The transgender people in restrooms debate

[hush]

To make it simple, I pretty much just disagree with everything in the OP. I'm not sure why you wouldn't give any human beings equal rights. It seems wrong and injustice to do otherwise. A human is a human. The whole thing seems like a silly, pointless debate anyway.

People are being slaughtered around the world; where someone goes poop isn't of much concern to me.

 

[Tin Man]

As has already been said numerous times in this thread, I don't have a problem with it. There may be one or two assholes who'll take advantage of this. Who will abuse rights that give a small bit of recognition to those who face oppression but that sort of human garbage will always find a way to worsen the lives of others.

And [MENTION=4598]hush[/MENTION] is right. I'm slaughtering so many people and yet barely get on the news these days. That's the real problem.

 

[PintoBean]

1. Only perverted men should pee around young boys
2. I don't want girl pee touching my pee
3. Seriously, why shouldn't there be just one peeing and pooping room? Embarrassed of your poop?

Addressing #3 here (in order to talk about doing numbers 1 and 2): Yeah, actually I am a bit embarrassed of my poop. And tampons. And urinating and dropping trou in barely enclosed stalls next to strangers strangers. And I do find it easier to do so in a room occupied only by other females (In this context, I am defining females as those in possession of a vagina). If someone with a penis self-identifies as a female, it certainly does present a civil rights issue. I do I think that for this reason it will come down businesses and institutions having unisex bathrooms. The catch here is that I think these unisex bathrooms will ultimately have to be private/single occupant rooms, not multi-stall bathrooms.

 

[PintoBean]

People are talking a lot about "equal rights" as they apply to say the architectural choices and rules of private businesses. I think we should clear up that we are talking about civil rights, not equal rights under the Equal Protection clause (that is unless we are talking about bathrooms in government buildings or gov funded institutions). If you want to defend someone's gender equality rights to go in different bathrooms in private businesses, use the Commerce Clause. Just saying.

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

Are transgender humans a brand new creation or have they been around for a while?

If they've been around, are they just now learning to use the restroom?

There's a high probability that we've all shared a bathroom with one without incident and didn't know it. I've no idea why it's even an issue.

Our ignorance divides us.

 

[PintoBean]

Are transgender humans a brand new creation or have they been around for a while?

If they've been around, are they just now learning to use the restroom?

There's a high probability that we've all shared a bathroom with one without incident and didn't know it. I've no idea why it's even an issue.

Our ignorance divides us.

At one point we all pooped in the same woods. And after that, there was a lot of outhouse and chamber pot sharing, certainly. But the evolution of indoor plumbing where all and sundry can relieve themselves in privacy with relative hygiene measures in place, has perhaps been a coup of modern life. Some people (whether you agree or disagree) believe that inherent in the whole privacy thing is separation of the sexes during these intimate moments.

 

[CindyLou]

Addressing #3 here (in order to talk about doing numbers 1 and 2): Yeah, actually I am a bit embarrassed of my poop. And tampons. And urinating and dropping trou in barely enclosed stalls next to strangers strangers. And I do find it easier to do so in a room occupied only by other females (In this context, I am defining females as those in possession of a vagina). If someone with a penis self-identifies as a female, it certainly does present a civil rights issue. I do I think that for this reason it will come down businesses and institutions having unisex bathrooms. The catch here is that I think these unisex bathrooms will ultimately have to be private/single occupant rooms, not multi-stall bathrooms.

I think school bathrooms and locker rooms are the main issue and not public restrooms at a business even though businesses are usually what's mentioned in these discussions. It's not a problem so easily solved in schools.

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

At one point we all pooped in the same woods. And after that, there was a lot of outhouse and chamber pot sharing, certainly. But the evolution of indoor plumbing where all and sundry can relieve themselves in privacy with relative hygiene measures in place, has perhaps been a coup of modern life. Some people (whether you agree or disagree) believe that inherent in the whole privacy thing is separation of the sexes during these intimate moments.

I don't disagree with you. I just think the thought is more disturbing than reality.

 

[dang]

As has already been said numerous times in this thread, I don't have a problem with it. There may be one or two assholes who'll take advantage of this. Who will abuse rights that give a small bit of recognition to those who face oppression but that sort of human garbage will always find a way to worsen the lives of others.

And [MENTION=4598]hush[/MENTION] is right. I'm slaughtering so many people and yet barely get on the news these days. That's the real problem.

You need to hire a publicist. Your slaughtering deserves way more attention. If it were up to me there would be a cable channel called JSNN, or Jacobi Slaughtering News Network. I blame the liberal media for suppressing your slaughtering news. It's bullshit.

 

[Skarekrow]

If you look at places like ancient Greece (not that they are a source of what we would consider by today’s standards, moral fortitude) there was no stigma attached to “doing one’s business”, it was often unisex, you washed off with a rag on a stick.
Everything was all out in the open, often with 36+ seating at some of the bathhouses...just saying, it really wasn’t until certain religions made sex into a sin that we start to see this type of thing vanish.
I think the generation of my son (who is 12 now) just see it as a non-issue.
It is nice to have one’s privacy, and modern life gives us that...but we are the one’s who set those standards mostly due to moral standards stemming from religious morality teachings.

 

[detectivepope]

If you are concerned on the contents of a persons underwear when they are going the toilet, you are the pervert.

 

[Faye]

[MENTION=11526]Artemisia[/MENTION] Before I give a full response to this, I need to make a note on terminology.

[MODS]I went ahead and edited the title of this thread to read as "The transgender people in restrooms debate". Here is why: The term 'tranny' was coined and popularized by pornographic websites. So if you want to talk about the phenomenon of 'tranny' pornography, please make a thread in the Mature Section. Otherwise, it would be better to limit/avoid using pornographic phraseology since it is indecent and we do have minors on this forum.[/MODS]

Transgender or gender variant people consider the term (and similar terminology) to be an indecent slur and hate speech. It reduces us to nothing more than sex objects, so we find it dehumanizing.

We also try to avoid the term 'transsexual' as well- at least as how it is commonly used. This is partially to avoid confusion because it has the word 'sex' in it and being transgender has absolutely nothing to do with one's sexuality, which is another reason why we do not like being associated with the sex work/pornography industry (because people assume that our desire to transition is somehow a result of our sexuality when that is not the case). Transsexual is not a sexual orientation. However, the main reason is that the term is outdated. It is sort of like calling gay people 'homosexuals'. When we do use the term 'transsexual', we use it specifically to refer to someone who is medically transitioning or who has the desire to pursue medical transition (i.e. hormones and possibly surgery). We view it along the lines of having an intersex condition.

 

[the]

If you are concerned on the contents of a persons underwear when they are going the toilet, you are the pervert.

There is probably nothing in their underwear if they are on the toilet...

 

[Faye]

What are you thoughts on this? Basically transsexuals in the US have been petitioning for equal rights in using male and female bathrooms.

There really was never an issue. Transgender people have been using bathrooms that differ from their birth-assigned sex for years, decades even. If you use public restrooms at places like restaurants and movie theaters, then you have almost definitely shared the restroom with numerous transgender people over the course of your lifetime. The current debate did not arise as a result of transgender people petitioning the government. It came about as a result of conservative groups using the supposed bathroom issue to scapegoat LGBT people and push through anti-LGBT legislation like in North Carolina. They lost 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', and they lost the fight over gay marriage. So they turned their attention to transgender people because they want to keep discrimination of LGBT people legal, especially in the interest of religious groups. Here is an article that gives an overview of what has happened:

Anti-transgender bathroom hysteria, explained

Even once Mayor Annise Parker dropped the bathroom provision from HERO (Houston Equal Rights Ordinance), it was still voted out. So it is still legal for private businesses, apartment/housing complexes, and physicians in private practice to discriminate against LGBT people in Houston. If I were to move back there and apply for an apartment and they recognized me as a transgender person, they could deny me the apartment. If I took another job in Houston and my boss found out that I am transgender, they could fire me. If I went to the doctor's office and was honest about the fact that I've been taking estrogen, which is becoming increasingly obvious as my features change and breasts grow, they could refuse to treat me. The same is true if they found out that I'm bisexual.

Personally I think people should stick to the gender they were assigned at birth.

The American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and World Health Organization all support affirming care for transgender people. What that means is that transition is viewed as a medical necessity for transgender people. Medical transition has been proven to be extremely beneficial for people that experience gender dysphoria (transgender people). So you're welcome to your opinion, but it goes directly against medical science. I'll hunt down and link the studies and/or resolutions if you want to see them.

I will not even delve into the identity confusion most transsexuals have but all I can say is that they are only a tiny minority and should not be given equal rights.

I don't know what identity confusion you're referencing, but I'd love to hear about it. We are a tiny minority, about 0.2-0.3 percent of the population supposedly, but that is still a significant number of people. The current estimate is that there are 700,000 of us in the United States alone. However, that estimate is probably low since I suspect so many transgender people are too afraid to transition, and a large portion commit suicide. Of living transgender people, 41% have attempted suicide as a result of societal discrimination and us not having equal rights.


And I don't know why you think we shouldn't be given equal rights, but I'd love to hear about that as well.

 

[dang]

[MENTION=11526]Artemisia[/MENTION] Before I give a full response to this, I need to make a note on terminology.

[MODS]I went ahead and edited the title of this thread to read as "The transgender people in restrooms debate". Here is why: The term 'tranny' was coined and popularized by pornographic websites. So if you want to talk about the phenomenon of 'tranny' pornography, please make a thread in the Mature Section. Otherwise, it would be better to limit/avoid using pornographic phraseology since it is indecent and we do have minors on this forum.[/MODS]

Transgender or gender variant people consider the term (and similar terminology) to be an indecent slur and hate speech. It reduces us to nothing more than sex objects, so we find it dehumanizing.

We also try to avoid the term 'transsexual' as well- at least as how it is commonly used. This is partially to avoid confusion because it has the word 'sex' in it and being transgender has absolutely nothing to do with one's sexuality, which is another reason why we do not like being associated with the sex work/pornography industry (because people assume that our desire to transition is somehow a result of our sexuality when that is not the case). Transsexual is not a sexual orientation. However, the main reason is that the term is outdated. It is sort of like calling gay people 'homosexuals'. When we do use the term 'transsexual', we use it specifically to refer to someone who is medically transitioning or who has the desire to pursue medical transition (i.e. hormones and possibly surgery). We view it along the lines of having an intersex condition.

I was sort of surprised by the thread title myself. I always thought the word tranny was derogatory, like calling a female a bitch.

 

[JJJA]

There is no debate to be had here. There is no issue. There is no hysteria. The only debate I see is between those that want all misguided teens to change their genders, and those that would rather they didn't change them in the first place. Since we are all civilized adults, we all agree that changing genders is a difficult choice, but I get rather tired of hearing this debate overpower issues that frankly shouldn't even be in the same hemisphere.

 

[Skarekrow]

There is no debate to be had here. There is no issue. There is no hysteria. The only debate I see is between those that want all misguided teens to change their genders, and those that would rather they didn't change them in the first place. Since we are all civilized adults, we all agree that changing genders is a difficult choice, but I get rather tired of hearing this debate overpower issues that frankly shouldn't even be in the same hemisphere.

Unfortunately the US media has blown the whole issue out of proportion.
However, it would be a non-issue if certain US states hadn’t specifically single out transgendered or transexual people via laws that are being imposed upon the whole of the state(s) because the religious right has taken issue with it.

Meanwhile we have actual issues with those same religious groups fucking around with/trying to impose law or write new laws to make it an issue...while trying to spare their own asses in hot water.

Catholic Church Spent Over $2 Million To Block Child Rape Laws And Protect Pedophiles (VIDEO)
http://reverbpress.com/religion/cat...ock-child-rape-laws-protect-pedophiles-video/

The New York Daily News discovered that from 2007 to 2015, the Catholic Conference had paid Albany’s most influential lobbying firms over $2.1 million to block the Child Victims Act. Led by Timothy Cardinal Dolan, the Catholic Conference hired Wilson Elser Moskowitz Edelman & Dicker, Patricia Lynch & Associates, Hank Sheinkopf, and Mark Behan Communications to lobby against the bill. The $2.1 million does not include the conference’s own internal lobbying team.

​

As listed on their informational website, the goal of the Child Victims Act is to:

• Eliminate both criminal and civil statutes of limitation for child sexual abuse, preventing predators and their protectors from escaping responsibility for their crimes by waiting out the clock.
• Provide a one-time, one-year window in the statute of limitations that would enable victims whose claim was time-barred by the current arbitrary limitations to revive their claim. This would offer an opportunity for justice to those who were unfairly or criminally denied their day in court.
• Save our state extensive financial as well as social costs. Studies show child sexual abuse costs NYS taxpayers over $1 billion every year.

So instead of addressing ACTUAL sexual misconduct going on...let’s make a scapegoat of the LGBT community.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I suspect that this is principally about keeping XY individuals out of female bathrooms, and not so much about keeping XX individuals out of male bathrooms.

It's a femi-discrimination issue.

...

 

[Skarekrow]

I suspect that this is principally about keeping XY individuals out of female bathrooms, and not so much about keeping XX individuals out of male bathrooms.

It's a femi-discrimination issue.

...

It’s push-back and the death gasps from the religious conservative neoliberal south still acting butthurt about the Confederate flag being taken down.

 

[Sriracha]

Public restrooms are disgusting overall. Shut them all down and make everyone piss outside.