Trump will win again | Page 32 | INFJ Forum

Trump will win again

I hear your point.

But these type of catchphrases are being used (by both republicans and democrats, btw) because they resonate with people. And these people are voters. And politicians design their policies based on their potential voter base i.e. who they are trying to attract.
So these phrases have a bigger effect than I think we might realize. They change the conversation, always slowly driving down the conversation, (which affects policy) bit by bit.

(I mean, it would be lovely to be idealistic and think that politicians are driven by some kind of idealistic vision of a better America.
I just don't believe it.)

And THIS is why we as Americans have to resist believing the worst we are being fed about one another. We have to resist as citizens, the idea that half of the country Is selfish towards a particular ideology and truly wants others to suffer. I don’t believe it. I have very close friends that I served with, on “the other side” of the political divide. I KNOW they are good people. I KNOW they want the best for the country. Having said that I also know that their attitudes towards “liberals -lib tards” are extremely warped and biased, as are my liberal friends against conservatives.

None of what the media shows or the politics in our country represent the America I know. We have to resist the pull of hate and division and learn to listen to each other again with empathy and trust. We just have to do it.
 
And THIS is why we as Americans have to resist believing the worst we are being fed about one another. We have to resist as citizens, the idea that half of the country Is selfish towards a particular ideology and truly wants others to suffer. I don’t believe it. I have very close friends that I served with, on “the other side” of the political divide. I KNOW they are good people. I KNOW they want the best for the country. Having said that I also know that their attitudes towards “liberals -lib tards” are extremely warped and biased, as are my liberal friends against conservatives.

None of what the media shows or the politics in our country represent the America I know. We have to resist the pull of hate and division and learn to listen to each other again with empathy and trust. We just have to do it.

I agree.
I don't think people (in general) want people they disagree with to suffer (I hope not!).
I also agree with you that most individuals truly want what's best for the country, but with different beliefs regarding how that can be achieved (and different ideas of what that might look like). At the same time, I think politics and the media does, on some level, reflect what's actually going on. It's not so simple; there's this cyclical relationship between the media, politics and public opinion.
 
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The irony of woke supremacy and race ideology, I will never forget the one incident years ago where one of these woke accused a person of mixed race who is a descendant of holocaust survivors of being a secret nazi.

 
This what about-isms and applying a single set of actions to an entire group of people is the exact ignorance and sickness that I am referring to that is destroying the country and causing an extreme pollution of the American people. Thank you for this fine example Rose.
 
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None of what the media shows or the politics in our country represent the America I know. We have to resist the pull of hate and division and learn to listen to each other again with empathy and trust. We just have to do it.
This what about-isms and applying a single set of actions to an entire group of people is the exact ignorance and sickness that I am referring to that is destroying the country and causing an extreme pollution of the American people. Thank you for this fine example Rose.

Totally on point here. We need to treat people like humans, not adversarial objects.
 
Is this person associated with the democratic party or is she just a random crazy person?

If she isn't, I don't get your point. It would be different if an actual politician tweeted that.
My point is that the Democrats have insisted for 3 months that these people do not exist and that it's all right wingers being arrested. I've seen the mugshots of those arrested and their arrest records. They're antifa, many with hammer and sickle avatars on twitter and many more with prior anti- police or just anti- white violence in their records in association with other antifa beatings.

They do exist, they're on video burning down cities, beating and shooting people, and now in Oakland apparently chanting "Death to America".

Biden and the Democrats now have to switch to condemn the rioting because it's effecting the polls but it's too little too late. They've run cover for insurrectionists for far too long.
 
I'm hoping this election inspires some younger candidates with an eye on the future America to run next term.

I hate to admit a prediction, however, in light of current affairs, us anti-cheetos best hunker down for the next four years. It's going to be rough.
 
Trump is no more responsible for antifa than Lincoln was for the Confederacy. These racial supremacists are adults who are responsible for their terrible actions.
Trump is absolutely responsible for his response, that's the point, not this strawman.

Chamberlain wasn't responsible for Hitler, but he was responsible for his response (appeasement).

At some point you've got to realise the unfathomable weakness of the man masked beneath his ridiculous rhetoric.

Not to mention his stupidity. Personally I can't stand how his administration has fucked up long-laid US geostrategic plans just to make small political bank domestically. I don't know how you can back an opportunist populist like this, Reason.
 
I also agree with you that most individuals truly want what's best for the country, but with different beliefs regarding how that can be achieved (and different ideas of what that might look like)

I have to disagree with this
Most individuals truly want what's best for them and they try to dominate their beliefs to all the others and there is the problem, if they wanted what's best for the country they would be more flexible
Republicans are stuck because they don't question their beliefs and liberals are so naiv to believe that democracy will bring them enlightenment. They are both wrong.
You cannot go as a liberal in a Mississippi family, smash their door and tell them.. from now on you go green because i know what's best for you, its like giving a car in a 5 year old child and tell him, you will drive the way i do, he can do it but in the next 15 years of development!
And also you cannot go as a conservative in a liberal house and say, my beliefs have worked for so many years and it stays this way because i know best. Really???
The best approach is to understand the other's side beliefs, to walk on their shoes, to see their issues

Trump will win, unfortunately the US is not developed enough for a very advanced president
 
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Trump is absolutely responsible for his response, that's the point, not this strawman.

Chamberlain wasn't responsible for Hitler, but he was responsible for his response (appeasement).

At some point you've got to realise the unfathomable weakness of the man masked beneath his ridiculous rhetoric.

Not to mention his stupidity. Personally I can't stand how his administration has fucked up long-laid US geostrategic plans just to make small political bank domestically. I don't know how you can back an opportunist populist like this, Reason.
What specifically would you have wanted Trump to do about the riots?
 
What specifically would you have wanted Trump to do about the riots?
Pick your poison:

1) Conciliatory - He should have gone out there and met with the protestors to address their concerns, rather than hiding in the White House. Show his face; baduc leader stuff, &c. You might say, well this would've been something for state governors to do, but modern federal systems are largely administrative fictions, since most issues play out on a national scale as if it were a unitary state. This was about 'The' Police, and 'The' POTUS.

2) Repressive - a much more immediate and decicisive deployment of force would've been required to nip these protests in the bud, rather than mere twitter threats to that effect.

In the absence of either approach, you basically got no response.
 
Pick your poison:

1) Conciliatory - He should have gone out there and met with the protestors to address their concerns, rather than hiding in the White House. Show his face; baduc leader stuff, &c. You might say, well this would've been something for state governors to do, but modern federal systems are largely administrative fictions, since most issues play out on a national scale as if it were a unitary state. This was about 'The' Police, and 'The' POTUS.

2) Repressive - a much more immediate and decicisive deployment of force would've been required to nip these protests in the bud, rather than mere twitter threats to that effect.

In the absence of either approach, you basically got no response.
So you would have preferred deployment of the national guard or something like his recent move to deputize state police to arrest people who attack federal courthouses?

Edit: over what Trump actually did I mean
 
So you would have preferred deployment of the national guard or something like his recent move to deputize state police to arrest people who attack federal courthouses?

Edit: over what Trump actually did I mean
Lol.

I would have preferred option 1, personally, but the man himself is too divisive for that to have worked particularly well without a miracle development of sincerity. He could've done it, I suppose, if the execution was nailed.

What would you have done differently?
 
Lol.

I would have preferred option 1, personally, but the man himself is too divisive for that to have worked particularly well without a miracle development of sincerity. He could've done it, I suppose, if the execution was nailed.

What would you have done differently?
I'll answer your question but first in the force option you mentioned what specifically would you have liked him to do?
 
What? Even the subhumans?!

yikes. Ok, I get it. I do- I get the fear and the anger, all over. But we can’t do this anymore you guys! We have to reach out. We have to see each other as parts of the same place. The person you may be calling subhuman may be a farmer who we depend on making it happen thanklessly, or the fireman, or the person who responds when we call 911 when our Dad has a heart attack minutes after protesting the police. It may be the doctor or the scientist who has been working double time and relentlessly with both feet shackled and hands tied behind back since March while everyone else is complaining about bars and haircuts. It might be the teacher, or the road repair guy, the mailman, the soldier, grocery stock person, or cafeteria worker. It might be any number of the people who as a whole we all depend on at some important junction in the way our country works and survives. A person you count on in ways you don’t have to consider because they are always there. Maybe it is someone who didn’t have the privilege to get the education you did, to understand the way you do- or maybe there is a perspective that because of your privilege you cannot conceive of yourself.

We haven’t lost faith in our government as much as we have lost faith in each other. We have lost faith that we have reasons for the way we believe and that when push comes to shove though, we are all one country and we will find a way. THIS is what we have to fight against. Joe Biden can’t save us, Donald trump can’t save us- because what we lost was our sense of One Nation. We have lost our American identity, and we gave it up like whores to the sensationalism of CNN and Fox News. We got lazy and lost our way. We blame each other for atrocities that have never come to pass. Quake with fear over extremism that doesn’t have a chance to thrive in our society if we have a sense of community and responsibility towards each other. You have to absolutely resist the concept that any one American is less than another. You have to do it or we will all lose horribly, in unimaginable ways. If you think I am kidding or being idealistic- consider this- we are THE ONLY COUNTRY in the world that refuses to wear masks to save other American lives because the goddamn pandemic has been POLITICIZED. WTF?? Our inability to gather trust and responsibility towards fellow citizens, has the most vulnerable among us DYING at a rate of over a thousand a day. That is the consequences we are reaping because we REFUSE to listen to one another, and instead sit in front of a screen and look for ways to fill ourselves with more evidence with which to hate. We have to stop. We have to. Stop calling each other morons, greedy, stupid, subhuman. Vote for who you vote for but stop stirring the hatred among us. We have to find a way to bridge the divide, if you destroy the other half, YOUR HALF DIES TOO. We are one nation and we need each other. Like it or not, WE NEED EACH OTHER. When you capitulate to those attitudes you have done nothing but shit in your own house. My call was to find a way to stop feeding the divide. It is the most dangerous thing we are doing. It is up to you. It is up to me, no one in the government can make us stop fucking this up as bad as we are. Look around you- as bad as it feels right now to have America as disjointed as it is, turning against each other only ensures it stays bad and spirals to worst.

They chose trump because they no longer had any faith that we would listen to them and care about them. We showed over and over that all we cared about was if they said the right words or made the right gestures. We didn’t care about their poverty and struggle too. We banished them in our minds as ignorant and unimportant because they didn’t act the way we wanted and champion the causes that concerned us. Welp, when it came back on us in reverse, over the past four years when we saw everything we cared about trashed and damaged- how has that felt? I’m asking you to be uncomfortable, very very uncomfortable with that same discomfort forced on others without an open mind towards compromise, being the measure of what you care about concerning your fellow American. We all share this country and I am sick of sharing it with people who hate me and don’t believe in me when I drag exhausted to work to once again face the danger to save your lives. I have no one to blame but myself if I refuse to consider the life and concerns of the people that occupy half of my home. If I refuse to value the life and contribution of my fellow citizen, If I ridicule their fears and values- what can I expect in return??

I am asking you to resist the idea that we can stay divided and survive, I ask you to remember who we used to be when we rolled up our sleeves and found a way to be here together, when we trusted each other as one Nation. It is a LIE- that there are only two extremes. We are better than this. We have to be.
 
I'll answer your question but first in the force option you mentioned what specifically would you have liked him to do?
That option was a bit of a platitude, really, but it tends to work in the short term.

Yes, I suppose I mean a mass deployment of the National Guard much earlier.


I'm not really following your logic that Trump = less riots. His presence alone is inflammatory.