What do you think causes a person to massacre others?
- Thread starter Sriracha
- Start date
I dont know. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about what is going on for him and why he did this. This is very sad for everyone involved and i pray that all these people related to this event will find peace and grace.
I hate to simplify thing so crudely, but on the most basic level i see this as a deep lack of Love, and an act motivated by Fear. This is an event that can not just be understood simply by examining this individual. We have to look at the deeper matrix, the culture, environment and society in which he was formed. No one exists in a vaccum. No man is an island
I hate to simplify thing so crudely, but on the most basic level i see this as a deep lack of Love, and an act motivated by Fear. This is an event that can not just be understood simply by examining this individual. We have to look at the deeper matrix, the culture, environment and society in which he was formed. No one exists in a vaccum. No man is an island
As @justme has said operation MKUltra did and does exist.....they have continued the program because it works
I am putting forward the idea that some people might find difficult to believe that it is possible to control people. The attorney of Bobby kennedys assassin Sirhan Sirhan believed that he was under 'hypnosis'
I believe the people who are using mind control on these people want them to appear completly batshit crazy to the public so that they can always peddle the line in the mainstream media that these guys are 'lone crazed gunmen'.....they're still trying to peddle that shit about the JFK assassination when forensics says its a nonsense (see the 'magic bullet' theory). There was more than one assassin and Oswald (whether involved in some capacity or not) was in turn assassinated by Ruby to silence him
@Asarya : I personally really cannot trust any of his words. I will try my best not to be judgmental with his reasoning and/or psychology, but yeah; I cannot trust his reasoning. If we're talking physiology and neuroscience, sure, though.
And I'd really think the psychology of people who adore this guy is more interesting than the psychology of the murderer himself.
I mean;
http://jezebel.com/5927828/disturbi...pies-think-hes-hot-sexy-cute?comment=51247334
There's also another one, with the Canadian gay mutilator.... and apparently it has been so since a long time ago
WTFWTFWTF WHYYYYY
And I'd really think the psychology of people who adore this guy is more interesting than the psychology of the murderer himself.
I mean;
http://jezebel.com/5927828/disturbi...pies-think-hes-hot-sexy-cute?comment=51247334
There's also another one, with the Canadian gay mutilator.... and apparently it has been so since a long time ago
WTFWTFWTF WHYYYYY
If he's a copycat, I think he's made enough precautions and preparation of his own to be a terrifying creator of his own.
I can see why he called himself the Joker, AND wanting to see how people's reaction would be.
Dark as the Dark Knight is; people in movies are never as complex as people in Real Life.
Then I say it's a successful futile attempt.
Can he get attention if he doesn't get to see (most of) them?
I can see a certain pride / martyr complex entrenched ('it's alright even if I don't survive this, but the world will have seen the fruits of my effort! I HAVE CHANGED THE WORLD BUAHAHAHAHAHAHA'>> which, is the way I see Heath Ledger's Joker as well) but even then...
What is the point of a deaf bird's song?
(NOZOOLOGYBACKGROUNDHERETHISISJUSTANEXPRESSION)
I see Heath Ledger's joker in a different way
Film has been used since its beginning to mould perceptions. This isn't 'conspiracy theory'....just speak to any film student you know about films like 'The birth of a nation', 'battleship potemkin' or the films Leni Riefenstahl made about Hitler
Films have been used by elites to shape peoples perceptions and are still used by elites as well as activists (see for example documentaries by John Pilger or Michael Moore etc)
Hollywood has always been controlled by a small elite. In the 'golden era' they were called the 'big five' studios now they are the big six, which are themselves part of the following conglomerates:
Viacom, Time Warner, Sony, The Walt Disney Company, Comcast/General electric, News Corporation
These corporations operate in a pyramid like hierarchical structure controlled by a few people at the top. For example Rupert Murdoch controls News Corp
Film is controlled by these elites who only want certain perceptions put out into the public consciousness. For example they might not want anti-corporation perspectives put out in their films and such projects will not make it to filming
So anyway....back to the joker.....
The corporate elites know that the batman films are very popular and will get large audiences. I mean they are about a kung fu trained crime fighter dressed as a bat who has better gadgets then james bond....whats not to like?
So these films are very good vehicles for egtting across certain perceptions.
The recent batman films have been made since the financial crisis which is often said to have started in 2008. The economic crisis has seen a lot of social upheval and protest and the elites are worried that there is a real danger of revolution from the public.
The joker character is an 'agent of chaos' who is threatening to tear apart the fabric of society. This is tapping into the zeitgeist of the social unrest society is experiencing in real life. But the alternative to the unbalanced capitalist society depicted in the batman films where a billionaire has to go around the city beating up criminals and pick pockets (crime is usually the result of poverty, pointing to gotham having a problem with poverty and inequality) that is offered by the joker is a frightening and chaotic world where the rule of law breaks down and crime runs rampant
What the film does is try to scare people into thinking that if they oppose the current authority of society it will result in a horrifying chaos. They also try to equate the word 'anarchy' with the word 'chaos', but anarchy is not chaos.
Anarchy is order but it is order that comes from power being exercised from the bottom of society by the people instead of the capitalist 'order' (disorder if you ask me!) that comes from power being exercised from above by small elites
The elites do not want people to be aware of viable alternatives to capitalism because if they are aware then they would demand them!
The implication is also that anyone talking about alternatives must be crazy and dangerous
Watch this clip from the film to see what i mean:
[video=youtube;pfmkRi_tr9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmkRi_tr9c[/video]
People are quick to jab an accusatory finger at mental illness or drugs, but humans kill. Sometimes all it takes is jealousy, rage, confusion, anxiety, or just because - some simply place little or no value in human life. A soldier goes out and shoots down 17 people and many, most actually, say nothing and think nothing of it (in fact, they might say good riddance to the fallen). This gentleman shoots down a dozen people and suddenly everyone's asking why. There are many, many reasons, and it's probably a combination of things... but people simply kill people, all the time, even over something as small as $20 or a scrap of food, and they don't to be mentally ill, on drugs, or deprived of meaningful human interaction.
The media is blamed, too, and roles like the Joker do romanticize murder. People adore the Joker, they create homages to him, draw his portrait, even though if they heard about someone doing what he does in fiction in real life they would be horrified. It's easy for people to be drawn into this, and forget the nature of the actions that are glorified on the big screen. That doesn't mean that everyone's going out there and shooting down people because they saw it on TV. The news is bringing up that he was going to a psychologist for schizophrenia, but there isn't a statistically significant increase in violence in people with schizophrenia, as opposed to those who aren't schizophrenic - and, if someone with schizophrenia is violent, it's most likely that they're violent towards themselves.
He killed because he decided he was going to do so, because he's a human being and humans kill other humans on a massive scale on a daily basis, just as they have done all throughout history. It's one of the things that sets us apart from the other animals. Far too often, the only thing that keeps someone from killing or harming someone when something sets them off is the thought "Crap. What if I get caught?" Not "It's not right to hurt another living being."
The media is blamed, too, and roles like the Joker do romanticize murder. People adore the Joker, they create homages to him, draw his portrait, even though if they heard about someone doing what he does in fiction in real life they would be horrified. It's easy for people to be drawn into this, and forget the nature of the actions that are glorified on the big screen. That doesn't mean that everyone's going out there and shooting down people because they saw it on TV. The news is bringing up that he was going to a psychologist for schizophrenia, but there isn't a statistically significant increase in violence in people with schizophrenia, as opposed to those who aren't schizophrenic - and, if someone with schizophrenia is violent, it's most likely that they're violent towards themselves.
He killed because he decided he was going to do so, because he's a human being and humans kill other humans on a massive scale on a daily basis, just as they have done all throughout history. It's one of the things that sets us apart from the other animals. Far too often, the only thing that keeps someone from killing or harming someone when something sets them off is the thought "Crap. What if I get caught?" Not "It's not right to hurt another living being."
The point of a deaf bird's song is to please a little old lady. (Just a lesson from my past.)
I'd like to point out how many good people are out there that don't even think about shooting other people unless they have to that own guns, ammo, mags, and such. The odds are against something tragic like this happening, but nothing can stop the madness altogether as long as we live in a world filled with people. There is an abundance of law-abiding gun owners in the world. Gasoline cannot be outlawed, either.
Last thing I'd like to see is someone getting killed for no reason, which makes me wonder about reason altogether.
I cannot reason this person's actions.
I don't think it even needs to be said, but plenty of people saw the Dark Knight and didn't kill anyone. Plenty of people expose themselves to all kinds of media and don't kill people. If anyone is to blame it's the gunman himself, as well as his parents and the people who could have helped him but didn't. Killing is a natural impulse in every creature... censoring/taking away the media isn't going to change anything.
Let's face it-- if most people see someone who is dark and withdrawn and kinda creepy, they don't reach out/try to help, they run away. So unless that person somehow finds a way to make themselves less creepy/more sociable, they're pretty much left alone to stew with their thoughts either implode/suicide or explode violently or otherwise. This isn't going to change that either... actually, it will probably just make people even more paranoid/afraid to reach out to people who are isolated/in trouble. And this will keep happening.
Let's face it-- if most people see someone who is dark and withdrawn and kinda creepy, they don't reach out/try to help, they run away. So unless that person somehow finds a way to make themselves less creepy/more sociable, they're pretty much left alone to stew with their thoughts either implode/suicide or explode violently or otherwise. This isn't going to change that either... actually, it will probably just make people even more paranoid/afraid to reach out to people who are isolated/in trouble. And this will keep happening.
We give this person way too much credit by focusing on the supposed reasons or causes. He's just a guy who thought he could do something, that he doesn't have the right to do. As long as there is this belief that someone can do whatever they want to do, without consequence. We've glorified the lone gunman so often, where they seem like some all powerful bad guy who are laws onto themselves. And also, when people no longer fear consequences of their actions, they naturally believe it is justified to do something that is unconscienable as if not caring is a justification for doing it. We give persons with an apathetic "i don't care" or "i don't care what people think" attitude too much credit. It makes them seem invincible and above reprimand or reproach for what they've done. Their apparent inability to care becomes some all purpose justification for any or everything.
I can understand your distrust and outrage. I dont think its necessarily about being able to relate to, personally understand, or trust his reasoning. Its more about hearing the reasoning from the horses mouth rather than simply speculating. In all truth, we dont know why he did it. We dont know whats been going on. Only he knows why, and perhaps even he doesnt understand why. Very few people have that level of self awareness. Most simply get caught up in cycles and patterns, not understanding that they are responsible for creating these patterns and cycles and that they have a way out. I really believe that when people reach the level where it becomes possible to kill- they are pretty desperate and caught up in the strange reality that they have created for themselves. They become afraid and no longer see a way out.
The psychology of people that are attracted to murderers is certainly an interesting kettle of fish. I have actually conversed with someone that told me that they were attracted to an infamous murderer. In short, this woman was pretty self destructive, had serious abandonment and father issues, and to top it off she actually thought that she could be the one to 'change him'. Hmnn. I guess at some level the 'law of attraction' applies as well.
It's both about self awareness and how far he's presenting himself.
Was it an uncontrollable impulse? Did it turn into an insatiable hunger he cannot hold? Or did he know-- and embraced that urge? How much of the urge was controlling him, and how much was being controlled?
How far about the presentation was conscious? How much is a twisted honesty-- and how much is a carefully crafted image to send the loudest/strongest/most impacting message to the general public?
From Gawker, there has been reports that the college psychiatrist / psychologist had some serious concerns regarding his behavior, and had reported him to one side of the authorities. Again, how unfortunate.
http://gawker.com/5930565/why-james-holmes-has-fans-on-the-internet
There was a further dissection on this topic on Gawker as well-- and there are some 'Holmies' commenting. They seemed to be the less disturbing variant of the fans..
While the extreme judginess on their mental state and behaviour does sounds offputting, I cannot help but admit that there's a certain...lapse of judgment -- or was it a misapplication of empathy?-- on the Holmies' side.
In regards to him and his groupies, i think its really important to reflect on the culture as a whole that has nurtured this. We live in an egotistical culture that is literally geared towards creating and celebrating psycopaths. Self serving behaviour is rewarded and altruistic behaviour is looked down upon. Its all about creating fears and insecurities in people, and then watching them claw and fight their way foward to get their piece of pie, not caring who they hurt in the process. For so long that divide and conquor approach has been encouraged because people power and the community approach is the antithesis of our economical and cultural model. How are people supposed to maintain their ridiculous hordes of wealth if people start working together to create a better life for everyone. So we compete against each other, fill ourselves up with processed sugar and other poisons, buy and dump tonnes of plastic landfill, purchase clothing, accessories, electronics and food made on the back of slavery, power our world with the oil of middle eastern unrest and we call all this progress and the 'first world'. we defend the right to make and use weapons and sell them to the desperate and war torn countries. Its just bullhist. Rather than encouraging true self love, confidence and awareness, its just buy and consume. So many people, just starved of any kind of love, postive attention or acknowledgement. Been taught to be afraid, attack and defend. Dont understand how to communicate or how to move foward. So many feel helpless and confused.
I find it just as repulsive when people worship celebrities and other 'billionare business people' that live trashy lives and roll around in wealth whilst there are so many amazing hardworking brilliant people in our communities that are truly trying to create a better world for us all. The media celebrates people like this and ignores the countless people that are good because unfortunately thats what consumers would rather hear about and it helps reinforce the message in our society that people are bad and we should all be very afraid and security conscious and just concentrate on protecting our own and buying ourselves happiness and protection because people are out to get us and hurt our families and that we are all crap and helpless. Humans are not bad or inherently self serving- thats what we have been taught and encouraged to believe. Psychopaths are created by us all by the choices we make and what we choose to nurture. If we were to analyse the health of single tree in a forest, we would have to take into consideration the health of the whole forest and the state of the other trees, how the tree was nutured and fed and what grows around it. This isnt just about one individual and their impulses, its a story that fits into a wider matrix of 6 billion stories.
There are billions of people starved of Love, acknowledgement and connection. And people will try to do almost anything to fill in that emptiness. They are trying to find a way to relate and understand, in any way they can. But because of the nature of our society, it comes through as sick and warped, because our society is sick and warped.
While I, in some ways, agreed with all you said;
It's important to look at it from a different side, because from one perspective, it does sound bad. But from the other, they are espousing honorable values as well. Whether masking or covering or just plain focusing.
And the perspective of an outsider and an insider-- nay, member, are in a very, very different side.
It's not about right or wrong.
Or true or false.
If I may, try thinking what would drive most people, from their perspective, to do most of the things you're saying? What would make them consume and consume?