Trump Suggests Delaying US Election in November | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

Trump Suggests Delaying US Election in November

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by acd, Jul 30, 2020.

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  1. OP
    acd

    acd Well-known member

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    He has lied and flouted Democratic norms and the constitution since elected. To me, that is important.

    I have never thought Trump was fit for office based on the temperament he displayed while campaigning and that's no secret. He hasn't done anything to convince me otherwise, either. Despite wanting to be wrong about him, he quickly set the tone on inauguration day by lying about the size of the crowd. He has only continued to reinforce the idea. I give people a lot of the benefit of the doubt when they screw up but not when one is the president and continues to play out this pattern.

    His stating he would question the results of the election (without any real proof or case that there is rampant voter fraud) is damaging to the credibility of our system. We don't benefit from that. If he is truly concerned he should be taking steps to ensure election security (mail in ballots security) rather than suggesting unprecedented delay. He chooses instead to exaggerate focus on voter fraud (concerns not founded by his own voting integrity commission). To me, Trump has not done anything to establish credibility on this by consistently flouting democratic norms. (As well as lying about stupid and petty things as mentioned above.)

    Just a few examples are "joking" (with people like Xi Jinping especially) about staying in office, belittling the first amendment (Condemning Kaepernick kneeling in protest and labeling him un American is one prominent example. Also sending in the military to shut down a protest for a photo op (Which retired Marine Corps General Mattis even criticized) claiming he has total authority in reference to states managing pandemic (10th amendment); ending lockdowns and forcing state schools and economies to open. It's up to the states on when to close/open (which I will say has probably not helped in managing pandemic as we have an imbalanced approach as a whole. I do think the federal gov. could have acted sooner to address pandemic or offered more consistent support to states but that is a whole other conversation. And it is still an example of him either flouting 10th amendment or just being ignorant.) I could go on and on but this is off the top of my head.

    So when he suggests delaying an election, questioning the results (if he loses) and spends years "joking" about staying in office, I think it's reasonable to be concerned.

    I think our system was set up specifically to prevent someone like Trump from taking total power. Because he demonstrates either little understanding of the framework or little respect for it. So, at this time I do not think he will be successful in what appears to be his autocratic ideations. But I do think he is just a symptom of much much deeper issue
    in the US. He won't be the last. When it comes to Trump, many supporters demonstrate a lack of concern and excuse him or wave him off at every turn or they support him in these leanings. When he is gone the problem will still be there because he is the symptom of deeper issues. And to me it's a problem of complacency in maintaining our framework and way or an out and out flouting of it- those opinions now may be a minority but it grows if we are complacent. I'm not sure what the solution is exactly. But bringing attention to the issue is one thing we can do-- voicing that we do not accept this shift in our country and it needs to reverse.

    And whether he would be successful in overstaying his term to me doesn't matter. I think it's screwed up to even have a president who flirts with the idea in the first place and questions our framework to bring doubt to attempt to legitimize his autocratic leanings. But I think it would be reasonable to be concerned even if it was a president I liked who made such comments. So I took issue with attempts to minimize this due to others complacency.
     
    #101 acd, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  2. Tamagochi

    Tamagochi Sushi Destroyer
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    @acd I can definitely agree with you that Trump is just a symptom of deeper systemic problems. As to what they actually are - that's another topic.

    I also notice a projection: you accuse Trump of disrespect and that he will not be able accept a defeat in the election. But it's actually you, who's unable to accept him as the president because he does not fit your ideal image.
     
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  3. OP
    acd

    acd Well-known member

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    I accept him as president. I don't like it but I accept it. I'm basing my view on whether he'd accept defeat on his own words. It's something he stated leading up to 2016 election as well.
     
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  4. In the Wings

    In the Wings Community Member

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    To broaden the discussion a bit: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/...il-faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html

    There are decent reasons not to have everyone mail in, though I'm still learning about this and thus am unsure how decent they are. I'd want to know all the groups of people that are likely to face some issue, some of which the article mentions. My gut feeling is that greater use of absentee ballots will hurt poor people and young people (since they would be more likely to have been foreclosed on or evicted), which will hurt democrats if anything, but given that old people would also be hurt by it, it might be a net gain.
     
    #104 In the Wings, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  5. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Well-known member

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    To add to this, I had mail in ballot registration sent home within the past couple of weeks. They got the women of the household correct but screwed up on the men. My mom said she did not receive a ballot registration card for my dad who passed away in March. They got that right.

    The USPS has huge potential for abuse from all sides.

    I'd be onboard with digital voting from home but the federal and state IT departments don't employ the best or brightest folk and there too hacking can occur. We'd be best farming it out to a big name data security company with the condition that all work stays in country and gargantuan fines along with years of jail time can be imposed for any breech of security.
     
    #105 MoonFlier, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  6. In the Wings

    In the Wings Community Member

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    Wonder if you could do a "vote by zoom" thing. Obviously there'd be a lot of waiting involved, and there'd still be people dropped due to an inability to understand the internet, lacking an internet connection, etc., but it'd make less of a dent than mail-ins, and possibly lower chances of fraud.
     
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  7. Chickensoup

    Chickensoup Community Member

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    Trump just appointed a campaign fundraiser to head the USPS. So, we are not talking about just harmless words here.

    Even the suggestion, in any form, that people be deprived of their vote - is a threat. It’s not a crime, but it is a threat. So, it doesn’t matter that it’s a low probability event.
     
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  8. OP
    acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Damn paywall I can't read it. There are 5 states that offer automatic mail in or automatic mail in application: Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington. However, in person voting is still available in all of these states. I'd have to look into each state to see how it works/issues. Homelessness is a barrier to voting. I just did a quick search and see Oregon let's people put office of county clerk for registration.

    I'm in Indiana and I was able to vote by mail in the primary if I requested a mail in ballot by a certain date ahead of the election. No issues with my ballot.

    I think having options is good. If people want to or need to vote by mail in a pandemic we should ensure they can do so securely. If people want to vote in person we should make sure they can do so safely and securely.
     
    #108 acd, Aug 3, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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  9. Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    I don't have much interest in US politics, but just on the topic of mail in voting, there was a mail in referendum here a while ago. My entire apartment complex didn't receive it. It turns out someone stole and filled in thousands of ballots.

    Anyhow, that's my experience with mail in ballots: I didn't get to cast one.
     
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  10. Roses In The Vineyard

    Roses In The Vineyard Community Member

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    Where have we seen something like this before oh wait the global south where warlords and dictators had the run of the mill that ultimately wrecked nations. I wonder how much Canada and Mexico like swarms of refuges.

     
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  11. Chickensoup

    Chickensoup Community Member

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    Does this qualify as “emotionally based speculation”? #justaskingforafriend
     
  12. Sandie33

    Sandie33 Love Often & Absolutely ♡
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    I won't be leaving, but he sure will.
     
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  13. Wildfire

    Wildfire Community Member

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    First I want to say that I appreciate this thread @acd and that I share your concerns. I really don’t trust anything that Trump says or does, and I agree that his words about postponing the election aren’t benign.

    It seems obvious to me that the option for more people to vote by mail would be especially beneficial now, while we’re navigating this pandemic, but I have real concerns regarding the post office’s ability to perform their part of the job as effectively as they have in the past, if at all.

    I have family and friends who work for the postal system, both in management and as mail carriers, and they are all experiencing some version of the same thing. Specifically, they are being forced to abandon the core mission of every address, every day, and even first class mail is no longer prioritized and handled in the same way. There isn’t the same effort to guarantee that our mail and packages arrive within the time frames we use to be able to count on. Internally, it’s a mess, and there is nothing to suggest that the new and improved, more efficient system that Trumps appointee promised will be in place any time soon, and definitely not by November. Instead the backlog is getting greater and greater, and delays are getting longer and longer. It's real and it's crazy.

    I've been voting by mail for years here in California. Initially under the provisions of an absentee ballot, and then under a general provision when our county adopted a mail in option for all registered voters. That option was supposed to go statewide and counties were working to make that happen. So while we have advancements being made in one part of the system, another part of the system is failing.

    It’s such a mess.
     
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  14. Chickensoup

    Chickensoup Community Member

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    If Trump can’t deliver a safe and secure way to run elections, within the same set of rules every other president has had to abide by, then he should resign.
     
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  15. dragulagu

    dragulagu Galactic Explorer

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  16. Chickensoup

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  17. Chickensoup

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    I also want to drive home the point I made about the ramifications of a Republican led Congress right now.

    The stimulus package from the GOP in the Senate would have passed as it was proposed. So that means $1T on an over-stuffed defense and small-business spending bill basically. With $200 thrown in for an extension to unemployment benefits that are about to run out.

    I’m actually understating things because the proposal from the GOP in the Senate would likely to have been worse.
     
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  18. dragulagu

    dragulagu Galactic Explorer

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/us/politics/trump-postpone-election.html

    It's Trump's "shtick" to come up with all kinds of ridiculous statements..

    Though you have a point there.
     
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  19. noisebloom

    noisebloom theory conspirer
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    Speculation cannot be factual in and of itself, because it concerns events that have not transpired. Speculation can be based on evidence, however. Ultimately, predicting the actions of behaviors of others is difficult, but it doesn't mean the discussion isn't worth any merit.

    Let's consider the premise of this very thread: "Trump suggests delaying US Election". This premise actually is a fact, as the president stated it himself.

    The discussion in this thread then went on to suggest that Trump will do what he can to stay in office, that America would be better if he left, etc. These are opinions, but there is ample evidence to support the former point, e.g. the fact that he has repeatedly joked about staying in office longer than the lawful two terms (a strange recurring joke that I don't recall other presidents making), his election-rigging claims in 2016, and a history of threatening to sue the media when they portray him poorly. These behaviors most likely indicate that he is insecure about being "lowered" in status, at the very least, moreso than any president American has had in the past two decades.

    Is this speculation enough cause for fear that he won't leave office normally? Maybe. Fear isn't rational. Most people that see a bear will back away, but is it reasonable that an unprovoked bear would attack a human? Implying that people who express their fears and frustration are not welcome to do so is not a great attitude to have.

    Trump's image is so far removed from anything America has recently experienced that it makes perfect sense to me that it's hard for people to accept him. Personally, I have certain expectations for leaders, so to see these expectations defied in so many regards is difficult for me to deal with, and I imagine the same is true for many Americans. I kind of hoped/expected Trump would be a modern-day LBJ - a crass, domineering personality, and he kind of comes off that way, but from what I understand, LBJ had an unwavering confidence about him, and Trump has turned out to be the opposite, taking extreme offense to any sort of criticism leveled at him.
     
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  20. Aquila Aeternus

    Aquila Aeternus Community Member

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    Well, y’know what they say, praise the Emperor
     
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