Thread about religion....hard to explain in title lol

[Feelings]

I'm not even a christian. The bible never says "this is a true story, based on 100% fact." I'm saying, why distort the bible into some hatred and contempt of it when its a fucking STORY???

That's what you're saying? Didn't sound like it. Why on earth would you even bring this up? Nobody here has advocated hatred and contempt towards the bible.

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[Lerxst]

I changed my beliefs a while after questioning my Catholic roots. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Sec...o-God-In-Buddhism-Are-Buddhists-Atheists.aspx

 

[Diana]

Really thought I wrote that in there so carelessly? I just happen to know that INTJs are talented at playing logical gymnastics and can rationalize almost anything very very well, and I have experience doing this. I referenced my type to say that I personally have experience in this area which makes certain things more clear to me. The arguments I put forth definitely stand on their own. And I am kind of staring incredulously that you would be challenging the validity and rationality of my views when I put forth so much more of an explanation for mine than you have for yours. But you're mad so you're probably just spewing. Not really an acceptable thing to do in my opinion. It's not that I don't care about your feelings Diana, it's that I don't think you're addressing your dislike in an appropriate way.

I'm neither angry nor spewing.

 

[Kmal]

That's what you're saying? Didn't sound like it. Why on earth would you even bring this up? Nobody here has advocated hatred and contempt towards the bible.

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How do you know that god's not just a sick fuck? How do you know that god and the devil are not just characters played by 1 entity who just wants to toy with us? How do you know that god didn't create hundreds of other alternate realities with a completely different physics and chemistry just for kicks? How do you know that other people are actually conscious entities, as opposed to just elements of 'the matrix'? You could be a 'brain in a jar'. You don't know.

different interpretations i guess. It seems pretty stupid to interpret a story that way. its like saying jack and jill went up to get a pale of water and fucked all day tripping on acid after they killed their aunt and uncle-- its like "wtf how did you get THAT out of the story??"

 

[bickelz]

I am an INTJ too

I'm not in the club but whatever,

my dad is a screwball ESFJ who claims that we are all catholic because his mother was catholic, but spouts off about how the bible is a fiction written by man.

This makes me think my dad's an esfj. Except he believes in god heavily, can't answer the questions I ask him and "knows" sarah palin will get elected in 2012.

I considered athiesm, because it seemed more plausable than christianity based on what I'd seen. One of the most profound athiest statements I'd seen was in Richard Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" where an athiest friend of his was asked what he'd do if he died and went to the gates of heaven and met God, who asked the man why he didn't believe in him. He said that he would reply "I didn't see enough evidence to believe in you." Such an honest and truthful answer was truly profound and inspirational to me.

In any case, there was one problem with athiesm for me in the sense of it denying spirituality (that may be stretching the concept. Denying God, I think, tends to deny spirituality in general as well). That is this: We are conscious. That's fairly self-evident.

This is why I have trouble with atheism. There is almost no proof for god yet there isn't much of an argument that he does not exist. I do think there is something to spirituality though in a very natural way.

 

[enfp can be shy]

Gods don't exist, but the art forms and teachings remaining from all kinds of religions have certain social applications. Unfortunately, usually even the religious followers seem to not quite get their own "holy" books.

Without evil there can be no good, no light without darkness. God doesn't actively intervene in our lives, not by any magic miracles, anyway. His will is done through humans, we act as agents of providence. If the world is going to be made a better place, we ourselves have to initiate the process. If we are unable to perceive evil, we cannot imagine any contrasting good, and if we can't do that, no action can be initiated. This simple truth makes it necessary that relative evil exists. The vital choice you're faced with is this: do you recognize evil and seek to eliminate it by utilizing the tools God has bequeathed upon you, or do you simply play pretend?

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

So, I guess you mean pagan gods.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I take bad stuff like this:

What we actually deserve is a lot, lot worse than we get. In fact, merely to exist is a pretty awesome bonus.

As for why some especially bad stuff happens - I know from my own life that God lets bad things happen, because He can get a greater good because of it. If I hadn't gone through some very, very horrible stuff as a teenager, I would probably have been a real terror. As much as I would like to have had a nicer life - I couldn't honestly wish it, because I know what I would be like.

Even stuff that seems to have no point, or no justice, or no resolution as far as we can see are clearly seen to God - and I think there will be a time when every wrong is set right and every tear is consoled.

Finally, for those who reach the age of reason and beyond - for many of the things we do, we deserve a lot worse than we get - we probably deserve to fry for the rest of time. Anything else is a good thing.

 

[acd]

Ok well, this is something that upsets me a lot..

As a child I was bought up Christian, I had a very strong belief and relationship with God. But as I got older I started to see all the bad in the world, and couldn't imagine my God letting these bad things go on, no matter how many times its called a test of faith, some things that happen to people should never ever happen. It upset me so greatly I started to hate my God, the God who loves, forgives and provides for us, didn't feel like that God any more.

I no longer hate him I no longer believe he exists, but I wish so hard that he did/does, it hurts me, growing up with that realtionship I had with him, and all that followed after to now. I mostly try to block the world out, I dont watch tv or read the papers, I aviod people where ever possible, its just all so horrible, and he let it be this way.

woooooww I am a bit messed up huh?

I was wondering if anyone else has experiences this? And how they deal with it?

You're not messed up. Your confusion and anger is understandable. You've begun asking questions that may not have ocurred to you before, and you do not have the answers.. That is frustrating. I can see how it would make the world seem a hostile place and the God you've based your reality upon seem cruel. The thing is, you can still believe in God despite these horrible things happening in the world because the bible does address these issues. The OT says somewhere that God allows the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. Early Christians were burned alive for their belief and Jesus himself was crucified and God did not prevent it. So Christianity does not claim that God's existence negates bad things from happening. I suppose you could look at it like this: If the world is truly a sinful and corrupt place, maybe God keeps just enough of himself here to make it bearable for some.

Or you could pursue not believing. Either way--It's not a good idea to focus on all the horrible things in the world and grow miserable and reclusive because of it. If you are this upset about the horrible things happening in the world, what good could you possibly do hiding from everything? Your anger could be used proactively to help people who are suffering in a world filled with apathy.

Our world requires action, not pondering questions that are meant to have no answers (as is the nature of faith). Believe or do not believe; do or do not.

Call up your local shelter and volunteer. Volunteer as a rape response advocate and give emotional support and legal advocacy to survivors. Become a social worker or a police officer..or an activist.
But don't blame God for any of this. It won't do you or anyone else any good.

 

[This]

I think it's pretty arrogant for anyone to outrightly state that any kind of God either exists or doesn't in complete absolutism and assurance. I think it's fair to say that you do or don't believe God(s) exists. But to make outright proclamations of certainty does nothing but belittle the beliefs of others and basically imply that you find others opinions on the matter irrelevant because "you're right"

 

[Arsal]

This is why I have trouble with atheism. There is almost no proof for god yet there isn't much of an argument that he does not exist.

You cannot disprove something that has no way to be proven.

 

[Barnabas]

You cannot disprove something that has no way to be proven.

yeah! like evolution

 

[just me]

The God I loved once would not let children be abused, or starve to death, innocent children, who need love and have to grow up in this horrible world, they dont deserve anything but love. I understand we all have free will, but I feel he should be protecting the innocent lives he bought into the world.

Sounds a little like Heaven what you are expecting in a sinful earth. PM incoming.

 

[just me]

That is not a Christian perspective. A system that posits a God who doesn't interact with the world is called Deism and is not necessarily Christian.

In a Christian worldview, God most certainly interacts with the world.

God creates the world.

God then destroys the world when it becomes "vile and evil".

God destroys Sodom and Gommorah.

God sends manna to his followers as they starve in the desert outside Sinai.

God is a visible and objective cloud by day and pillar of fire by night.

God sends a Chariot of Angels to drive-by pick up Elijah.

God becomes Jesus, fully God and fully human and dies for the same type of people he kills in Genesis when he floods the world.

You can say that your God is hands off. Fine. But the Christian God is not.

That being said, I am more likely to think of the Loch Ness Monster as real than the previously mentioned Jewish deities (I guess I should say Deity. Jesus is his own father and he is the holy spirit as well. It took a lot of in-fighting, name-calling, and killing for Christians to finally decide on the nature of the Trinity---3 in 1 or 1 in 3---- in 451 AD at the Council of Chalcedon; before that it was the nature of Christ and before that what holy books should actually be considered canonical).

There is no problem of evil since it is highly unlikely that there is a God governing things. And if there is a God, like Henry Miller, I would promptly walk up to him and spit in his face (Sorry for the male pronouns, ladies, but per George Carlin I doubt that a woman could ever fuck things up this badly).

You have already spit in His face.

 

[just me]

This is why I have trouble with atheism. There is almost no proof for god yet there isn't much of an argument that he does not exist. I do think there is something to spirituality though in a very natural way.

Interesting and almost likeable response, [MENTION=3545]bickelz[/MENTION].