What is a God? | INFJ Forum

What is a God?

Chessie

Community Member
Apr 5, 2010
508
198
0
MBTI
INfJ
There's an interesting question that doesn't get asked very often and that I find is extremely important for how rarely it is touched upon. People ask each other 'Do you believe in God?' or make broad sweeping statements about the intentions of God. On the opposite side, there are outright denials of the possibility of God either within a religious context or even in a more practical sense of comforting oneself and finding purpose for life.

It should be noted, I am not an agnostic and would be offended if someone called me agnostic. I am non-religious. This isn't to say I deny the existence of God or the possibility of a God. I choose not to worship such a being if it did exist. There IS a difference between atheist and non-religious. I make no assertion that God doesn't exist. I can't afford to.

The most important question a person can ask themselves before going after ideas like 'Worship' and 'belief' is 'What Is A God?'. There are a ton of obvious answers. God is the Creator. God created everything. God is the protector. God nurtures. God is the guardian of the afterlife. God is the giver of purpose.

From a purely anthropological standpoint, gods often act as a caricature of human traits. The pantheistic gods are great examples of this. Gods like Dionysus (who represents the part of a human being that wants to party like mad) or Zeus (the leader, whose incidentally a giant horn-ball) represent parts of mankind.

In the case of the Christian/Jewish/Muslim God (Yaweh, Jehovah, Allah), He is a logical conclusion of nearly every human impulse. A person (every person) has the desire to create. So God created everything from every blade of grass to every tree. A person has a desire for revenge so when slighted, God lays waste the world. A person has a desire for peace and to live, so there is an afterlife with absolute peace and joy. A person wants to see other people punished when they do wrong, so there's a Hell that every bad thing people do is punished in.

These traits are all traceable to our most basic impulses. Equally, to look at the idea of a God based just on the traits that human beings give it and say 'That doesn't exist' would be to miss a HUGE swath of the possible realities of a creator being.

Niel De'Grass Tyson is often fond of making a comparison. He says that chimpanzees share 99% of their genetic material with us. So what makes us different must be in that single percent. What makes us intelligent and artful and clever must be in those few billion strands of genetic information. A being that is maybe one genetic percent more intelligent than we might be so vastly superior that we'd be all but unable to communicate with them.

Would we call a being like that a 'god'? Possibly.

Now, a large part of gods involves the use of 'magic'. To define a god we must define what they do and how they do it. In people, we require an exploratory period between having an idea and actually making something happen. You say, "I need a ramp to get up to my house" and you look around for a bit, find a few two by fours, and set them on an incline and have yourself a ramp. As we get more technologically advanced, we slowly shorten the length of the exploratory period.

Starting off, we'd have to hone out a stone axe then cut down a tree, cut the branches off, chop at it for a few weeks and pray we managed to get it the right shape for what we need. These days, we've got a circular saw. We've shortened the period of time it takes us to accomplish something in our heads from a few days to an hour.

Magic is the direct realization of the will, outside of cause and effect and without the need for an exploratory period to see how cause and effect might achieve a desired outcome. You want the ramp there, you will it, and it becomes real and perfectly what you need. That's magic. That is also God. God is a being with no exploratory period between Will and realization of whatever it is he wants to do.

Now, lets look at this from another standpoint. If we are to see God as miraculous (which is to say, vast, unfathomable, and capable of immense creation) then we can look to things like the internet and say 'This is a god'. Of course, the Internet isn't a god. Not yet. It might be, for some of us, very nearly god-like but for anyone who knows it's operation it is explicable.

To make something worthy of worship it must be (in the minds of most) inexplicable. If you know how it works, there's no particular point in investing yourself emotionally in it outside of a feeling of proprietorship. You're certainly not going to look at a Jaguar XJ and say 'That's a god'. Yeah, it might be brilliant and fast...but you break it apart and you can explain the function of each part. By their very nature, a god cannot be explained in this fashion.

One might think from what I'm saying that defining a god would be impossible without also denying one's existence. Bare with me a bit longer.

If we are willing to put aside that God must be entirely inexplicable then we can begin to develop the idea that scientific understanding (the shortening of the period between observation and making use or having influence over some part of the world around you) and belief (taking comfort, security, and stability from the existence of something) are not necessarily opposites.

There is a significant movement to maintain ignorance of the world to make it seem more miraculous (and hence to make it seem as though God is manifesting more frequently in the lives of people each day). This is a purely self serving push coming primarily from those who stand to benefit from manipulating people into belief, rather than exploration.

We don't take comfort from an understanding of atomic physics (in general) because our understanding is imperfect. However, if you understand how a lightswitch is wired and when you flip it on there is light which keeps away burglars, you can take comfort in that. If you get electricity from nuclear power, you take a comfort (by extension) in the nuclear power. However, you aren't required to personally understand it to take comfort in it. Understanding IS possible though. If we start from the mindset that God can be understood, we can explore while also taking comfort in the benefits of having gods.

There are known health and emotional benefits to having positive (non-abusive) relationships with a god.

(to be continued. Tired kitty is tired. Give me your thoughts on what I've got so far!)
 
You always say the most interesting things. My brain is utterly fried right now, but I think you are absolutely spot on in saying belief and science need not oppose one another. Science is merely a tool to use to better understand the world and all of creation. There's nothing sinful in being able to do algebra. Those that promote ignorance should be slapped with a fish.
 
I like what you have so far. I am also a tired kitten. I should have been asleep 3 hours ago. :(

I believe people just by their nature inherently see the pattern: Creations must have creator(s). No one thinks things just pop out of the air. You see a skyscaper, you're going to ask who built it, or you know someone built it. Some people call whatever caused the world to exist god or gods. And they associate it with something familiar, like a mother who creates and nutures babies. And they give it human traits because they tie it to patterns they are familiar with.

All right, too tired to make coherent sentences. Good post once again Chessie! :)
 
Interesting question... :m083:

I'll need to have a very good and long think before writing my opinion on this thread. But I definitely will (that is, If I don't forget for some reason).
 
Erg...there's a second part to all of this that I've got to put together. I may just start a second thread and call it 'part 2'.
 
Erg...there's a second part to all of this that I've got to put together. I may just start a second thread and call it 'part 2'.

Please do, my brain needs a workout. :typing:
It will be interesting to hear what else you have to say, so far you've brought up a fundamental question and your thoughts on it.
 
Logical positivists- and even people like Richard Dawkins, Hitchens, and the "New Atheists" - hone in on this definitional dilemma. One of the primary questions in informal logic is- What is the definition. Because there exists no objective or verifiable answer they retort that the question of "Who is God?" is meaningless because there is no real point of reference. I don't necessarily agree fully, but I do think they are on to something. IOW, what is the correlation point between God/god and that being's essence? Can we really know simply by observing nature? What parts of nature speak of the "essence of God"? The beauty and harmony of a flower or the setting of the sun? Or the destruction of a hurricane, tsunami, or earthquake? If you look towards nature the answer is incomplete and ambiguous in terms of what her/his/It's personality might be.

Below is how I tend to think that religions try to attempt answer the question of God:

Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism- they are all very good at observing human nature and behavior. Many people connect with parts of scripture that describe themselves. When the apostle Paul says "That which I wish to do I do not and that I wish not to do I do." Common human ailment, no? Then, with this fairly objective observation in hand, Paul suggests (demands?) why this is the case- "You are a sinner, inborn with the traits of Adam and Eve following their fall in the Garden of Eden." Now there is some interpretational differences in what Paul means here- Reformed/Calvinists believe that Christ imputes his righteousness and typically Arminian/Wesleyans believe that Paul is speaking pre-conversion only and that Christ imparts righteousness.

I put all that in here for this reason: Religions take objective occurences like certain human behaviors or natural disasters (visible, external) and imbue them with divine significance (invisible, metaphysical). This is why, I believe, that so many people are religious. A common response is, "Yeah, I do that! So it is because of Satan/Allah/Yahweh/Adam/Muhammed/Sin etc.... What else can this holy book show me?" Once inside a religion confirmation bias often occurs. Suddenly the complexities of the universe can be explained through this (Islam, Christian, etc) filter. It is the same with many philosophies- religious or not. This, to me, is the problem with any "ism". Rather than sift through the complexities you simply use a singular filter to explain or prescribe behavior.

In many respects I find it fascinating that religious geniuses (founders or explicators of religion experience) are so observant of human nature, whether it be intrapersonal or interpersonal. I just don't necessarily agree with the highly anthropomophic divine causation (Yes, I know Buddhism is not a theistic religion, but Tibetan buddhism is quite close to a functional polytheism minus the authoritarian bent).
 
There are known health and emotional benefits to having positive (non-abusive) relationships with a god.QUOTE]

I read a book some years back that asserted that human beings have a center in ther brain that responds when one enters a state of worship. Healing chemicals are released, and specific electrical impulses are detectable. this was recognizable in studies of subjucts from most religious groups. I can't think of the name of the book at the moment, but if I do, I will share it.

This book was trying to prove scientifically that humans are hard wired to have a belief system that incorporates a higher power.  It had some good information.
 
I read a book some years back that asserted that human beings have a center in ther brain that responds when one enters a state of worship. Healing chemicals are released, and specific electrical impulses are detectable. this was recognizable in studies of subjucts from most religious groups. I can't think of the name of the book at the moment, but if I do, I will share it.

This book was trying to prove scientifically that humans are hard wired to have a belief system that incorporates a higher power.  It had some good information.

Was this the book? The "God" Part of the Brain by Matthew Alper.
 
No it was called Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief. It was written by [ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&field-author=Andrew%20Newberg"]Andrew Newberg[/ame], [ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_2?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&field-author=Eugene%20D%27Aquili"]Eugene D'Aquili[/ame], and [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Vince-Rause/e/B001IGOW04/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_3"]Vince Rause[/ame]. I lent it out and did not get it back. I would like to read it again. As I said, it had some good information in it.
 
Not having a lot of time and energy to write a small book myself, I would like to add this weekend is a very serious weekend to Christians and Jews worldwide. Millions will be celebrating/worshipping for Easter and Passover. Easter will focus on the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That will never go away.
Happy Easter, and Passover to my friends of the Jewish faith.
 
Ok, I finally read your post. :nod:
I've been busy recently doing other stuff and farting around.
This reply is pretty basic but I hope that it brings up a few pointers.

Romans 1:19 - 20
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

What is a God?
When we think of a God, generally the first thing that will come to peoples minds is the image of an old man with a beard sitting on a throne of some sort. However a God doesn't necessarily have to be supernatural, but simply a thing that is worshiped.

Dictionary definition of 'Worship'

Verb: Show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
Noun: The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity: "ancestor

Why and what do people worship?

For most people whether they realize it or not, they worship (or religiously serve) for favor from their God or Gods, In hope that through their devotion they will be promised and rewarded in the following - security, significance, an identity, a meaningful future, being the cause that they live for, never disappointed or failed and given joy while being glorified. This is the basis of religion. In what people worship can also include the idolization of materialistic items eg; money, drugs, possessions, food etc. and living natural beings or activities eg; people, family, animals, plants, sex, fame etc.

Where did the idea of God come from?

The below is quoted from Gotquestions.org
1. Something exists
2. You don’t get something from nothing
3. Therefore, something necessary and eternal exists
4. The only two options are an eternal universe or an eternal Creator
5. Science has disproved the concept of an eternal universe
6. Therefore, an eternal Creator exists
I understand that number five is debatable, but this list does offer a good point and basic explanation that is relative to this thread.
 
GOD IS A DJ.
Seriously, assuming God exists I don't believe that humans can have any knowledge about that question, rather they can have faith and that's subjective. Either chimpanzees can have knowledge of me writing in a forum. And given their life condition they couldn't care less.
The only thing I can say for sure, being human, is that God is a human need.
It is like grace, forgiveness and other emotions without practical application unless you choose so.
You take abstract senses which are not measurable and make it part of your philosophy which is reflected in your every day life.
I consider God as one of the greatest powers of the human mind, a proof that our needs can be more than animal impulses. They can create value system and cultures.
I also find that god is a useful tool to manipulate humans (exactly as food to the hungry and money to the poor) that's why I refuse to engage into religion, I can make a lifestyle without this element.
 
matariki said:
Where did the idea of God come from?
The below is quoted from Gotquestions.org
Quote:
1. Something exists
2. You don’t get something from nothing
3. Therefore, something necessary and eternal exists
4. The only two options are an eternal universe or an eternal Creator
5. Science has disproved the concept of an eternal universe
6. Therefore, an eternal Creator exists
I understand that number five is debatable, but this list does offer a good point and basic explanation that is relative to this thread.


Number five is debatable because the idea of god was there way before science had proven anything. And since there were these two (under 4) choices why any of the ancient people did not believe in eternal materials?
I think the idea of the God came from ignorance rather than from conclusions. ("Who is thundering up in the sky? -It must be God.")

And the only ground to believe nowadays is because we don't know anything about the number 1 and 2 sentences.