What would you do if you weren't afraid? | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

What would you do if you weren't afraid?

To incur a physical ailment and use this to be able transform your inner self; a beautiful and empowering message!

Truly. I will be spending some time considering how having the luxury to choose to camouflage in a pretense of normalcy can be a hidden crutch and how having that choice taken away could force a facing of fear and from that, growth.

Anica, I wish you best with your new relationship. I suspect you will rise to the challenge.
 
Truly. I will be spending some time considering how having the luxury to choose to camouflage in a pretense of normalcy can be a hidden crutch and how having that choice taken away could force a facing of fear and from that, growth.

Anica, I wish you best with your new relationship. I suspect you will rise to the challenge.

Having the luxury to choose, in itself, could allow one to face fear just enough to sneer at it a bit here and there. If we are indeed different, why strive for normalcy or even the pretense of it? We are each of us special in our own ways, salting the meal fit to be served to kings. I would indeed fear changing from that which I have become, but to become is to grow. That statement challenged my thinking when I should have just felt it and moved along maybe. It can be difficult overcoming a crutch we have become accustomed to. The need for acceptance can be a need for self-edification; the need to be oneself, self-gratification.
 
I fear the judgment for being "different". I accept the dictate for normalcy because so far I have valued the sense of acceptance more than I have valued my fullest self-expression. I tend to express, but in segments. I find various people who will accept different pieces of me, and so can experience fully expressing, but in a fragmented fashion. I think the older I get the more rebellious I am getting about submitting to other's judgments of acceptability. Hopefully someday I'll be strong enough to say "this is me" in totality and not wither at the rejection of that presentation.

I feel fear of judgement for being different as well.

But why should I? First of all, how much of my personal value comes from those who would discredit me? How much am I allowing them to determine my life? Second, why should I be afraid to be different? Why should I be ashamed of myself just because someone doesn't get it? Why should the limited creativity and understanding of a stagnant mind limit my life? I need to reflect now. :) Thanks!

Truly. I will be spending some time considering how having the luxury to choose to camouflage in a pretense of normalcy can be a hidden crutch and how having that choice taken away could force a facing of fear and from that, growth.

Bah! Normalcy is overrated! Have you actually considered what being normal would mean? Boooorrring! I'm glad I'm not normal! :D

Having the luxury to choose, in itself, could allow one to face fear just enough to sneer at it a bit here and there. If we are indeed different, why strive for normalcy or even the pretense of it? We are each of us special in our own ways, salting the meal fit to be served to kings. I would indeed fear changing from that which I have become, but to become is to grow. That statement challenged my thinking when I should have just felt it and moved along maybe. It can be difficult overcoming a crutch we have become accustomed to. The need for acceptance can be a need for self-edification; the need to be oneself, self-gratification.

Exactly! We can't all be the same (see 'boring', above). And just because some people never grew past the childish stage of judging because of perceived differences, it doesn't mean I can't grow to be as loving, gracious, weird, and fun as I can be!

Feeling inspired, I post this inspirational picture from XKCD:

 
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If I weren't afraid, I would have asked that guy earlier today if he wanted a lift somewhere. I was driving along a fairly empty road and noticed a guy up ahead. I have no idea why, but my heart absolutely went out to him. He seemd to be an older guy dressed a bit shabbily. The weather was nice enough, but I really wanted to stop and ask him if he wanted a ride. He was on the same side of the road, going the same way. It would have been really easy. But I hesitated. And drove past. And now I regret it. Who was he? Where was he going? Why did my heart suddenly leap out like that? Why did I hesitate? What do I fear? :(
 

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I feel fear of judgement for being different as well.

But why should I? First of all, how much of my personal value comes from those who would discredit me? How much am I allowing them to determine my life? Second, why should I be afraid to be different? Why should I be ashamed of myself just because someone doesn't get it? Why should the limited creativity and understanding of a stagnant mind limit my life? I need to reflect now. :) Thanks!

I received comfort from these questions being asked. They echo questions I've asked myself along the way. I sense these are primarily rhetorical questions, but I'd still like to answer them to work through some of my own experience. If this takes things too far off the track of the thread, I am open to being moderated.

First of all, how much of my personal value comes from those who would discredit me?
For me, much of my sense of personal value comes from those who would discredit me. I could say too much of my sense of value originates there, but then I consider value as generally determined by external evaluation as to the worth placed on something. So in a way it is not odd I would take into serious consideration the value others communicate placing on my contributions in the world. The chief trouble I see here is that I tend to be very pessimistic in my interpretation of the communicated value and may miss or ignore signals that my contributions are highly valued.

How much am I allowing them to determine my life?
I think I tend to allow others judgments or potential judgments of me to have a high degree of direction over my life. I choose my response to these winds and so I still commandeer my ship, but the direction I travel does show strong influence of choosing to travel with those winds instead of choosing to face possibly treacherous storms I fear could sink me. I'm aware though this tactic may not get me to the destination I would otherwise choose.

Second, why should I be afraid to be different?

I am afraid of being different because I'm afraid the storms I would have to weather if I crossed the wind stream of normal would be enough to sink me. I fear this I think because thus far my ship has tended to shudder under blustery winds. I fear it's not strong enough to sustain a storm.

Why should I be ashamed of myself just because someone doesn't get it?

I would only feel ashamed of myself for being different if I chose to value myself as less or wrong because of that difference. I have made that valuation and so have experienced shame. I accept that emotion, but in considering this question, I recognize this is where my energies in trying to fortify my ship are focused. I've worked to build different relationships within which to understand my own value, so I can reach different conclusions of self-valuation.

Why should the limited creativity and understanding of a stagnant mind limit my life?
On the final question, I have difficulty considering it in those terms. I have a twisted sort of "do unto others" mentality that is reluctant to engage in minimizing the value of others for fear it will only accentuate in my mind all the ways in which I could be judged insufficient.

Bah! Normalcy is overrated! Have you actually considered what being normal would mean? Boooorrring! I'm glad I'm not normal! :D

I'm bored much of my life.

Exactly! We can't all be the same (see 'boring', above). And just because some people never grew past the childish stage of judging because of perceived differences, it doesn't mean I can't grow to be as loving, gracious, weird, and fun as I can be!

I value what you describe desiring to grow toward.

I am admittedly proud of my experience of self when alone or in company that is compatible with my particular bent. So far I have just tried to maximize the situations in which I can feel proud of myself, but eventually I'm hoping I'll get to the place where I'm strong enough to feel proud of that expression even in hostile territory without feeling any need to be hostile in return.
 
Having the luxury to choose, in itself, could allow one to face fear just enough to sneer at it a bit here and there. If we are indeed different, why strive for normalcy or even the pretense of it?

That's the thing, in my pretense I'm never really successful. I'm still called out for a muted and dulled version of "different". I'm too quiet or I stumble over my words or I'm too agreeable. So I'm different and called on it no matter which I choose, but somehow it feels less threatening to be different for something I know is a mask than for my true differences.

The need for acceptance can be a need for self-edification; the need to be oneself, self-gratification.

This statement felt so true to me. I was sharing some of this conversation at the supper table tonight and in explaining to my son what self-edification was and how it can possibly be hollow, a description of a door on a movie set that looks real and strong, but is really very flimsy and is easy for the actor to kick in was offered to help explain. I couldn't help but consider how true that description is about my edifice of normalcy.
 
Tovlo,,,

Think about this?

Mis estimados:
Do not lose heart. We were made for these times.
I have heard from so many recently who are deeply and properly bewildered. They are concerned about the state of affairs in our world right now. It is true, one has to have strong cojones and ovarios to withstand much of what passes for "good" in our culture today. Abject disregard of what the soul finds most precious and irreplaceable and the corruption of principled ideals have become, in some large societal arenas, "the new normal," the grotesquerie of the week. It is hard to say which one of the current egregious matters has rocked people's worlds and beliefs more. Ours is a time of almost daily jaw-dropping astonishment and often righteous rage over the latest degradations of what matters most to civilized, visionary people.

...You are right in your assessments. The lustre and hubris some have aspired to while endorsing acts so heinous against children, elders, everyday people, the poor, the unguarded, the helpless, is breathtaking. Yet ... I urge you, ask you, gentle you, to please not spend your spirit dry by bewailing these difficult times. Especially do not lose hope. Most particularly because, the fact is – we were made for these times. Yes. For years, we have been learning, practicing, been in training for and just waiting to meet on this exact plain of engagement. I cannot tell you often enough that we are definitely the leaders we have been waiting for, and that we have been raised since childhood for this time precisely.

...I grew up on the Great Lakes and recognize a seaworthy vessel when I see one. Regarding awakened souls, there have never been more able crafts in the waters than there are right now across the world. And they are fully provisioned and able to signal one another as never before in the history of humankind. I would like to take your hands for a moment and assure you that you are built well for these times. Despite your stints of doubt, your frustrations in arighting all that needs change right now, or even feeling you have lost the map entirely, you are not without resource, you are not alone. Look out over the prow; there are millions of boats of righteous souls on the waters with you. In your deepest bones, you have always known this is so. Even though your veneers may shiver from every wave in this stormy roil, I assure you that the long timbers composing your prow and rudder come from a greater forest. That long-grained lumber is known to withstand storms, to hold together, to hold its own, and to advance, regardless.

...We have been in training for a dark time such as this, since the day we assented to come to Earth. For many decades, worldwide, souls just like us have been felled and left for dead in so many ways over and over Рbrought down by naivet̩, by lack of love, by suddenly realizing one deadly thing or another, by not realizing something else soon enough, by being ambushed and assaulted by various cultural and personal shocks in the extreme. We have a history of being gutted, and yet remember this especially ... we have also, of necessity, perfected the knack of resurrection. Over and over again we have been the living proof that that which has been exiled, lost, or foundered Рcan be restored to life again. This is as true and sturdy a prognosis for the destroyed worlds around us as it was for our own once mortally wounded selves.

...Though we are not invulnerable, our risibility supports us to laugh in the face of cynics who say "fat chance," and "management before mercy," and other evidences of complete absence of soul sense. This, and our having been to Hell and back on at least one momentous occasion, makes us seasoned vessels for certain. Even if you do not feel that you are, you are. Even if your puny little ego wants to contest the enormity of your soul, that smaller self can never for long subordinate the larger Self. In matters of death and rebirth, you have surpassed the benchmarks many times. Believe the evidence of any one of your past testings and trials. Here it is: Are you still standing? The answer is, Yes! (And no adverbs like "barely" are allowed here). If you are still standing, ragged flags or no, you are able. Thus, you have passed the bar. And even raised it. You are seaworthy.

...In any dark time, there is a tendency to veer toward fainting over how much is wrong or unmended in the world. Do not focus on that. Do not make yourself ill with overwhelm. There is a tendency too to fall into being weakened by perseverating on what is outside your reach, by what cannot yet be. Do not focus there. That is spending the wind without raising the sails. We are needed, that is all we can know. And though we meet resistance, we more so will meet great souls who will hail us, love us and guide us, and we will know them when they appear. Didn't you say you were a believer? Didn't you say you pledged to listen to a voice greater? Didn't you ask for grace? Don't you remember that to be in grace means to submit to the voice greater? You have all the resource you need to ride any wave, to surface from any trough.

...In the language of aviators and sailors, ours is to sail forward now, all balls out. Understand the paradox: If you study the physics of a waterspout, you will see that the outer vortex whirls far more quickly than the inner one. To calm the storm means to quiet the outer layer, to cause it, by whatever countervailing means, to swirl much less, to more evenly match the velocity of the inner, far less volatile core – till whatever has been lifted into such a vicious funnel falls back to Earth, lays down, is peaceable again. One of the most important steps you can take to help calm the storm is to not allow yourself to be taken in a flurry of overwrought emotion or despair – thereby accidentally contributing to the swale and the swirl. Ours is not the task of fixing the entire world all at once, but of stretching out to mend the part of the world that is within our reach. Any small, calm thing that one soul can do to help another soul, to assist some portion of this poor suffering world, will help immensely. It is not given to us to know which acts or by whom, will cause the critical mass to tip toward an enduring good. What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts – adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take "everyone on Earth" to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.

...One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires ... causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others, both – are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity. Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.

...There will always be times in the midst of "success right around the corner, but as yet still unseen" when you feel discouraged. I too have felt despair many times in my life, but I do not keep a chair for it; I will not entertain it. It is not allowed to eat from my plate. The reason is this: In my uttermost bones I know something, as do you. It is that there can be no despair when you remember why you came to Earth, who you serve, and who sent you here. The good words we say and the good deeds we do are not ours: They are the words and deeds of the One who brought us here. In that spirit, I hope you will write this on your wall: When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe, there can be no doubt. But ... that is not what great ships are built for.

...This comes with much love and prayer that you remember who you came from, and why you came to this beautiful, needful Earth,

Clarissa Pinkola Estés, Ph.D.
 
If I weren't afraid, I would have asked that guy earlier today if he wanted a lift somewhere. I was driving along a fairly empty road and noticed a guy up ahead. I have no idea why, but my heart absolutely went out to him. He seemd to be an older guy dressed a bit shabbily. The weather was nice enough, but I really wanted to stop and ask him if he wanted a ride. He was on the same side of the road, going the same way. It would have been really easy. But I hesitated. And drove past. And now I regret it. Who was he? Where was he going? Why did my heart suddenly leap out like that? Why did I hesitate? What do I fear? :(

I'm on a posting roll, so I'm going to hit this one before I sneak out.

I'm guessing you feared being taken, put in a pit, and then being tortured until finally you were chopped up bit by tiny little bit to be used as various furniture coverings.

More seriously, I think those fears are well-founded. Sometimes the man might be a murderer. Sometimes he might be a harmless someone who could benefit from something you have to offer. I don't trust logic and sensible, practical cautions. I trust intuition.

My guess is that years of being pelted with logic and sensible, practical cautions overwhelmed your intuition in that moment and you weren't sure what to do. Moment passed, opportunity passed.

It happens to me all the time. Part of it is that I can't think fast enough in the moment to overcome all that training and get to the intuition in time to act.

I think the more I trust the intuition though the more it will respond more quickly than the training and I'll know whether I should stop or not in time.

OK, too much time here and I'm being nagged to go watch Mystic River. See ya, folks!
 
The world is changing and the morals are degenerating. Stopping to help people is not safe any longer; it is a risk that could cost one their life. There are reasons the world is getting worse and worse. Fear has nothing to do with it; it is common sense.
After WWII, it was nothing to stop and help someone. My Dad said anyone in a uniform was almost immediately picked up and sometimes folk would go out of their way to get them where they were going.
Nowadays, watching morality degenerate and crime grow, there is a reason you did not stop. Best you can do is look into your rearview mirror and say I'm sorry.
Preacher I know stopped to help a couple in the rain on an interstate one night and was hit in the head and robbed. He was left to die in the rain with his head bleading. Now he looks in the rear mirror as he passes people and says, "Lord, I'm sorry if that was you. Please forgive me" as he passes them by. If one wants to call it fear, it may be more fear of what the world has become and is becoming. Elements are being taken away that are leading to a different mindset. It is not worth your life....
There are ways to help people nowadays that we have had to change into ways that are much safer to use. It is best to not become a victim.
 
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Mayflow, I, too, am interested in tovlo's take on that. In her absence, though I feel her here in her spirit and will soon return to read these words, I would like to say my eyes were cleansed by the words of that almost last sentence; that of edification for the entire body of souls riding the waves of time in the vastness of our troubled seas.....and on my wall it shall surely go.....
"When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe there can be no doubt;
but, that is not what great ships are built for."
I thank you for those words, as they had tremendous effect on my soul.....all of those words.
I think both you and I will agree tovlo has no weakness or lack of prowess while sitting behind a keyboard typing her soul into gold.
 
tovlo, they were quasi-rhetorical questions. No moderating needed. ;)

I posted them to make me think, and make others think. It's amazing the degree to which we let others control our lives. We try to earn approval from others, forgetting what a futile endeavour this is. You will never please everyone, and I've learned this. But I need to be reminded of it. If I let me self-worth come from the opinions of others, then just the fact that I'm an INFJ means I can never be myself and appreciate myself, or I can spend my lifetime hating who I am. I can't let my self-worth come from others or I'll go crazy. That's why my self-worth must come from myself. As INFJ's, our pendulum swings towards the side of compassion and empathy for others, and not wanting to rock the boat. That's why I worded those questions strongly - so help us swing back to the middle again. It's unhealthy to let the expectations of others rule my life, and that's what I was trying to say.

tovlo, thanks for answering them and being courageous enough to open your heart here. I often feel the same way, but tip-toeing around on egg shells has only made me nervous and afraid. That doesn't help me help anyone else either. Yes, I've learned skills and habits that help me work better with others, but I'm not going to allow my life to be dictated by expectations or points of view that are alien to me. (Again, wording strongly to help swing the pendulum back to center. I'm not suggesting we totally abandon caring about others! We don't need to become INFJ villians! :lol: )

As for the dude I wanted to give a lift to, it wasn't anywhere desolate (about a 2min drive from my city's main street, just a more open area), and I don't think I was afraid for my safety. Growing up, my parents never picked up hitch-hikers, and they distilled that in me. I've only picked up a hitch-hiker once in my life, and that was in back-woods Quebec. He was a really cool guy too. :) I just let old habits and the expectations of others take over. I was afraid to go against what I'd been taught. But I really wanted to go with my heart on that one. :( Hesitation sucks.
 
Tovlo,,,

Think about this?



Clarissa Pinkola Estés, Ph.D.

Mayflow, I've just seen this now and do not have time to read it carefully yet, but I see who you have quoted and I am always touched and provoked to thought by her words and expression, so I expect I will be no less by this. Thank you.
 
Tovlo,,,

Think about this?



Clarissa Pinkola Estés, Ph.D.

Oh my dear God, how insightful you are. I know these are not your words, but how you knew to pull those words from somewhere and offer them in response, I do not know. I do thank you.
 
"When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe there can be no doubt;
but, that is not what great ships are built for."

My breath and tears and soul were captured by that line as well, jm.
 
tovlo, thanks for answering them and being courageous enough to open your heart here. I often feel the same way, but tip-toeing around on egg shells has only made me nervous and afraid. That doesn't help me help anyone else either. Yes, I've learned skills and habits that help me work better with others, but I'm not going to allow my life to be dictated by expectations or points of view that are alien to me. (Again, wording strongly to help swing the pendulum back to center. I'm not suggesting we totally abandon caring about others! We don't need to become INFJ villians! :lol: )

I'm glad. I wanted to discuss, but I didn't want to derail. Thanks for letting me speak and for speaking back.

Your motivations seem to spotlight that nature of compassion and empathy by trying to guide to a place where self can step to the front and not always defer to other. I value your thoughts and choices a great deal.

I just let old habits and the expectations of others take over. I was afraid to go against what I'd been taught. But I really wanted to go with my heart on that one. :( Hesitation sucks.

Hesitation sure does suck, especially when it's followed by a high dose of regret. I've felt that second-guessing before.

Every time I revisit your most recent "fear" post I can see the shape of a man (likely homeless) in my periphery vision out of my car window as I sat at a red light ignoring him because I didn't know what else I felt comfortable doing. I don't feel good about that choice, but on the other hand I accept it was the best I was capable of at that moment. I've thought about it since and I hope having behaved that way then, I've now got a better starting place from which to make a different choice next time.
 
I'm glad. I wanted to discuss, but I didn't want to derail. Thanks for letting me speak and for speaking back.

That's what this forum is here for, as far as I'm concerned. INFJ's like to discuss things on a deep level, and if that means "derailment" I welcome it. Have a look at the other threads. There's surprisingly few that don't go off topic. :D
 
I'd pursue her despite the obstacles.
 
Ah, but you have the wings of an angel....
 
Still rising above it all is harder then it looks, even for those who can fly. Maybe I need a strong breeze...