The obviousness of existence? | INFJ Forum

The obviousness of existence?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Barnabas, Apr 4, 2010.

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  1. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    It would seem to m the existence is very much so obvious, however I no many people either doubt their own existence or disregaard it completely?

    Why is that?


     
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  2. Entyqua

    Entyqua Forgotten
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    I dont doubt my existence, I doubt the worth of it...
     
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  3. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    i think people doubt their own existence sometimes because they have no third party perspective on it.
     
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  4. Roger

    Roger ...

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    People doubt their existence because they can't see their connection with everyone else on this earth. You can't disconnect yourself from this bond, when you think in this way: you are connected with others and others are connected with you in the same way, whether you know it or not. Just you have to feel this connection. Then you'll able to see you existence and how you look on this earth.
     
  5. Raccoon Love

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    This.
     
  6. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Because their parents have told them stuff like "it's all up to you", "the fate of the world depends on YOU", and attitudes of this kind. I wouldn't even believe that such parents still exist, but they do, and are probably the majority.
     
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  7. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    how come?
     
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  8. Roger

    Roger ...

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    Such parents are trying to say, you are bright future for this country(regarding to their country).
     
  9. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    well sir, that begs for further explanation?

    Also I remember you mentioning something about you being nothing way back when I first joined, could you elaborate or corect me on that.
     
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  10. NeverAmI

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    Because we question whether there is anything beyond what we observe through our senses. Quantum physics shows a world VERY far beyond what we perceive. Bertrand Russell stresses how we don't actually observe the 'being' of a table, we see how it is shaped, the denseness of the material, the feel of the material, and from that we infer that it is indeed a table, which the word 'table' is a nominal symbolic reference to a general category of what a table is.

    There was an ancient tribe that had a person that had never seen a human from far away, when he say the human first, he thought it was a bug because they were so small, then as they got closer the human grew and it blew the guy's mind. This helps to show how much of our world is inferred based on input through our senses.

    It is the scientific and philosophical mind to question our senses and whether there is something more and to understand what that is.

    For all I know, I could have had memories implanted just now, and what I experience is all a simulation. Who can prove otherwise? Now, this isn't to say that is the case, but it is a plausible argument.

    What if a game character had the ability to question itself? You wouldn't have any direct way to interact with that character because it is in a different realm of existence, it is inside the game of code while you are in a physical 'reality.' That is, unless the game coders somehow created an interface for you to chat directly with the character, and even then you would simply be a voice inside their head. Although if you could interact with the physical realm AND be a voice inside their head, then you could prove your existence outside that character's own being and realm of existence.
     
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    #10 NeverAmI, Apr 4, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
  11. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    in terms of the game character, tht begs the question just because you are controlled does that mean you don't exist.

    even on a level of memories, just because you can't prove what is real in your past no matter how close it gets to the present. you still have the present, take this post for example It's right now and I am typing it.
     
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  12. NeverAmI

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    I acknowledge that something happens in the present, there is no doubt that this exists, but there is question as to the nature of existence.
     
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  13. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    When physically unreasonable expectations are induced in one's mind, the mind is set to doubt its own existence eventually. The self part is nothing, which isn't a problem of existence. Animals don't question their own existence, exactly because they have no self.

    Inducing physically unreasonable expectations in one's mind began with kings and political leaders. The little prince was taught that the whole universe obeys him. Of course, that gradually led thinkers of the world, usually from the highest classes, to question their own existence.
     
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    #13 enfp can be shy, Apr 4, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
  14. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    So you question what is existence not whether or not you exist.
     
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  15. NeverAmI

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    Yes, a definition of existence would be a good start. :D

    Then again, I cannot claim to understand existence nor will I ever in this lifetime, so I instead pursue epistemology, that is, the definition of how we know what we know.

    However, sometimes I do ponder YOUR existence.
     
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    #15 NeverAmI, Apr 4, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
  16. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    what's a "start"?
    j/k
     
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  17. OP
    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    well let's see, if Porn is "you know it when you see it" then would existence be you know it when you live it.

    Why do we need careful definitions?
     
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  18. NeverAmI

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  19. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    but all we know is existence, so there could be no perspective on it. it's not like the atoms which make up our bodies haven't always "existed" in some form.

    also, we need clear definitions in order to avoid misinterpretations & confusion (which is bound to happen anyway when discussing topics like this, but at least it will happen less)
     
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  20. NeverAmI

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    'Porn' is just a concatenation of a nominal symbol (a word: pornography) which has a generally shared definition of media showing people having sex.

    Show porn to someone that doesn't know anything about sex and ask them what it is. Doesn't seem very self-evident to me. We LEARN what sex is.
     
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    #20 NeverAmI, Apr 4, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
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