What Is Your Idol?

[Asa]

At this point in my life, I’d say these are things that I try not to idolize.

Yes, of course. (Especially at the age I'm guestimating you are.) I think this is the goal. I interpret this "test" as one where we are honest with ourselves about these four particular choices and build better lives with that awareness.

This exercise is making it clear why I made choices earlier in life. Being middle-aged, I have a lot of questions for myself and this answers some of them. There were times when following money, power, or fame would have benefitted me more, particularly because "enlightenment" is a privilege that we can only achieve when our lives lack major stress or survival needs.

Sweets are my biggest weakness.

Ohhh, hahahahaha! Relatable. I used to be a sugar fiend.

Also, sometimes when I self-reflect and scrutinize my motives about something I’ve done or said, I’ll discover that I’ve not acted out of love, as I intended. I find that I have unconsciously acted out of a desire for power, to some degree or another.

That is interesting! It's good you catch that about yourself. Power over what? The person? The situations?

 

[ErikAlberto]

It's good you catch that about yourself. Power over what? The person? The situations?

Well, let me answer it this way: I feel that if my wife and I have a disagreement on something and I engage in an argument simply because I want to be right, there is an underlying power motive, for me.

Over what? Well, to answer your question any more overtly feels inaccessible to me right now. The sense I have of there having been a secret and regrettable motive for power in things I have done or said, is more of an intuition, I’d say, rather than an intellectual understanding. I just know it to be true.

We all have a shadow. I’m certainly interested in cultivating greater awareness of mine.

Being middle-aged, I have a lot of questions for myself

Same here

 

[Asa]

We all have a shadow. I’m certainly interested in cultivating greater awareness of mine.

Cheers to that!

Well, let me answer it this way: I feel that if my wife and I have a disagreement on something and I engage in an argument simply because I want to be right, there is an underlying power motive, for me.

Ah, that makes sense. I think that is fairly normal.

 

[John K]

Well, let me answer it this way: I feel that if my wife and I have a disagreement on something and I engage in an argument simply because I want to be right, there is an underlying power motive, for me.

Being right power is an interesting journey for me. I used it to compensate for social problems as a child - it gave me a sense of self value amongst kids my own age when nothing else did. It’s hard to break that sort of habit because it became bound up to my self identity.

It was great fun looking back at how it played out with my kids. We have to be so careful how as adults we exercise power with them. It has its funny moments though. I used to grit my teeth and let them win at games like chess - until they got smart enough to start accusing me of letting them win . Second order power games are hilarious.

 

[InfernoMink]

Fame.
All my idiot life I have felt like I’m supposed to be an actor or some form of transformative being. As a boy, i rehearsed acceptance speeches as I won Oscars, Emmys, but no Tony’s, sorry, can’t dance or sing. Well, I shouldn’t say that fully, as I haven’t tried either but there’s a reason for that. lol.

Money will never be my idol.

Power can be useless, look at all the power Elon Musk has and yet, going to space is his main focus. I would prefer if he would focus on growing crop farming skyscrapers here on Earth.

Pleasure will never be my idol. Get one terminal disease and I feel for me that all pleasure would cease.

So, personally, fame would have to be my idol. But I also don’t feel like I want to be famous so people can love me, I’d like to be famous in order to bring attention to important things in life and causes. Like the first thing I would do if I became famous and liked, would be to visit children’s hospitals and literally have sleep-overs with them there. Hopefully, without a single person outside the hospital ever knowing. That’s my kind of idolizing, Gang.

 

[Anomalous]

If you had to give up the other three in order to obtain power, then it wouldn't be power.

We appear to have discovered capitalism.

 

[Reason]

If it meant autonomy then I would say power. Else I would just say pleasure if pleasure meant contentment.

 

[saint fushimi]

This question resonates with you all? None of these are important to me whatsoever. -- Unless you replace pleasure with passion, money with opportunity, fame with influence, and power with security. Someday I hope my philosophical ideas will reach the minds of other visionaries and I can influence humanity in some significant way. I enjoy pleasure as much as anyone else, but I enjoy richness of sensation and passion more than immoderation, which I tend to look down on. I don't care about money as an end whatsoever, but I see it as a source of opportunity and stability. I like fine things, art and travel and adventure, and i need money for that. Persian rugs ain't free. I also see money as safety, and I have severe problems with feeling safe and stable. But I can't comprehend being so simple minded to want money for money sake. I'm a 4w3, so desiring fame is unavoidable, though I do not want to be personally known. I want my work to reach notoriety, and people to admire and envy who I am, but day-to-day, I want to be left alone. Know my name, not my face. As for power, that falls flat. Influence in the world at large, ability to help shape the path of humanity and culture, etc... yes. But I have no interest in persuading or controlling anyone. If you want to listen, you can listen. Follow if you like, but I won't care unless you have something yourself to contribute. Idol is a very strange turn of phrase for this.

If you want to know who I admire(though I don't idolize anyone), look to Jung and Nietzsche. The greatest INFJs to ever exist. I don't want to be 'like' them, as I know I already am in the ways that matter to me, but they have more of value to say than anyone else I know. I don't tend to pay attention to specific people though-- moreso whatever ideas I come across. Taoist concepts have been very influential to my form of thinking as well.

 

[JoL]

None of these - they all let us down, in the end, on their own.

Peace is where my compass points. To have peace is god-like, but I've done no more than glimpse it .... yet there it is, always, deep down. It's just that all the noise drowns it out.

Haha yea ! I was going to say, have the freedom to choose anything other than those 4 things, would be my idol !

Peace is great, I was thinking of other things that has the peaceful quality as well, like comfort, or grounded, or warmth, or slow, well-being etc...

 

[Asa]

Excluding our elders, like John, those who are answering "none" are missing the point of the exercise. John is at a stage in his life where he can genuinely reply, "None."

This is not about what we actively embrace. It's about seeing hidden weaknesses and the opportunity to improve and grow toward a more fulfilling life. Most people in this thread don't actively seek out any of these things.

Your idol is something you need to grow away from, the opposite of fulfillment, the opposite of enlightenment, the opposite of god, ie "false idols".


The challenge is to pick the one that best relates to your weaknesses: Money, Pleasure, Fame, or Power.


If you can't figure out which one it is, start with which one you'd give up first. The one you're left with is your idol – the area where you need to work on yourself.

After you recognize this about self, you can grow past it and grow toward true fulfillment.

 

[John K]

John is at a stage in his life where he can genuinely reply, "None."

In truth, I can still fall captive to some of them. Money is an issue for pensioners at the moment because inflation can erode our income, even if we have some protection from it. Of course income anxiety in itself isn't an idol, but it focus attention on money, and it's not all that difficult to become engrossed in it.

 

[Matty]

What is your idol? Money, Pleasure, Fame, or Power?

If your idol isn't clear to you, figure it out by thinking about which one of these four you'd give up first. The last one you'd give up is your idol.

Care to expand on why this is your idol?

Has chasing after your idol made you happier, or not? Why?

My idol is detached independence.

It's a bit of a daily conscientious effort to keep the allure at bay, by staying connected and constructive within my community.

 

[aeon]

My idol is detached independence.

It's a bit of a daily conscientious effort to keep the allure at bay, by staying connected and constructive within my community.

Yet another one who missed the point by not working within the given context.

Yepperz,
Ian

 

[TheDeathOfYouAndMe]

Is the only Idol for me.

I have long held the belief that power, fame and fortune should remain in the toy-box where they belong. I keep things simple. Good wine, good company and light conversation with a healthy sprinkling of banter from the top shelf. I do know however, in my heart of hearts, power would absolutely corrupt me. I'd go full tilt Sauron. It's the humble life that keeps my digestion in tact, I find.

Cracking thread though. Goes well with my morning cup of tea.

 

[philostam]

Pleasure is obviously the meta choice here. Even if you choose money/power/fame, it's because it will bring you pleasure. If you define pleasure as just physical pleasure (food, sex etc.), then it goes to the absolute bottom of my hierarchy of idols.

Pleasure in enjoying art/conversations/learning...that's a different story.

Pleasure makes every activity whole. For example cooking is an activity with a specific goal in mind, but if you derive pleasure from it, it becomes whole, i.e it's not juts a movement from A to B anymore. You can do it for it's own sake.

The goal of education in a broader sense is to program people to enjoy good and virtuous activities. Very simple. All of this was explained by Aristotle millennia ago

 

[Asa]

In truth, I can still fall captive to some of them. Money is an issue for pensioners at the moment because inflation can erode our income, even if we have some protection from it. Of course income anxiety in itself isn't an idol, but it focus attention on money, and it's not all that difficult to become engrossed in it.

It's difficult to eliminate money concerns in a world where money = survival.
I was listening to a podcast the other day where they were discussing how the only people who can actively seek fulfillment are those who have their needs met.

My idol is detached independence.

It's a bit of a daily conscientious effort to keep the allure at bay, by staying connected and constructive within my community.

This makes sense about you. Striking a balance is crucial.

Is the only Idol for me.

I have long held the belief that power, fame and fortune should remain in the toy-box where they belong. I keep things simple. Good wine, good company and light conversation with a healthy sprinkling of banter from the top shelf. I do know however, in my heart of hearts, power would absolutely corrupt me. I'd go full tilt Sauron. It's the humble life that keeps my digestion in tact, I find.

Cracking thread though. Goes well with my morning cup of tea.

Thanks.
It's interesting that you know you would become Sauron so you have the wisdom to walk a humbler path, while others would focus on that path because they desire the opportunity to become Sauron. I think you chose well.

Pleasure is obviously the meta choice here. Even if you choose money/power/fame, it's because it will bring you pleasure. If you define pleasure as just physical pleasure (food, sex etc.), then it goes to the absolute bottom of my hierarchy of idols.

Pleasure in enjoying art/conversations/learning...that's a different story.

Pleasure makes every activity whole. For example cooking is an activity with a specific goal in mind, but if you derive pleasure from it, it becomes whole, i.e it's not juts a movement from A to B anymore. You can do it for it's own sake.

The goal of education in a broader sense is to program people to enjoy good and virtuous activities. Very simple. All of this was explained by Aristotle millennia ago

Good point. The question may be about what you find pleasure in. Some people find pleasure in wealth or fame.

 

[philostam]

Pleasure is a desired good, but it's not the highest good. Because highest good cannot be improved by adding something else, while pleasure is improved if it's combined with other virtues. Physical pleasure is inferior to sensual/intellectual pleasure. Physical pleasure is something that's common to all animals, while pleasures of the mind are something that only humans can develop.

 

[Matty]

Yet another one who missed the point by not working within the given context.

Yepperz,
Ian

INTJ architect here.

 

[philostam]

If you want to know who I admire(though I don't idolize anyone), look to Jung and Nietzsche. The greatest INFJs to ever exist. I don't want to be 'like' them, as I know I already am in the ways that matter to me, but they have more of value to say than anyone else I know. I don't tend to pay attention to specific people though-- moreso whatever ideas I come across. Taoist concepts have been very influential to my form of thinking as well.

You admire Nietzsche? He was lonely, unhappy, frustrated, sick, angry.

He was smart but did not live a good life at all. Unhappy people can think deeply, but not clearly.

 

[TheDeathOfYouAndMe]

@Asa

Have you ever watched the docudrama on Netflix ( Roman Empire )?

That unfortunately would be me in their shoes. I very much would be living an excessive and debauched life. Don't get me wrong, the people would be well looked after and the borders protected along with the poor being given chances to turn their lives around. But on a personal level, with that amount of power, I'd have a hard time getting out of the bedroom.

I know my own heart. The simple humble life with a focus on small tender acts of kindness to loved ones and strangers alike keeps the Tiger in the long grass.