Toxic People type? Have you already met one?

[Scofield]

hi everyone,

Like I've said in my introduction, I'm french so I apoloize in advance for the mistakes i'll make, you will surely judge my "english" awful :lol:

Well I have to say that I really like to study psychology and people in general and I've read a really interesting book called "Energy Vampires". That book talks about people in society who really find pleasurable to make another person suffer but who are paradoxically well integrated with society.
They are the bullies we have all seen at school or at work, or even in family for some.

And I have a theory (a modest one, I'm not a scientist ) that we, INFJs, are the favorite targets of people like that. The fact that we are introverted and quite sensitive could make us seem fragile (at the eyes of the bullies only! even if they're all wrong).

So, my question is, have you also met many of those "type of people"?

If yes, how did you react to them?


I'd like that we share our opinion and our experience of these people for those who have met some of them.
Thanks

 

[Satya]

I knew a toxic ENTJ once. It was a rather horrific experience. She acted all sweet, but at the same time, she was extremely manipulative and deceptive. Even if I talked to her only for a brief moment, I would always feel worse afterward. It was weird, because I really thought it was all in my head, even when others were complaining, and I had to actually catch her in a lie before I could believe there was a person who purposely be that cruel. I told a therapist about her actions, and he said that she fit all the criteria for being sadistic.

 

[Scofield]

I knew a toxic ENTJ once. It was a rather horrific experience. She acted all sweet, but at the same time, she was extremely manipulative and deceptive. Even if I talked to her only for a brief moment, I would always feel worse afterward. It was weird, because I really thought it was all in my head, even when others were complaining, and I had to actually catch her in a lie before I could believe there was a person who purposely be that cruel. I told a therapist about her actions, and he said that she fit all the criteria for being sadistic.

I understand well what you talk about. And I've read that the fact that we think "it's all in our head" is their main weapon against us.

Another interesting book is "In sheep's clothing" where all types of deceivers are analysed.

What often astonishes us is the fact that these people can be very cruel and be all smiling and laughing around in front of other people. What make them seem social and nice people.

 

[Shaz]

There was a girl like that in my school. She was EXTJ. But it's a small school and most people ended up realizing how she was because of things she didn't hide well enough I guess.

Wouldn't INFPs be even more prone to be targets?

 

[sumone]

It's a really good idea to learn about manipulation techniques but more importantly to understand yourself, what your triggers and vulnerable spots are. There are people who can read you like a book, sometimes instantly and if they are so inclined will push all your hot buttons and watch you dance. Sometimes it's just for entertainment and other times they do it to get something from you.

 

[greenapple]

I think INFJs get it worse than many other types. Many of the INFJs I know seem to have a strong urge to help/improve people.
They stick around manipulative people way to long because they feel they are able to help them see the error of their ways.
Many of them seem to recognize negative people through intuition and experience but cant help themselves.

 

[Scofield]

There was a girl like that in my school. She was EXTJ. But it's a small school and most people ended up realizing how she was because of things she didn't hide well enough I guess.

Wouldn't INFPs be even more prone to be targets?

Oh, it had to be so nice to be a witness of people realizing her true personality.

Usually, these people have such a social experience that they know how to never be discovered or how to turn the tables and save face.

It's a really good idea to learn about manipulation techniques but more importantly to understand yourself, what your triggers and vulnerable spots are. There are people who can read you like a book, sometimes instantly and if they are so inclined will push all your hot buttons and watch you dance. Sometimes it's just for entertainment and other times they do it to get something from you.

Really like the words in bold text. So true!
And with these people, what I like to do is to assume complete formlessness. To be a screen of smoke, without any solid point to attack.

I'm a big fan of Sun-Tzu, Alexander the Great , and all others great strategists and I think that technique works wonderful in social situations. I make them aware that they're only attacking air, they never can touch me or manipulate me.
:twisted:

I think INFJs get it worse than many other types. Many of the INFJs I know seem to have a strong urge to help/improve people.
They stick around manipulative people way to long because they feel they are able to help them see the error of their ways.
Many of them seem to recognize negative people through intuition and experience but cant help themselves.

Totally agree with you.
Social experts advise to use "assertiveness" as the best weapon against what they call "toxic people" but my experience taught me that it's not really the best technique.
Because the smartest people can make you seem bad or impolite when you're just being assertive and want to assert your rights.

In my own opinion, I found better techniques to cope with them.
:twisted:

 

[Entyqua]

OOOH this is so perfect for me....I dont know the types of these people but YES i have me them they could drain the room of ALL energy and not just one specific personality type...Extroverts and introverts alike would be completely devoid of energy after talking with these people...

The first one pulled me into her life by preying on my giving nature and desire to help the underdog...So I started trying to help her and slowly i started helping her monetarily and when child services came to her door i vouched for her...every time i was with her i felt devoid of all emotion and energy ...eventually the relationship became so toxic for me (and others) so much so that my intuition didn't pick up a very serious and scary individual..her husband. 6 months after I met this person her husband raped and killed a 5 year old girl. because i was constantly devoid of energy and emotion from this energy vampire...My intuition didn't kick in till i stopped seeing her which was 2 weeks before the girl went missing....When i saw the girl went missing my intuition finally remembered the creepy husband and I thought to myself...It was him...I didn't say anything of course because i had no basis except for a creepy feeling...sure enough they found the girl in their basement...and all along I just knew it...

There is another person..i dont get the feeling that she preys on my giving nature but being in the same room with her drains me to the point i have a migrain headache....

Again I dont know types..

 

[entjForever]

I knew a toxic ENTJ once. It was a rather horrific experience. She acted all sweet, but at the same time, she was extremely manipulative and deceptive. Even if I talked to her only for a brief moment, I would always feel worse afterward. It was weird, because I really thought it was all in my head, even when others were complaining, and I had to actually catch her in a lie before I could believe there was a person who purposely be that cruel. I told a therapist about her actions, and he said that she fit all the criteria for being sadistic.

Are you sure they are ENTJ, this is not typical ENTJ behavior. Its more like a ENTP to do something like that. You can tell the difference by if the person is well organized, and their punctuality. ENTJ hate to be late and they also hate personal conflict. Sometimes ENTJ gets bullied cause they avoid personal conflict, or they might leave a relationship when there is too much fighting. Of all the types ENTJ has the highest emotional iq. I think most people mistake us for ENTP.

http://www.personalitypathways.com/arti ... ence2.html
:
In a the recent issue of the Bulletin for Psychological Type (Vol. 29, No.3 2006), one of the authors, Henry “Dick” Thompson (2006, p. 18), reported on some of his research into EI and Type. One finding I found quite interesting was that of the 5 personality types with the highest overall EQ score, three preferred Feeling and two preferred Thinking. In fact the top 2 were ENTJ and ESTJ ! (followed by ENFJ, ESFP, and ENFP). Of the 5 personality types with the lowest overall EQ score, three were Feeling types and two were Thinking types. And surprisingly, the bottom two were Feeling types: ISFJ and INFP! People looking for a correlation between EQ and Feeling won’t find it in Thompson’s research! About the only conclusion Thompson seemed willing to risk from this study was it appears that the EQ measures have a bias towards Extraversion.

You will rarely find a ENTJ in a fight unless to defend someone, but they will back down most time conflict arise because its wasting energy and to start one is unthinkable.

But they like intellectual discussion(ie impersonal conflict), so they would debate politic or religion.

 

[Shai Gar]

Doesn't sound like ANY ENTJs I know...

And that girl doesn't sound anything like me, an ENTP

 

[entjForever]

If you notice I quoted from a scientific journal. Most people just think what they think without any statistics.
But check out what the other ENTJ on this site said:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=418

"I am about as Idealistic as I can get, I see the potential in everyone and understand that everyone has their place in the world; optimistic is the only way to be, and I would never intentionally take away someone’s confidence."-safety

Bullying is just something ENTJ dont do, manipulating maybe but no bullying. Most people will say we are very charming.
I think most ENTJ would have figured out you can get more bees with honey than with vinegar. Also people dont naturally follow bullies.

Go to MBTI central and see how much verbal personal conflict ENTJ gets into. NONE. We might get into conflict about
some intellectual topic but avoid personal conflict.

 

[Shai Gar]

If you notice I quoted from a scientific journal. Most people just think what they think without any statistics.
But check out what the other ENTJ on this site said:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=418

"I am about as Idealistic as I can get, I see the potential in everyone and understand that everyone has their place in the world; optimistic is the only way to be, and I would never intentionally take away someone’s confidence."-safety

Bullying is just something ENTJ dont do, manipulating maybe but no bullying. Most people will say we are very charming.
I think most ENTJ would have figured out you can get more bees with honey than with vinegar. Also people dont naturally follow bullies.

Go to MBTI central and see how much verbal personal conflict ENTJ gets into. NONE. We might get into conflict about
some intellectual topic but avoid personal conflict.

actually, you get more flies with balsamic vinegar than with honey... just saying...

 

[entjForever]

actually, you get more flies with balsamic vinegar than with honey... just saying...

focus.
All I was saying its more logical that a entj would charm you than bully you. EQ(Emotional quotient) has direct correlation to corporate success which can explain why entj climb ladders so easily.

But think about it who would want to naturally follow a bully?

 

[Shaz]

Well, the toxic girl I knew was definitely ETJ. I really can't see HOW an ESTJ would get a higher emotional intelligence score than most types.

Of courses tests are very different from one another. I tried finding the bulletin for psychological types issue with the article in question, but the pdf link won't work. It's a shame because I would have been interested in reading what the test was actually based on. I'm pretty sure it must have been some corporate manager orientated test, mainly focused on how you deal with a team, how to master your emotions and stuff like that. It's the only way those types could have been up the list, and an INFP down - not letting your emotions take control, blabla, which is an important thing, but can be also negative when you avoid them too much (in yourself but also others).

My ENTJ brother certainly doesn't avoid conflict when necessary - not near as much as the rest of my family (all Fs). He is extremely good at convincing people, his rhetoric is always spot on, he doesn't get affected by people's reaction. He will always argue even when he knows he's wrong, because he enjoys it I think. He's not the kind of guy who will be able to console someone. He is good at motivating people, and very optimistic and enthusiastic, but when he gives me advices he does it from his point of view, without putting himself in my shoes. I don't think he's that good at it. So I take some and leave some.

He certainly doesn't look for conflict though. But ultimately who does? STPs? (actually my ISTP uncle does look for it easily. Mh.)

edit : By the way, I found that on some random blog. Thought it could be interesting to show how many directions a test could take - ultimately you can find many different faces to what can be called emotional intelligence :

Self Oriented EQ Skills

* ISTJ and ISFJ types: Naturally inclined to recognize emotional sensations in the body (My neck is tight and sore.)
* INTJ and INFJ types: Naturally inclined to identify the context/meaning of the emotion (I’m pushing myself beyond my limits.)
* ISFP and INFP: Naturally inclined to identify an appropriate emotional response (I need to take care of myself.)
* ISTP and INTP: Naturally inclined to match the emotion with the situation (I set my timer to take a 15 minute break every hour I work at the computer.)

Other Oriented EQ Skills

* ESTP and ESFP types: Naturally inclined to recognize other emotions (Suzy’s lip is quivering and her eyes are tearing.)
* ENTP and ENFP types: Naturally inclined to anticipate other’s emotions (Every time Suzy has to give an oral report she feels overwhelmed and anxious.)
* ESTJ and ENTJ types: Naturally inclined to evaluate the emotional needs of others (Suzy needs practice and support in speaking in front of a group.)
* ESFJ and ENFJ types: Naturally inclined to demonstrate appropriate emotions in interpersonal behavior (Suzy needs a hug, a sympathetic ear, and some encouragement.)

 

[entjForever]

My ENTJ brother certainly doesn't avoid conflict when necessary - not near as much as the rest of my family (all Fs). He is extremely good at convincing people, his rhetoric is always spot on, he doesn't get affected by people's reaction. He will always argue even when he knows he's wrong, because he enjoys it I think. He's not the kind of guy who will be able to console someone. He is good at motivating people, and very optimistic and enthusiastic, but when he gives me advices he does it from his point of view, without putting himself in my shoes. I don't think he's that good at it. So I take some and leave some.

He certainly doesn't look for conflict though. But ultimately who does? STPs? (actually my ISTP uncle does look for it easily. Mh.)

I was going to ask how much conflict does he start, then I realized you said he doesn't look for conflict. ENTJ dont start conflict and by conflict I mean personal ones. But impersonal conflict yes. So, your bro might get into alot of clash but what are the clashes about?

And its my personal belief NTP looks for conflict, read thru the boards on this site and mbti and you will see who has the most troll-ish behavior.(INTP then ENTP) Too them it might just be play or what not, but that belief is not shared by anyone.


Or maybe its an TP thing but I never met an ESTP or ISTP. Do I know any sensing type except ISTJ?

 

[Shaz]

You're probably right. Looking for conflict is probably more of a TP thing in general.

This said, the toxic people in question aren't people who look for open conflict, are they? But rather manipulative people. Mh. Could TPs be good manipulators? Probably if they're intelligent enough. My first thought would be to associate J with manipulating, but it might be misleading and a bit too easy a judgment.

I don't think ENTJs in general would be more prone to do it than another type, but I don't know if it's a type thing. Mh. Probably more of a T thing I'd say. It's not so much about type as about a few people who have a problem :mrgreen:

To be honest I feel sorry for those people. I don't think they're happy. The girl I knew wasn't happy, I'm sure. She just used other people as a way to make herself feel better. She was such a two faced girl. Couldn't stand it. Yet I wish I could have helped her.

 

[entjForever]

You're probably right. Looking for conflict is probably more of a TP thing in general.

This said, the toxic people in question aren't people who look for open conflict, are they? But rather manipulative people. Mh. Could TPs be good manipulators? Probably if they're intelligent enough. My first thought would be to associate J with manipulating, but it might be misleading and a bit too easy a judgment.

I don't think ENTJs in general would be more prone to do it than another type, but I don't know if it's a type thing. Mh. Probably more of a T thing I'd say. It's not so much about type as about a few people who have a problem :mrgreen:

To be honest I feel sorry for those people. I don't think they're happy. The girl I knew wasn't happy, I'm sure. She just used other people as a way to make herself feel better. She was such a two faced girl. Couldn't stand it. Yet I wish I could have helped her.

Any manipulating ENTJ does it wouldnt be arbitary. Their manipulation would more have to do with acquiring more power or more money. For example, they would try to persuade people to join their entrepreneurial venture or something like that.

But, they would know who to ask. I personally will not be asking any FP to be joining me on anything. Some one like ISTJ would be great to ask since they value commitments, so what I will have them do is commit to something small then have them commit to something big. ISTJ are finishers and no nonsense but they lack the vision that most N has.

And that is about as far as manipulation goes for us, and we would try to achieve a win-win for everybody involve. Because, we would be thinking in the future we might need this person again.

 

[frozen_water]

mm NTPs looking for conflict... my ENTP friend definitely doesn't..... he's so concerned with making friends and appearing the expert at things that he'll change himself to avoid conflict with everyone. I'm not sure what I do. I think I follow the "stay the hell out of everyone else's way" rule most of the time, but when it comes to ideas I certainly don't mind a conflict--as long as it stays contained within the ideological argument. I think INTPs are more likely to fall into the gaps between other people's conflicts (in all honestly, why would anybody bother with conflicts in the first place? It's such a waste of time/energy) than they are to start/seek out their own... but I'll think about it.

 

[meiro]

yep, i have met one.She would complain to me every single thing and i was her support to be there all the time.She never was my friend but she just used me, decided to not help her get out of family reunion dinner.I am off the hook because once i did that she would leave.When she drains me, somehow i can feel it.She thinks the whole world revolves around her.Never heard a sentence of how are you?Manipulative and thinks the whole world is a threat and thinks the whole world owes her.Once i did something wrong, she will leave knowing i won't help or stay by her side.She is going to look for more food soon.I am glad she doesn't call me anymore.She can rant on the phone for hours and not take your advice or listen to it.Never said happy birthday to me and i was always the one giving her bday wishes and presents.On the day, she called me on my bday i thought she remembered but she just came ranting on and on about how she hates her father coming back to stay and talk.How her uncle and auntie wants her to play the instrument she learned and she doesn't want to do it.How she think her life sucks and doesn't do anything about it and never think how children become orphans or starve to death.One word, benefit, thats what she wants.I was stupid to stay by her side so long.Yes, i am a mean one.

 

[Rosenrot]

I have might quite a few toxic people. I eventually stopped talking to them. ^^