possible to do and would be beneficial, but only under strict guidelines that have grave consequences for those who abuse the system, and show little regard or compassion for those who are affected by the system.

I am pretty familiar with exploring “new territory” if you have ever read my “Merkabah” thread, it is pretty fringy at times and I usually try to discuss the points of that existing. Like I have told EV above…I am pretty familiar both from being raised how I was, to the things I have done and seen.

I will have to read that. I avoided it, I think, due to the length of the replies in which I have to catch up in order to know what is going on.

I have served my country…please enough with the liberal name calling and I’ll quit calling you a “nazi”.

I used liberal not Liberal, indicating a high prioritized attachment to an ideal, liberty/liberalism, not an association with a group, Liberal. I am not aware of your associations with various political groups and it isn’t necessary to tell me. I only noticed that you prefer a more limited government than I would prefer. But if your dislike of the word is enough to establish negative feelings when a comparison is made to you then I can certainly avoid such comparisons. Your labeling of Nazi does is not upsetting to me but it would be appropriate to also avoid such comparisons so that we both can be very reasonable 'deliberators' in all matters including good discussion and debate.

And yet, the very political movement in this country to make abortion in any case illegal are the very one’s who should be out adopting all these children as they so vehemently agreed that the Smith girl carry her baby to term.
Where are they?
They are the very same one’s who fight to then cut food stamps and early education for those same kids, enforcing the cycle of poverty and ignorance.

I am aware of them being an issue to the success of this system I am proposing. They might even support it but they have to potential to corrupt it. I think if the system is initialized with the proper safeguards then it wouldn't be an issue. Such ignorance is decreasing with every passing year. I can only hope that eventually they will be less of a burden on society. I think a lot has to do with so much focus on their own moral beliefs that they do not focus on the eventual outcomes. Some simply do not care that they are burdening the poor as they see them as a sub-human.

Well your original ‘question’ was in regard to my inhumanity not theirs. You felt my position was inhumane. I can agree with idea that theirs is but I do not feel that I am lacking in compassion, although I may be a bit unconventional.

 

[Skarekrow]

I said liberal paranoia is irritating. A person can do something periodically that I find irritating, well everyone does that eventually, but that does not mean they are irritating people.
Actually I rather enjoy your comments for the most part.


It was never my intention to indicate that ‘you are Liberal and that anything you have to show me for evidence is Liberal looneiness and just crazy business.’
From what I could find from your links it was mostly out of country and in governmental systems different from our own. There was an example you mentioned of some cultist movement in the United States for sterilization but I did not think that would play out the same under a state government who is also regulated by the Federal government. I was picturing this more in the US, Canada, and the like. I hope I didn’t miss any US examples in there…. The cruelty of the evidence isn’t necessarily indication of the likelihood it happening in the US under common law. Many of these things would be unacceptable under the common law and I am certain the majority of the voting populace would support that, minus the fringe. I think we can agree, it seems, that it is possible to do and would be beneficial, but only under strict guidelines that have grave consequences for those who abuse the system, and show little regard or compassion for those who are affected by the system.


I will have to read that. I avoided it, I think, due to the length of the replies in which I have to catch up in order to know what is going on.

I used liberal not Liberal, indicating a high prioritized attachment to an ideal, liberty/liberalism, not an association with a group, Liberal. I am not aware of your associations with various political groups and it isn’t necessary to tell me. I only noticed that you prefer a more limited government than I would prefer. But if your dislike of the word is enough to establish negative feelings when a comparison is made to you then I can certainly avoid such comparisons. Your labeling of Nazi does is not upsetting to me but it would be appropriate to also avoid such comparisons so that we both can be very reasonable 'deliberators' in all matters including good discussion and debate.


I am aware of them being an issue to the success of this system I am proposing. They might even support it but they have to potential to corrupt it. I think if the system is initialized with the proper safeguards then it wouldn't be an issue. Such ignorance is decreasing with every passing year. I can only hope that eventually they will be less of a burden on society. I think a lot has to do with so much focus on their own moral beliefs that they do not focus on the eventual outcomes. Some simply do not care that they are burdening the poor as they see them as a sub-human.

Well your original ‘question’ was in regard to my inhumanity not theirs. You felt my position was inhumane. I can agree with idea that theirs is but I do not feel that I am lacking in compassion, although I may be a bit unconventional.

Sorry if any of my posts were a bit harsh at times…I get passionate about certain things.
I will write you a proper response when I’m in the right frame of mind.
Thanks.

 

[Skarekrow]