What do you think causes a person to massacre others?

[acd]

Here is a study written about Charles J. Whitman (Texas Bell Tower Sniper) It's something to think about...
I have pity for this man..I imagine the struggle within himself was more horrific than anyone could fathom..

@Sriracha :

http://brainmind.com/Case5.html

 

[muir]

I see Heath Ledger's joker in a different way

Film has been used since its beginning to mould perceptions. This isn't 'conspiracy theory'....just speak to any film student you know about films like 'The birth of a nation', 'battleship potemkin' or the films Leni Riefenstahl made about Hitler

Films have been used by elites to shape peoples perceptions and are still used by elites as well as activists (see for example documentaries by John Pilger or Michael Moore etc)

Hollywood has always been controlled by a small elite. In the 'golden era' they were called the 'big five' studios now they are the big six, which are themselves part of the following conglomerates:

Viacom, Time Warner, Sony, The Walt Disney Company, Comcast/General electric, News Corporation

These corporations operate in a pyramid like hierarchical structure controlled by a few people at the top. For example Rupert Murdoch controls News Corp

Film is controlled by these elites who only want certain perceptions put out into the public consciousness. For example they might not want anti-corporation perspectives put out in their films and such projects will not make it to filming

So anyway....back to the joker.....

The corporate elites know that the batman films are very popular and will get large audiences. I mean they are about a kung fu trained crime fighter dressed as a bat who has better gadgets then james bond....whats not to like?

So these films are very good vehicles for egtting across certain perceptions.

The recent batman films have been made since the financial crisis which is often said to have started in 2008. The economic crisis has seen a lot of social upheval and protest and the elites are worried that there is a real danger of revolution from the public.

The joker character is an 'agent of chaos' who is threatening to tear apart the fabric of society. This is tapping into the zeitgeist of the social unrest society is experiencing in real life. But the alternative to the unbalanced capitalist society depicted in the batman films where a billionaire has to go around the city beating up criminals and pick pockets (crime is usually the result of poverty, pointing to gotham having a problem with poverty and inequality) that is offered by the joker is a frightening and chaotic world where the rule of law breaks down and crime runs rampant

What the film does is try to scare people into thinking that if they oppose the current authority of society it will result in a horrifying chaos. They also try to equate the word 'anarchy' with the word 'chaos', but anarchy is not chaos.

Anarchy is order but it is order that comes from power being exercised from the bottom of society by the people instead of the capitalist 'order' (disorder if you ask me!) that comes from power being exercised from above by small elites

The elites do not want people to be aware of viable alternatives to capitalism because if they are aware then they would demand them!

The implication is also that anyone talking about alternatives must be crazy and dangerous

Watch this clip from the film to see what i mean:

[video=youtube;pfmkRi_tr9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmkRi_tr9c[/video]

hmmm...

 

[subwayrider]

Basically, a series of bad circumstances combined with prolonged aggressive psychosis and a total lack of empathy will do it. This guy was probably insane in a way similar to the Arizona shooter. His parents are probably terrible people as well.

Actually, he attended the neighboring high school to mine, and one of my friends knows him (James Holmes). He comes from a very well-to-do Christian family. My friend remembers him as a very nice guy-- a great older brother, a good friend. It's cases like these where it gets really murky. Then again, you never know what's going on behind closed doors, but everything points to him having had a good upbringing.

Also, I feel the need to point out that Ted Bundy even reported having had a good upbringing with good parents. For the people who have had a great life, who were treated with respect and love, it's even more puzzling.

As an introvert, I could see someone becoming so estranged from the outside world that it begins to feel like it's not real. I once had an experience where I was alone and didn't talk to anyone for over a month. I was slowly losing it. Without knowing why, I began torturing insects and throwing knives at the wall to see if they would stick. There are people who so need healthy human interaction, and when they do not get it, do go crazy.

 

[subwayrider]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

Maybe it's a case of one word historically having multiple accepted definitions?

Dictionary.com has your definition as well as "political and social disorder due to lack of governmental control."

Admittedly, I do see this strategy used a lot, elsewhere. Interchanging words that don't necessarily mean the same thing to refer to the same thing is a strategy often used by politicians. In any case, in the example with the films, and in most other instances, I don't think it's out of ignorance.

 

[muir]

@muir

Maybe it's a case of one word historically having multiple accepted definitions?

Dictionary.com has your definition as well as "political and social disorder due to lack of governmental control."

Admittedly, I do see this strategy used a lot, elsewhere. Interchanging words that don't necessarily mean the same thing to refer to the same thing is a strategy often used by politicians. In any case, in the example with the films, and in most other instances, I don't think it's out of ignorance.

I think its an intentional tactic

orwell worked in the propaganda department in the BBC and he talks at length in his book '1984' about how the elite mess with language for example 'doulespeak'. he said the aim is to get people to the point where they will believe that 2+2=5, because once they're that confused you can tell them anything:

''The very vocabulary of the people was under Party Control; a system called “newspeak” was encouraged. One of the most dreaded words in the arsenal of Newspeak was the most heinous offence according to the Party – that of “thoughtcrime” which was sure to be punished by the Thought police. The slogans of Newspeak are “War is Peace” Freedom is Slavery” and “Ignorance is Strength.”
Winston pretended to toe the official line so as to dodge the thought police but terrifyingly, the pretence often spilled over into reality, so that he did not always know if he actually hated or adored Big Brother. On this particular day, Winston was planning to indulge in a clandestine activity which would mean at least a concentration camp if discovered- he was going to keep a diary.''

The lingusitics professor Chomsky would call this an 'abuse of language':

''In the very 800 page book to which Lukin refers, Chomsky writes in the tradition of George Orwell about terms like “free enterprise” and “free world” which are designed “to insinuate somehow that the system of control and domination and aggression to which those with power were committed were in fact a kind of freedom.”


Similarly, “the national interest” is used as a term of propaganda “designed, often very consciously, in order to try to block thought and understanding.”

Chomsky reveals the way that the use of terms such as “defense” mystifies our own aggression as in Vietnam. He writes “These are ways in which our intellects are dulled and our capacity for thought is destroyed and our possibility for meaningful political action is undermined by very effective systems of indoctrination and thought control that involve, as all such systems do, abuse of language.” http://theconversation.edu.au/choms...s-and-a-response-to-an-unfair-allegation-4391

 

[JGirl]

In light of the recent activity in Aurora, Colorado ... this is a part of psychology that I cannot understand. This man (allegedly) did not know any of these victims. It is not like he was bullied by any of them. He booby trapped his apartment so it would kill anyone that walked in. Here are a list of facts on this incident: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/world_news&id=8743134

What is it that causes a person to want to kill others? Yes insanity is an option, but less than 1% of insanity cases win in court. This is well thought out and premeditated.

I just don't get it (and feel fortunate that I don't.)

to me, it's not just a question of why did this guy do it or that guy do it - it's the ripple effect ('tsunami' more like it) of a collapse of society as a whole. meltdown. lemmings running off a cliff. i don't see it turning around any time soon.
i don't mean to sound as though i belittle it, but it's truly how i perceive it.

 

[Vict]

A sense of complete defeat.

 

[Gaze]

Kinda agree with [MENTION=4855]JGirl[/MENTION], think it's a symptom of a larger societal problem. I just don't think we care as much anymore, and people think it's cool to be rebels and outcasts, and hold others responsible for their problems. And honestly, it's a lack of social responsibility in the world at large. We've deadened our conscience. We don't think there's real right and wrong anymore. Emotional intelligence and emotional management skills are lacking. We've taught some of our youth that their happiness is decided and controlled by some external locus, and that they're "young" so they are not really responsible for their lives or actions. Unless we acknowledge some of these perceptions and the dangerous effect they have on the attitude of younger generations, I'm scared to think what will happen. Yes, maybe there will always be sociopaths and psychopaths and people who just don't give a damn. But for the most part, we need to explain to people that there are other ways to deal with personal problems and issues, and that it's not acceptable to take it out on others. And there's this belief that it's cool to be apathetic and dangerous and mysterious. And for heaven's sake, we need to quit telling young men that they should toughen up and suck it up if they have problems. Young men have a higher suicide rate than women. Although there are many factors for this, it's ridiculous how many think it's necessary. Young men are too often made to think they should be ashamed or feel less masculine or whatever the reason is for needing assistance or help. So, they deal with it alone because they are told that their feelings eventually will go away, just ignore it. But then, rather than go away, those feelings fester and blow up in violence against other people. We need to quit ignoring the dangers of these attitudes towards emotional problems or issues. Growing up, we were always told, "prevention is better than cure."

 

[this is only temporary]

You're probably right -- at least partially --- but didn't the Aurora guy actually think he was the Joker? That says "batshit crazy" to me more so than simple society problems. Although I am not arguing with you about that, it is just more complicated, IMO.

The Aurora guy dyed his hair and went totally and completely off the deep end at a Batman movie, and that seems to me to like he was living completely in a fantasy world. Also, I heard that he told his psychiatrist he had fantasies about killing lots of people, and the psychiatrist was either unwilling or unable to do anything, because obviously, you can't simply lock people up just because they have violent fantasies. So THAT to me is an issue also -- not that we need to lock people up, but that if someone goes around saying they want to mass murder people, maybe it would be a good idea to take them at their word. What you do about it at that point, I don't know.

The shooter in Connecticut was estranged from his brother and father, and had been for some time, so I'm sure he felt very rejected, and I'm also sure his mother had little help dealing with him alone and was struggling to care for him since he had mental health issues and again, what do you do when someone is struggling with mental health issues and is occassionally violent? (Well, one thing you probably don't want to do is give them assault rifles.) The whole situation is unspeakably awful, and it is a lot more complicated that societal problems.

I often think many people have severe, severe difficulty distinguishing between reality and movies/video games/YouTube/etc. and I can't help but wonder how much that sort of thing has to do with why these people do what they do. Mental illness + thinking life is a #*@^ing movie + easy availability of semi-automatic weaponry + society problems all seem to contribute to it.

 

[Azazel]

I've written a lengthy text, I confess, but I don't think I should post it... What I'm still going to say is this: I believe everyone could lose control and either kill themselves or the others out of frustration, anger, hate, etc. It takes a lot A LOT of shit to mess someone up like this. I can see why. Of course, I'm not talking about the case when a murderer has had the issues from the early childhood/youth or had a severe mental illness.

 

[the]

An ideal and nothing to lose.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Interesting fact to be added:

From what I know scientists have found a gene, witch can make a person what is know to be a Psychopath. Studies have shown that mass murderers in general cary this gene. By any means it does not mean that these people will always be killers. One of the specialists in this subject also caries this gene and he is not a murderer. What is known is that mass murderers generally have had a bad childhood, combining the fact that they cary this gene.

When I find supportive information to my post i will show it, probably soon.

I'm pretty sure I have this gene. A lot of times I don't relate to people when it comes to killing. I notice most people make killing to be some crazy thing where you are overwhelmed with guilt afterward and I never understood it. I hope people don't take this the wrong way because I would never kill someone for no reason. I just feel I'm easily capable of killing a person and I wouldn't feel remorse if the conditions were right. I never tell people this because I'm afraid they will think I'm a psycho when I'm not. I just want to be transparent with the people on the forum because there is value in it for them, to understand the minds of others and how they are different. Also I've never been afraid of violence. People get scared in fights but I just get excited. I really don't understand it when I see people run from a fight or a mass shooting. I've never understood how someone could run from a shooter, when I picture myself in a situation like a mass shooting I always envision myself attacking the person and either getting shot or taking him down, or both, getting shot while I take him down. Also I should point out I have a crazy family. There are killers/gangsters/alcoholics/depressed people in my blood line and we are highly emotional people, we cry a lot and stuff. I honestly think I got it from them.

My point is, I feel it within. For some reason I don't relate to people when it comes to the issue of killing. Or maybe the people who feel like me just aren't being noticed because they are afraid of being judged. Maybe they feel pressured to act astonished and baffled by people who kill when secretly they feel like me.

*Does anyone else on the forum feel like this?

 

[this is only temporary]

Well, I know what it feels like to be berserk (as in Berserkers (or berserks) were Norse warriors who are reported in the Old Norse literature to have fought in a nearly uncontrollable, trance-like fury, a characteristic which later gave rise to the English word berserk.) Which is why I am glad no one has ever given me a nuclear weapon, because I would use it.
But it takes a lot to get like this, it is not like I would ever do it for fun, or unprovoked.


But stilll... there's a big difference between that state and calmly walking into a movie theatre or a kindergarten class full of people who are posing no threat whatsoever, and shooting them.

Also, I do not see Batman, Rambo or Star Wars as documentaries. I feel like some of these people do. :/

 

[Vanixaria]

Actually, he attended the neighboring high school to mine, and one of my friends knows him (James Holmes). He comes from a very well-to-do Christian family. My friend remembers him as a very nice guy-- a great older brother, a good friend. It's cases like these where it gets really murky. Then again, you never know what's going on behind closed doors, but everything points to him having had a good upbringing.

Also, I feel the need to point out that Ted Bundy even reported having had a good upbringing with good parents. For the people who have had a great life, who were treated with respect and love, it's even more puzzling.

As an introvert, I could see someone becoming so estranged from the outside world that it begins to feel like it's not real. I once had an experience where I was alone and didn't talk to anyone for over a month. I was slowly losing it. Without knowing why, I began torturing insects and throwing knives at the wall to see if they would stick. There are people who so need healthy human interaction, and when they do not get it, do go crazy.

I still feel it's detachment. When a person really doesn't get meaningful social interaction, he or she loses sight of humanity and all that that entails. Our brains are quite skilled at creating theories from which there is no real basis simply by thinking along tangents - case and point if any of you have actually tried to make sense out of the meaning of life being 42 (raises hand). I, too, have had very "alone" moments in my life - well, most of my life - and empathy dissipates without social interaction. I would lose sight of the knowledge all people feel. Thankfully, I never took my apathy to the level of experimentation of the masses, but some do. Some even have thought so deeply as to feel they are making the world "better" by doing what they do. Heath Ledger's interpretation of the Joker was a bit too realistic for me. I could easily see how someone would fall into his line of thinking and how that thinking made perfect sense. Has anyone else noticed that the majority of mass murderers seem to be in the higher IQ range? Maybe some rationalize it along the lines of the Darwin Awards and that they are helping to weed out the weak and build the strong. Who knows? I guess this little stream of consciousness of mine is just that and I understand the thought processes that can lead one to contemplate shooting a gun into the masses, however, there is a line which all humanity has accepted is simply not cross-able; and, some people choose to step outside the box for good or for ill. I stand by the belief that all mass murderers at some point believe either it is beyond their control or they have convinced themselves it is for the better good.

 

[housel]

I think that human brain is rather complicated thing that develops depending on circumstances, experiences and perception (point of view, personality..) as time passes. Under specific sequences for certain personality, everything can be a trigger and everyone can be a gun.

 

[muir]

Well, I know what it feels like to be berserk (as in Berserkers (or berserks) were Norse warriors who are reported in the Old Norse literature to have fought in a nearly uncontrollable, trance-like fury, a characteristic which later gave rise to the English word berserk.) Which is why I am glad no one has ever given me a nuclear weapon, because I would use it.
But it takes a lot to get like this, it is not like I would ever do it for fun, or unprovoked.


But stilll... there's a big difference between that state and calmly walking into a movie theatre or a kindergarten class full of people who are posing no threat whatsoever, and shooting them.

Also, I do not see Batman, Rambo or Star Wars as documentaries. I feel like some of these people do. :/

There's a strong argument to be made that the berserk state was as a result of post traumatic stress disorder developed from previous violent encounters

I guess hacking someone up at close quarters with an axe in a them or you encounter is going to have some impact on the psyche

Of course when you are raised in a culture that tells you that the way to get a place at the table of the gods is to die in battle with a sword in your hand you are gonna have some pretty messed up concepts of whats wrong or right which is inevitably going to lead to an unbalanced state of mind and to the kind of situations that can arise from that

For modern examples look at cultures that militarise their young and glorify violence eg USA, UK, Israel and you can see how a lot of youngsters go off to war with ideas in their head of 'fighting for their country' (glorification...their version of the valhalla myth) and then coming back traumatised after they have gotten themselves a big dose of reality

Rose tinted glasses left in the mud on the battle field

 

[Apone]

*Does anyone else on the forum feel like this?

[video=youtube;KUsGDVOCLVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUsGDVOCLVQ[/video]