Trump will win again | Page 33 | INFJ Forum

Trump will win again

Dopamine said:
yikes. Ok, I get it. I do- I get the fear and the anger, all over. But we can’t do this anymore you guys! We have to reach out. We have to see each other as parts of the same place. The person you may be calling subhuman may be a farmer who we depend on making it happen thanklessly, or the fireman, or the person who responds when we call 911 when our Dad has a heart attack minutes after protesting the police. It may be the doctor or the scientist who has been working double time and relentlessly with both feet shackled and hands tied behind back since March while everyone else is complaining about bars and haircuts. It might be the teacher, or the road repair guy, the mailman, the soldier, grocery stock person, or cafeteria worker. It might be any number of the people who as a whole we all depend on at some important junction in the way our country works and survives. A person you count on in ways you don’t have to consider because they are always there. Maybe it is someone who didn’t have the privilege to get the education you did, to understand the way you do- or maybe there is a perspective that because of your privilege you cannot conceive of yourself.

We haven’t lost faith in our government as much as we have lost faith in each other. We have lost faith that we have reasons for the way we believe and that when push comes to shove though, we are all one country and we will find a way. THIS is what we have to fight against. Joe Biden can’t save us, Donald trump can’t save us- because what we lost was our sense of One Nation. We have lost our American identity, and we gave it up like whores to the sensationalism of CNN and Fox News. We got lazy and lost our way. We blame each other for atrocities that have never come to pass. Quake with fear over extremism that doesn’t have a chance to thrive in our society if we have a sense of community and responsibility towards each other. You have to absolutely resist the concept that any one American is less than another. You have to do it or we will all lose horribly, in unimaginable ways. If you think I am kidding or being idealistic- consider this- we are THE ONLY COUNTRY in the world that refuses to wear masks to save other American lives because the goddamn pandemic has been POLITICIZED. WTF?? Our inability to gather trust and responsibility towards fellow citizens, has the most vulnerable among us DYING at a rate of over a thousand a day. That is the consequences we are reaping because we REFUSE to listen to one another, and instead sit in front of a screen and look for ways to fill ourselves with more evidence with which to hate. We have to stop. We have to. Stop calling each other morons, greedy, stupid, subhuman. Vote for who you vote for but stop stirring the hatred among us. We have to find a way to bridge the divide, if you destroy the other half, YOUR HALF DIES TOO. We are one nation and we need each other. Like it or not, WE NEED EACH OTHER. When you capitulate to those attitudes you have done nothing but shit in your own house. My call was to find a way to stop feeding the divide. It is the most dangerous thing we are doing. It is up to you. It is up to me, no one in the government can make us stop fucking this up as bad as we are. Look around you- as bad as it feels right now to have America as disjointed as it is, turning against each other only ensures it stays bad and spirals to worst.

They chose trump because they no longer had any faith that we would listen to them and care about them. We showed over and over that all we cared about was if they said the right words or made the right gestures. We didn’t care about their poverty and struggle too. We banished them in our minds as ignorant and unimportant because they didn’t act the way we wanted and champion the causes that concerned us. Welp, when it came back on us in reverse, over the past four years when we saw everything we cared about trashed and damaged- how has that felt? I’m asking you to be uncomfortable, very very uncomfortable with that same discomfort forced on others without an open mind towards compromise, being the measure of what you care about concerning your fellow American. We all share this country and I am sick of sharing it with people who hate me and don’t believe in me when I drag exhausted to work to once again face the danger to save your lives. I have no one to blame but myself if I refuse to consider the life and concerns of the people that occupy half of my home. If I refuse to value the life and contribution of my fellow citizen, If I ridicule their fears and values- what can I expect in return??

I am asking you to resist the idea that we can stay divided and survive, I ask you to remember who we used to be when we rolled up our sleeves and found a way to be here together, when we trusted each other as one Nation. It is a LIE- that there are only two extremes. We are better than this. We have to be.
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Well said, but that's a pretty elaborate response to a joke, Dopa, lol.
 
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Deleted member 16771 said:
What would you have done differently?
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Probably nothing from how Trump actually handled it, if I think of a way in which my approach would have differed I'm sure I can just tell you then when I think of it but at the moment I'm perfectly satisfied that he's done a pretty good job with regards to the riots.
 
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Reason said:
Probably nothing from how Trump actually handled it, if I think of a way in which my approach would have differed I'm sure I can just tell you then when I think of it but at the moment I'm perfectly satisfied that he's done a pretty good job with regards to the riots.
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I see.
 
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Deleted member 16771 said:
Well said, but that's a pretty elaborate response to a joke, Dopa, lol.
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i doubt anyone who would feel like they might be included as the butt of the joke feels that it is funny. It is the exact issue. I don’t think you get how bad the divide is here Hos. It’s REALLY serious and has infected everything. Americans actually are very strange and uneasy around eachother now. It is a different country now. The animosity is really dense and permeates almost everything.

we are literally dying over here because we no longer believe in one another. Fact
 
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Dopamine said:
i doubt anyone who would feel like they might be included as the butt of the joke feels that it is funny. It is the exact issue. I don’t think you get how bad the divide is here Hos. It’s REALLY serious and has infected everything. Americans actually are very strange and uneasy around eachother now. It is a different country now. The animosity is really dense and permeates almost everything.
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I don't think anyone was the butt of the joke - in fact that was the point. The usage of 'subhumans' was in an ironic voice. @Cornerstone would never have said anything like that seriously.

Either way, the atmosphere you describe is not good. It reminds me of what it felt like around these parts after Charlie Hebdo.
 
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I don’t think @Cornerstone would have said anything that was meant as harmful really. That hasn’t been my impression. The argument I am trying to make is that we can’t afford to be causal in that way. And if I am going to take one side to task for rhetoric, I’m going to stand up against it from either side. I am not personally against what anyone has said, I am saying what most Americans on either side will tell you- it’s really bad over here and there is not a lot about it that is funny.
 
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Deleted member 16771 said:
I don't think anyone was the butt of the joke - in fact that was the point. The usage of 'subhumans' was in an ironic voice. @Cornerstone would never have said anything like that seriously.

Either way, the atmosphere you describe is not good. It reminds me of what it felt like around these parts after Charlie Hebdo.
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Dopamine said:
I don’t think @Cornerstone would have said anything that was meant as harmful really. That hasn’t been my impression. The argument I am trying to make is that we can’t afford to be causal in that way. And if I am going to take one side to task for rhetoric, I’m going to stand up against it from either side. I am not personally against what anyone has said, I am saying what most Americans on either side will tell you- it’s really bad over here and there is not a lot about it that is funny.
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It's hard for anyone outside of America to see America's problems with a proper lens.
The undertones of everything here have shifted dramatically in the last few years and things have only been made worse by the mishandling of the pandemic, among other things.
America and its citizens need to dig themselves out of the psychology of doubling down. Having outsiders give tongue and cheek input is no longer any kind of salve for most. Things are dire. Change must happen, and it's not on the horizon soon enough.
But it can happen, if its people dig themselves out of this fruitless infighting and unite, as the United States.
 
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Deleted member 16771 said:
I'm not really following your logic that Trump = less riots. His presence alone is inflammatory.
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I don't believe I said that Trump (second term I assume you mean) does equal less riots. I said that the riots make me not like the Democrats because they've been downplaying them for months.

Trump has been constantly sending letters to these mayors offering support and they keep refusing.

I don't think he should invoke the insurrection clause of the constitution and suspend habeas corpus like Abraham Lincoln did. I also don't think he should violate the 10th amendment and just charge in there and illegally arrest people. That would get any arrest thrown out immediately in court and would also get him impeached. I'm no constitutional scholar but I believe that's pretty illegal.
 
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Reason said:
I'm no constitutional scholar but I believe that's pretty illegal.
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The senate would almost never impeach President Trump. Also, I have my doubts about The Washington Examiner as a source for news, but then again it's difficult to find a news source in the U.S that isn't biased in a particular direction: center-right or far-right.

My preferred source for news at the moment is PBS.
 
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Reason said:
Here's it from the horse's mouth
https://twitter.com/tedwheeler/status/1299433988600156160?s=20
View attachment 72204
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Ok, so the "support" denied was the presence of federal law enforcement officials. That's a tough call to make when riots are certainly happening but like the Mayor of Portland, I don't trust President Trump to enforce the law properly.

He is almost certainly unfamiliar with the overwhelming majority of the constitution's contents and federal law itself. He doesn't have a legal background, after all.

I also don't believe (based on his past behavior) that he has the temperament to get the necessary information from those who do have expertise on the constitution.
 
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Dopamine said:
I don’t think @Cornerstone would have said anything that was meant as harmful really. That hasn’t been my impression. The argument I am trying to make is that we can’t afford to be causal in that way. And if I am going to take one side to task for rhetoric, I’m going to stand up against it from either side. I am not personally against what anyone has said, I am saying what most Americans on either side will tell you- it’s really bad over here and there is not a lot about it that is funny.
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Yeah, the joke was just a play on words because I found 'treat people like humans' funny in its redundancy if taken literally. Obviously, I knew he meant something along the lines of 'treat people humanely' and the 'subhumans' I was imagining were literal sewer mutants when I wrote that.

The long post was a good one though, you're bang on. I think it's easy to look at the USA and say 'they're too far gone', and with respect I think that's true, but I think your attitude is a sensible one about community etc, that's true anywhere at any time. Many European countries have had their 'golden age' and then it ends. The USA's golden age is in its death throes but I suspect that needs to be accepted to make it as painless as possible. Looking at how other nations have handled their fall from glory would maybe give insight into the situation in the US.
 
Pin said:
Ok, so the "support" denied was the presence of federal law enforcement officials. That's a tough call to make when riots are certainly happening but like the Mayor of Portland, I don't trust President Trump to enforce the law properly.

He is almost certainly unfamiliar with the overwhelming majority of the constitution's contents and federal law itself. He doesn't have a legal background, after all.

I also don't believe (based on his past behavior) that he has the temperament to get the necessary information from those who do have expertise on the constitution.
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We'll you're in luck because he hasn't sent anything because he can't. The most he's able to do is task people with prosecuting federal crimes.
 
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Then you have stories like this
https://www.wbay.com/2020/08/31/neenah-man-arrested-at-green-bay-protest-has-ties-to-antifa/
Neenah man arrested at Green Bay protest has ties to Antifa
Matthew Banta is also charged with pointing a loaded gun at a police officer during a protest in Waupaca County

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WBAY) - A Neenah man had a flamethrower, smoke grenades and fireworks during a demonstration in Green Bay Saturday night, according to police and prosecutors.

Matthew Banta, 23, is charged with obstructing an officer and two counts of felony bail jumping.

The criminal complaint says Banta “is known to be a violent Antifa member who incites violence in otherwise relatively peaceful protests.” Police say he’s known as “Commander Red.”

And here's my favorite part:
Action 2 News asked members of Black Lives United-Green Bay (BLU), a community group with a mission to unite folks of color and allies, if they are discouraged when others use otherwise peaceful protests as a way to incite violence.

“BLU is not discouraged by the way folks are grieving...we are in this together. We don’t see rioting as taking away from our message because it actually reinforces the state of emergency that we are in. Folks out in the streets screaming #BlackLivesMatter and their names - we see you and the risk you are taking on behalf of all of us. We honor the lives of Black people taken from us by law enforcement. We say their names and continue to hold our government, elected officials, allies and adversaries accountable to these murders and attempted murders until there are policies passed that uplift Black folks and invest in our communities. We will eradicate white supremacy. We will build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by state and vigilantes. It is our duty,” reads a statement from the group
 
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Pin said:
Are you referring to federal attorneys?
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Federal courts and federal agents. As I mentioned earlier he recently deputized state police to arrest people for damaging federal property. He has to do this because the District Attorneys in these cities are just letting people go without charging them.
 
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Reason said:
Federal courts and federal agents. As I mentioned earlier he recently deputized state police to arrest people for damaging federal property. He has to do this because the District Attorneys in these cities are just letting people go without charging them.
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That's fair, credit where credit is due. He's justified in doing that when federal property is being damaged.
 
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