The Role of Religion

[charlatan]

I tend to be fairly critical of the views that suggest it's clear science tells us everything (at least as presently done), and I don't claim to know that we'll resolve some of the things that seem out of reach right now.... however, I think if there's one criticism easiest to level against many versions of organized religions (which I get the sense are the biggest target of some of the people you mention), it's really that they claim a lot of certainty about matters which seem utterly mysterious and out of reach at the moment!

One of the big cousin-criticisms of them is thus that they obscure the more down to earth issues of morality which can be addressed by secular means using a blend of secular ethics and even some science to add empirical support....it's a little like trying to use a speculative theory of neutral monism to build your next airplane, except the speculative such monist might even try to be more careful to at least ensure the theory is consistent with physics. The way most who speculate as to the nature of reality proceed is they take very seriously that it had better be consistent with existing physics, meaning they are unlikely to disturb the practice of current physics (at least the practical, predictive side, vs the theoretical underpinnings).


So that said, I think that the activity of pondering the big questions can be very healthy and put one in a contemplative mood... but I do also think that developing very high levels of false certainty causes a lot of harm.
To the extent something calling itself 'religion' can strike a balance here, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Ren]

I tend to be fairly critical of the views that suggest it's clear science tells us everything (at least as presently done), and I don't claim to know that we'll resolve some of the things that seem out of reach right now.... however, I think if there's one criticism easiest to level against many versions of organized religions (which I get the sense are the biggest target of some of the people you mention), it's really that they claim a lot of certainty about matters which seem utterly mysterious and out of reach at the moment!

One of the big cousin-criticisms of them is thus that they obscure the more down to earth issues of morality which can be addressed by secular means using a blend of secular ethics and even some science to add empirical support....it's a little like trying to use a speculative theory of neutral monism to build your next airplane, except the speculative such monist might even try to be more careful to at least ensure the theory is consistent with physics. The way most who speculate as to the nature of reality proceed is they take very seriously that it had better be consistent with existing physics, meaning they are unlikely to disturb the practice of current physics (at least the practical, predictive side, vs the theoretical underpinnings).


So that said, I think that the activity of pondering the big questions can be very healthy and put one in a contemplative mood... but I do also think that developing very high levels of false certainty causes a lot of harm.
To the extent something calling itself 'religion' can strike a balance here, I don't see a problem with it.

Does it not follow that the less dogmatic the religion, the more likely you are to be sympathetic toward it?

 

[charlatan]

@Ren -- yep!

 

[Ren]

@Ren -- yep!

Yay, we reached an agreement quickly this time

 

[Deleted member 16771]

If @Ren and @charlatan aren't playing correspondence chess on the side, then I'll eat my socks.

 

[Ren]

If @Ren and @charlatan aren't playing correspondence chess on the side, then I'll eat my socks.

Actually we aren't, but this is a pretty cool suggestion!

 

[G4RiiM]

divide and conquer

 

[larcipelago]

I analyzed when is the precise time Adam and Eve descendend from heaven. No answer. Science said a homo species cannot survive if we dont live in a group of 200. May be Adam and Eve are just a different type of homo who descended from heaven? The math doesn't add up

 

[Krypton]

I'm not sure I share a lot of your fears here, but I think it's true that modern Western culture lacks appropriately formal or sacral spaces within which to convey moral teaching - whatever your belief system, human beings remain finely attuned to the 'sacred' and more modern attempts to produce a secular version of this fall somewhat flat. Dawkins himself came close with his awestruck sense of nature's 'grandeur', but unless this can be more explicitly tied to human meaning, it does not reproduce the role of religion. The fact is that we need the sacred in our lives; we need the sacrosanct and the grave and the dignified, so religion will continue to play a role until we can come up with an adequate secular formulation of the same.

Sometimes I've thought of society as "the great machine", with each person forming a part that does something for the vast, living body that they reside in. I feel like that imagery could go somewhere.

Or maybe we could bring back the "chain of being" phrase, but instead of using it to justify social class, it could be used to show how other people, perhaps even far away from you, depend on you.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger]

To clarify I wonder if the biggest conclusion of religion are for humans to be more mindful in protecting the earth, especially in this day in age. The Native Americans' religion revolved around nature, respecting the environment. I think the Shinto religion also. Perhaps Hinduism and Buddhism also. I'm not sure about Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. I believe there's a verse respecting God's creation. I think humanity has screwed a lot of things up, thanks to the Industrial Age.

 

[Rit4lin]

I would recommend reading this book, it explores the role religion has had (predominantly Roman Catholicism) in how Western civilization has formed

 

[EbmerStorm]

It's so complicated to me the role religion has in my life right now. I can't understand if I truly believe in God or if it's just what society wants me to do

 

[niar]

As an antitheist, I believe religion/spirituality benefits those who believe and oppresses those who don't.

It's another bubble for people to sit in comfortably and selfishly and measure themselves and their values, lifestyle, ect. to those outside the bubble. People claim that it's possible to not be in the bubble, and some more reasonable theists warn that one should be careful not to trap ourselves in it, but they don't understand that that's the whole point, the whole attraction of religion on a personal level is self righteousness.

 

[JeffreySnow]

For me, it's very hard to understand the role religion plays in my life. I am baptized, and I had religious lessons during primary school. I was praying and going to different churches in portland, but as I grew up, things started to change. I can't understand anymore if I believe in God...

 

[TheDeathOfYouAndMe]

In short, I believe religion is an extension of humanities need for ritual and order. Be it, inward or outward.

 

[Matty]

With all the criticism of religion from people like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Bill Nye, could not one argue that people still value religion and that it plays a role/function in society? One argue that religion sometimes makes people less empathetic like during mass shootings in recent times, with evangelical Christian organizations supporting Trump. Religion evolved as a way for Homo sapiens to have a hopeful vision as team players to build a meaningful life against the horrors of the unknown, dark, wild, immoral world. However, religions like Christianity teach people ethics, philosophy, and music in a simple way for people to understand. The Catholic Church developed large part of the tradition of education to what it is today. Peaceful religions like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism, and Shinto teach people disciplined routine, a "battle rhythm."

Could one argue that religion makes humans more aware to set higher standards of a culture of morality, sophistication and dignity rather than toxic, hedonistic things like antisocial behavior/crime (like "me too" situations, mass shootings theft), some Pop music, porn, junk food, drugs, promiscuity, and alcohol? Also, the impulsive war mongering politicians that initiate wars like Vietnam and Iraq. Why does western civilization leave elderly and other family members alone and in East Asian countries the family stays together? People are likely to be vulnerable to these things with how loosely public education is with all the breaks, etc. I turn on the TV since the early 2000s and I see all these dumb shows related to "pop" culture like MTV show like Teen Mom, reality TV like Jersey Shore, TMZ following celebrities acting stupid. I frankly find it disturbing how popular porn has evolved on the internet, taking advantage of perhaps low/average agreeable IQ people (listed on the most visited sites on the internet, like this toxic slime seeping secretly underneath society) I know sites were created by some geek behind a computer to make fun of religion, but it is disturbing how people make themselves vulnerable to the world, like a virus that has spread? I find myself lucky that I wasn't pressured into any of those toxic situations to make me vulnerable like that, to perhaps PTSD.

It seems that religion plays a role for people to search for meaning, be a conscientious, dignified person, and set goals. Finally, if religion inspired much of past architecture, music, art, science, and education, couldn't we acknowledge the role all religions play in civilization, to distinguish humans from savage animals? Religion has made the average person aware of ethics, dignity of human life, and the value of science and to follow gifted people in the leadership they provide to research and development.

Religion may have social, intellectual, and cultural benefits, but that seems besides the point.

The final state of your soul, the goal of seeing God, and of happiness seem far more important.

 

[JeffreySnow]

For me, it's very hard to understand the role religion plays in my life. I am baptized, and I had religious lessons during primary school. I was praying and going to different churches in portland, but as I grew up, things started to change. I can't understand anymore if I believe in God...

I see that my grandparents and my parents believe, but I don't feel confident in my position. I tend to believe that there is a higher power, but I'm not sure it's the God that everyone around me believes in. So I definitely need to get deep into this idea and understand the role of religion in my life. Maybe I'll even read some of the book recommendations above. Thank you.