what about fathers? | INFJ Forum

what about fathers?

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by soulseeker, Jun 22, 2009.

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  1. soulseeker

    soulseeker Permanent Fixture

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    with my mom, i'm okay with her... i can see how much see takes ALL of the responsibilities that she has to take..even responsibilities that don't belong to her.

    i PITY HER A LOT.....I CAN SEE HOW HARD she works FOR ME AND for our family.. i've seen her physically,emotionally hurt and looked down on..i have SEEN how people treated her soooo badly.....

    and i can't EVEN SHOW MY GRATITUDE TO HER....
    I FIND IT SOO HARD.......AND IT HURTS ME A LOT because I know i love her it's just that, she doesn't get that i show my love through maybe good grades, doing my responsibilities and not going out/hanging out with my friends with boys and flirting around etc...

    but then with my dad, I HAVE ISSUES WITH HIM.....
    I know that whatever happens he's STILL going to be my dad but he just doesn't understand me or my mother...HE'S TOO SELFISH TO SEE HIS OWN MISTAKES.....

    MY mom is sick.... and he blames me for it.... he says that i'm the reason because I don't listen to them and i don't do what they want me to do....

    but then doesn't HE SEE what he does to my mom!?!!?

    he's like fighting with my mom and cursing my mom and wishing that my mom dies and all.......

    HOW COULD HE DO THAT!?!!?

    it was father's day yesterday and i didn't greet him...... i'm not comfortable greeting my parents happy birthday, happy mother's/father's day blah and all that...

    but with my father.. i don't really feel that I LOVE HIM that much,
    i know that may be hurtful to say but......
    with his attitude towards my mom and me..... i know it's impossible for MY FAMILY TO BE FAMILIY ORIENTED.....

    i'm just soo sooo jealous of the people who have a strong familiy....
    my dad ......i don't understand him.......

    but the real thing is...... my parents don't really like me that much....
    they wished i was smarter even if i have honors.....they wished i could sing when i could dance....they wish i was more respectful..when i think i am compared to others...

    it just makes me feel so worthless
     
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  2. amethyst

    amethyst Regular Poster

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    I think I can empathise with you a lot, I'm living back at home in a similar sounding situation at the mo so I've been thinking about family dynamics and the likes a good bit. I was always aware of what was going on but it wasn't until I had moved away for a while that I found the strength to try to do something about it and to realise my part in it too. It's not easy to be objective and analytical when you yourself are all tangled up in it, not just emotionally but tangled in the dysfunctional entity's behaviour (can't think of another way to put it). For my part I had to realise that I was trying to deal with what had a large part in my own creation and in some sense a reflection of all the things I needed to work on in myself.

    It sounds to me that you don't feel that you're communicating your love to your mom and the pain you feel is weighing you down and renderring you unable to act to change the situation, from finding a way to communicate it that it will be heard. From the rest of what you've written it sounds like this is a theme that permeates your family's interactions. It's like you're all trying to communicate indirectly and non verbally and it's maybe falling short for all of you? Perhaps if you try to break the cycle and articulate directly what you want/need to say. I know it sounds simple but if your family is anything like mine it's just not the done thing and because you've grown up with this behaviour model won't come all that easily to you.

    Like I said, it took me a long time to get to a place where I could do that myself and I don't want to make too many assumptions about you and your's but the difference these little things can make are pretty phenominal. Talking about things as they are could give them a chance to assess their own situations, which they may not have done for quite some time, focusing primarily on you. If any of this is making sense to you just keep in mind that you'd need to be patient to see behavioural changes in your parents as they have lived like that for so much longer and may even find some sense of comfort in it.

    Like you I have a lot of issues with my father, didn't acknowledge father's day at all, I just can't fake it - I even find myself going so far as to downplay mother's day to try to avoid feeling guilty about it. So personally at the moment I'm focusing on my mother because I can and I do care about her. In the back of my mind I am thinking that changes in her may affect changes in him in the long run, I don't want to neglect him completely as I do realise that he also suffers. But i also realise that she is choosing to stay with him and that's her responsibility.

    Basically what I'm saying is that what I've learned is that you must first understand and look after yourself and then you can start to do what you can for others, but sadly only if they are willing to let you. I can't remember who said it but I really like this quote and find it quite helpful - be the change you want to see in the world.

    Good luck to you soulseeker :)
     
  3. Whitefire89

    Whitefire89 Community Member

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    Its the same thing here Soulseeker.

    I hate my dad.-Thats that.-

    My mom doesnt really appove of my supernatural lifestyle.

    My dad and i Got into LITERL fights when i was younger, i was abused and my younger brothers.

    And i mean...i done been in so many fights with my mom that i sometimes do wonder HOW the heck are we family sometimes but...

    My mom, i KNOW i love her!:m169:

    And we may fight like a bitch bu thats bcuz sometimes she makes STUPID ass decisions and i HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM...but my mom cries all the the time soulseeker.

    Im telling you this bcuz i can relate to you(so damn much):m080:

    Yesterday i ALMOSt didnt tell my dad happy f-day.

    I say why should i? My friends say bcuz he broguth me into this world but to do what Beat me?!?!?

    f- dat! but-...my dad does suply with what i need in college and LATELY- i can...even though i dont wanna that hes trying to connect with me again but-no:m145:. I keep our conversations SHORT! and that will represent our relationship. Mom says i will regret it after hes dead but, id rather have him die far away from me than i get close to and pretedn its ll ok or like what he did doesnt count. idk...newaz enough on me soulseeker.

    I think u posted this to find others who can relate or help and im saying, i mena i honestly dont know.

    Just continue to love your mom.I blame my mom for too many shit in my life but she is one of the ONLY people i would EVEr die for....idk what else to tell you than say-if you love your mom-show her-if you dont love your did than...idk dont fake it towards him.thats what i say.
     
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  4. sassafras

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    Heh. I hope we don't start paving the way for a stereotype concerning INFJ females and 'daddy issues.' Because I can certainly relate to everything you've said, soulseeker.

    I have a love/hate relationship with my father. He's very authoritarian; picture a drill sergeant perfectionist. I can't tell you how many family holidays and birthday parties he's ruined because one insignificant detail or another didn't go the way he envisioned. And by insignificant details, I mean things like plate settings or running five minutes behind schedule or him being asked to pick up a shirt off the floor that he dropped.

    Every one is either wrong or an idiot, but he's never any of those things. If he makes a mistake, it's a mistake or a character flaw (and we all know we can't change our character flaws!) And if anyone dares challenge him otherwise, then we're 'all against him.'

    He's prone to angry outbursts. My mother and I never know what will set him off. He will yell at you for closing the screen door instead of the glass door, or hanging the car keys on the wrong hook. When I was younger, I was actually very frightened of him. Now, I don't stand for that shit. I'm not the kind of person that gets anything out of yelling at people, but I do yell at my father... and then feel incredibly bad about it afterwards and fight the urge to apologize for doing so.

    Because that's the thing with him. For all the terrorizing he does, he still wants the best for my brother and I, and when he wants to be, he can be a sweetheart to my mother. He doesn't curse, has never raised a hand against us, and I'm convinced he would give his life to make us happy.

    He just doesn't know how to be any other way. And I hate the fact that I'm already trying to explain/defend him, because this isn't something we have to tolerate.

    If he wasn't my father, I think I would truly despise him.

    But where you're concerned, soul, I think you just need to keep being who you are. Be the best you can be, because it's impossible to do anything else, and trust that it will all work out in the end. Even if parents sometimes don't show it (because they sometimes don't know how) they are proud of their children and love them very, very much.

    If you love your mother, show her. Treat her to a movie or a home spa; help her around the house, get involved when she's making dinner or take a night where you cook for the family. These are all materialistic things, and they may seem petty, but I'm sure she'll appreciate the help and the time spent with her daughter.

    As for your father, if you feel like he doesn't treat you right, all you can do is try to remain civil.
     
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    #4 sassafras, Jun 22, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  5. Krumplenump

    Krumplenump Community Member

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    I, we (as a family) have just come through something very similar to all the issues you describe.

    My fathers reaction to an event in my sisters life caused utter chaos to erupt, to the point where he blamed everyone and.. went to extreme lengths to prove it. I can tell you at the time I felt SO alone, SO powerless, helpless. Like there was nothing left in the world, my family was irreparably destroyed and would never have good times again.

    But, through a lot of hard work from all members of the family, invested time and of course outbursts of anguish, pain, sadness and anger, we have come back together again. 8 months of limbo have just come to an end.

    Coming to your problem now, all I can say it that from my experience NOTHING is final unless the people involved genuinely want it to be. In your heart, if you really want your issues with the father to be resolved, they will be. Like I said, it seemed to final to me at the time and for months afterwards, but now it seems all solved and we are closer than ever before.

    If your father was someone you didn't care about at all then I'd say walk away and make no effort to solve things. But I'm sure you care for him, and therefore may I suggest you try taking the initiative, let snide comments, bickerings and such go in one ear and out the other, take the initiative and start the ball of goodwill rolling. After a time I am sure it'll be reciprocated because in the end, your father must also care for you.

    I've only just come out of my family thing so I've not really had time to digest all that has happened, but I will give it more thought and if you want more help I'd be more than happy to offer mine!

    I wish you the best of luck with your father, friends are one thing but family is eternal. If love and care are involved then fate has a funny way of making things work out for the best, in the end.
     
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  6. Tamagochi

    Tamagochi Sushi Destroyer
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    outch, my heart cries with you, soul...

    I don't know if have words to soothe you or to bring hope. But do know that a lot of families are like this - some 60% or 70% according to statistics. And it's a very very sad thing happening to this world. Children live with divorced parents or are abused pysically and emotionally. I too grew up in an unhappy family - only in my case it was the mother who was emotionally abusive.

    You should also know, that children growing up in such families ALWAYS FEEL GUILTY for what is happening around them. They often believe, that it's because of them their parents are fighting or are being unhappy. So they desperatelly try to fix things by being good and loving as much as they can.

    The truth is that you're not responsible for any of this, none of it is your fault!!! Your mother loves and will always love you for who you are - it doesn't matter if you will be good or bad, whether you show grattitude or not. She has her own reasons to be unhappy and it's not connected with you.

    Your father is probably blinded by his own problems and cannot see his love for you. Maybe some day he will understand of how much pain you had to go through and how much he really loves you. Or maybe he won't ever undestand that. It's not something you can control.

    The best thing you can do is to be strong and to be yourself. So do go out with your friends - you can and should have some fun. If you do want to show your gratitude, then do it from your heart, but do not expect anything in return. Your parents may never change - learn to accept and love them just as they are.


    Oh, and I would have never though I'll say this - but I really miss your monkeys now...
     
  7. anica

    anica dark dreamer
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    I relate to all who have written on this thread, though in my family it was my mother who created most of the dysfunction, was verbally abusive and unable to love her children or her husband. I pity her now, but even at my age (61) and 13 years after her death, I still find myself wishing I could somehow have gained her approval for something I did.

    The issues in my family affected me in adulthood. I married men who were verbally abusive--and one physically so. In short, I recreated the same pattern of chaos I grew up in. I was afraid to have children for fear I would be unable to love them and didn't take the risk until I was 36. Fortunately I was relieved to find I loved my children intensely even before they were born, and I can only hope that that love mitigated some of the effects of their father's abuse and the dysfunction that permeated their young lives during my marriage to and divorce from their father.

    Family patterns are difficult to change, although one writer on this thread (of course I can't remember who now) has seen change where it seemed impossible. I am not saying you should give up all hope on your family, Soulseeker--and I think it's very important for you to let your mother know how you feel about her, not only for her sake but for yours. I also think it's important to find other sources of approval and love, either from friends, teachers, aunts, uncles, grandparents; whoever is availble and able to give.

    Perhaps most important of all, at least in my view, is for you to understand the dynamics of what is going on in your family and your feelings about it all. Keep a journal. Write a blog here; I find members of this forum incredibly supportive and accepting. Seek counseling when you're able to and be careful in choosing a counselor or therapist who can really help you deal with what you've been through. Self-knowledge is a powerful tool to help keep you from repeating the pattern of your parents' relationship and their relationship with you. Even now, I find myself attracted to the old patterns, but these days I'm able to catch it early, often before I take any action.

    Last of all, I would say this: don't pity your mother. Pity is destructive and demeaning. It visciates the dignity of the one who is pitied. I know. I have been the object of pity on many occasions, undeserved as it is, and I rehect it. Instead, respect her strength for having borne what she has had to bear and support her in any way you can without compromising who you are.
     
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  8. OP
    soulseeker

    soulseeker Permanent Fixture

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    thanks!!!!!!... yeah i kind of have realized that but didn't come to that kind of idea ..you too deserve to be respected because of what you've been through

    sometimes, i realize that okay .. wow.. i think i'm being too dramatic here ... because there are a lot of families who have worse problems than what i am experiencing..
    so i think i should be kind of thankful that this problem that I have isn't THAT big...

    and oh.. the monkeys.. ahahhaha whitefire loves monkeys too :)

    I hate the feeling of being alone too..especially with family members
    thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!
    i wish there's more LOVE IN THE WORLD

    wow!!! you just described MY FATHER!!!!
    yehey!!!!! we have the same father :) :)
    i think that if he wasn't my father, i would despise him too... but HE IS MY FATHER.. :) :)
    i don't even want to deal with it sometimes..

    so......why are we ALWAYS the same!?!?!?
    awww... you were physically hurt?
    oh......I WAS TOO..
    and it was sooo hurtful and ouchy... my mother used to physically hurt me but now she doesn't do things like that.. my dad verbally abuses me until now...

    i wasn't like punched or anything... i was just...whatever


    i thought i was the only INFJ who didn't like her father...
    i thought INFJs were really lovable creatures..(it even made me doubt that i'm an INFJ)
    yeah i believe in the willing to let you thing... my father is NEVER WILLING to let anyone change him.. OUCH!




    anyways....

    SUPER DUPER DUPER THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU.... i didn't think someone would really reply to this thread because maybe it may require a lot of energy to reenergize if you absorbed the emotions in this thread...

    oh oh oh!!!!! and..... it's kind of like only here that i feel sincere help..even if i don't know you guys in real life... for me, it's better than having no one to talk to at all..OR.. FRIENDS OR PEOPLE HELPING YOU FAKELY. and all...

    so.. really.. THIS IS REALLY A SINCERE AND HONEST THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU!!
    AHHHHH!!!!!! thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    a gazillion thanks!!!!!!!! I'M SORRY IF I'M BEING TOOOOOO EMOTIONAL HERE IN THIS FORUM OR WHATEVER.. MAYBE BECAUSE... NO ONE ELSE IN REAL LIFE KNOWS I'M EMOTIONAL...THEY JUST ALL THINK THAT OH THAT GIRL!!!! THE ONE WHO DANCES AND IS NOISY IN THE CLASSROOM.....

    thanks guys!!!!!!! :m168:
    want to hug!?!?! i'm gonna hug you all!!!!! yey!!!!!! let's all hug each other!!!!!! thanks!!!!!!!!!!

    but thank you:m035: everyone!!!!!!!!!
    :m015:***** big big hug******* :mlove2:
     
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    #8 soulseeker, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
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