The "Ra's Al Ghul Belief"; An Open Letter to interested parties. | INFJ Forum

The "Ra's Al Ghul Belief"; An Open Letter to interested parties.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Shai Gar, Apr 28, 2009.

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  1. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    The belief goes that Humanity needs to have a drastic population reduction by any means necessary in order to save the biosphere being destroyed or eroded, for the good of humanity as a species, and every other species that we haven't yet wiped out on earth.

    Generally, this belief is stated in the form of a desire for genocide, appreciation for natural disasters on a large scale, or on the small scale, condoning suicide. These ideas are never well liked by the general population, the most common replies to this statement of belief are;

    or
    These ideas are rather stupid for the following reason.

    Since the majority of the population are against the idea of population reduction and indeed governments actively foster the idea of reproduction amongst their citizens (with the exception of china), and since most people obey their governments, getting rid of the very few people who not only recognise that we're overpopulated on the planet, but are willing to take on the mantle of necessary evil, or well intentioned extremist to get something done about it, isn't a very good idea. Religions hold that abortions are evil, and that masturbation is wasting "seed" that ought to be fertilised in another person to increase the population (a throwback rule to the day when that particular religion had very few people amongst masses of perceived enemies). Most of the population on earth obey these religions and don't use condoms or have abortions, which lends to the slowly exponentially increasing birthrate. So what we have are societies two biggest influencers, Government and Religion both actively pursuing an agenda of overpopulation, and a massive society of sheep who obey either one or the other or both. Very few people actually have the brains to realise that we're overpopulated, and even fewer realise that even proposed solutions such as "better food harvesting and distribution" are solutions which won't be implemented for decades, in the meantime destroying our ecosystem and driving further species of animal life into extinction by proxy of protecting harvest animals.

    Since so few people are able to recognise it, it stands then that even fewer have the courage to suggest these ideas out loud to the rest of the population. It's going to be fewer again who actively attempt to solve the crisis beyond words. It's well documented that people who do not believe in such socially unacceptable paths will not take them unless they're for Economic, Nationalistic or Territorial reasons, all of which are reasons which, in the main, are against the lowering of the human population drastically. It needs to be a proponent of the Ras Al Ghul Belief who champions it into mainstream reality. Whether or not the proponent deserves to live in such a world once they've finished their cause is a matter for debate once the cause has been fulfilled. Frank Castle carries a bullet with his own name on it for when his job is completed, and even The Operative understands and accepts that he has no place in the world he's helping to build. However, as stated, these are discussions for afterwards.

    It's hypocritical for people who are against murder or suicide to even state that the proponent of genocide or condoning of suicide (personal, or soylent green) should go first, because what they're then stating is that murder or suicide is okay. A person cannot flippity flop between their beliefs without being a hypocrite, and the opinions of hypocrites given as statement of fact without being backed up in legalese can be written off with ease.
     
  2. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    While that was a Statement of Belief, it was also a call to debating the points or even whole structure of the belief.

    Go ahead.
     
  3. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    I don't think either of us is qualified to determine whether the world is overpopulated. Given our levels of knowledge, it's largely subjective. What we do know is that the distribution of population is screwed up, and that makes things awfully inefficient, and magnifies the appearance of overpopulation.
     
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  4. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Eyes to take information in
    Ears to take information in
    Fingers to take information in (for the blind, braille)
    A mind to make sense of it all
    Rational thought to attack it critically
    Knowledge to understand how the biosphere and an interdependent ecosystem works

    Armed with those, I'd say we do have the qualifications.
     
  5. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    What is the information supporting the theory that the world is overpopulated?
     
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  6. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    That's for a different thread. This is a thread on the RAG Belief.

    I might get around to making THAT thread later on. Assume it is and go from there.
     
  7. bamf

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    Going on the assumption that it is true, I have a hard time justifying that one life is more or less important than another therefore making it impossible for me to stand behind "any means necessary". I think education about population control could be beneficial if we truly are over populated. At the same time I have a hard time justifying restrictions on someone's choices for reproduction.
     
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  8. Lucifer

    Lucifer Registered User #666

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    We destroy the biosphere, the biosphere then destroys us. Population problem would be solved.
     
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  9. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Education can continue for decades, but in the meantime, the population is going to continue. Government or Religion makes the changes, not education.

    See China for their One Child Policy. I'd have changed that to "One Child per 5 Families" policy, with a tribe of adults raising the child, free and equal access for each adult to the child to raise them properly, as well as leaving them with their resources. Within a generation the population would be manageable.
     
  10. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Precisely. We're over a cliff on a tree branch we're chopping off.

    But I don't want the entire human species and every other species eradicated. I just want to prune the human race so that we can flourish better.
     
  11. bamf

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    So if we prune it, who goes and who decides that it's ok for those people to go?
     
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  12. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I'm biased, but I'm of the belief that those who say we need to constantly reproduce need to go. And that those who ignore climate change, and are for raping the environment for economic purposes need to go, as well as those who are ignorant of history and so on.

    Upper Class would be gone. Extreme Rich.
    Lower Class would be gone. Extreme Poor.
    Keep the Educated Liberals.

    In the end, I'm only really supportive of allowing NTPs and NFJs to survive.

    I recognise this as a bad point of view so I'd not want to have the final say. I'll leave it for someone who can be fair and balanced, objective and is willing to make the harsh decision. Probably an INTJ.
     
  13. bamf

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    If it ever came down to this I'd want to be one of the ones killed so I wouldn't have to live with the knowledge that I let such a thing happen because personally I couldn't support it. Of course the want to be killed would be selfish and by the logic presented in the OP, hypocritical.
     
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  14. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    That would pretty much guarantee the demise of most of Southeast Asia within 30 years. Would that be okay for the process, in your opinion, or would it destabilize things too much?
     
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  15. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Only if you state that all murder and suicide is bad and has no place.

    Suicide or Accepting Death so as to do no harm, that's admirable because it's following your values to the letter. As Leslie Thompkins said during NML "I'd rather have died than be the cause of you committing violence".
     
  16. bamf

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    I don't speak in absolutes so I cannot say that either have no place.
     
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  17. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I'm okay with destabilisation. Stability leads to Stagnation, leads to Social Rot, leads to Corruption, leads to Oppression.

    The worlds population needs to be cut by 95%. A Species can survive as long as there's a healthy genetic pool of 5000 which isn't interfered with. I'm talking about leaving a whole lot more than that.
     
  18. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I don't like to either. But Pruning isn't cutting the tree down, pouring sump oil on the stump and then salting the earth.
     
  19. bamf

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    I just have a hard time advocating and forcing what I believe in on other people to something as drastic as this, be it necessary or not. I guess in the end I just don't know if it's right; but either way I don't want to be around for it.
     
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  20. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    On what are you basing that number? What would be bad about a 90% reduction?
     
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