The Meaning of Lucifer
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Lucifer
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Ummm Lucifer is a reference to the morning star...
You know what I'll just cut paste
Lucifer |ˈloōsəfər|
noun
1 another name for Satan . [ORIGIN: by association with the [son of the morning] (Isa. 14:12), believed by Christian interpreters to be a reference to Satan.
You know what I'll just cut paste
Lucifer |ˈloōsəfər|
noun
1 another name for Satan . [ORIGIN: by association with the [son of the morning] (Isa. 14:12), believed by Christian interpreters to be a reference to Satan.
So, I don't quite fathom the idea of turning the morning star into something evil (if that is the impetus of the Christian mythological directives?) - why to do this? - I am assuming
that Christian thought is mostly thinking of Satan as evil and bad. Is this, do you think
(for any and all of you) the case?
ZenCat
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Here's an answer of sorts, as to the connection between the morning star (the planet venus) came to mean evil.
Lucifer
Lu"ci*fer\, n. [L., bringing light, n., the morning star, fr. lux, lucis, light + ferre to bring.]1. The planet Venus, when appearing as the morning star; -- applied in Isaiah by a metaphor to a king of Babylon. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! how art thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations ! --Is. xiv. 12. Tertullian and Gregory the Great understood this passage of Isaiah in reference to the fall of Satan; in consequence of which the name Lucifer has since been applied to, Satan. --Kitto.
acd
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Well according to you it's mythology.. but the morning star reference means that Lucifer was the highest in the order of angels before he fell/rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. And since he rebelled, well, yes he is thought of in Christian theology as evil.
Who or what is it that says he rebelled? How do stars rebel? or why? - O I am definitely primed for this discussion!
Lucifer
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So Lucifer was like Satan's name before he fell?
ZenCat
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No, it doesn't appear so. It was a name added later, and popularized by several authors. Just one of many of Satan's little nicknames...
Lucifer or lightbringer is really the internal aspect of the individual psyche's that does bring light and illumination to individuating beings. It is something feared by those wanting to be in control over others, and they will often in history make up stories to make it seem like thinking for yourself is somehow evil.
acd
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Apparently. I think Satan means 'adversary'.
Makes sense when it was Lucifer or Satan who tempted Eve with knowledge or enlightenment of good and evil. This is not to say that knowledge is evil at all. It's absolutely necessary in order to have free-will.
Who or what is it that says he rebelled? How do stars rebel? or why? - O I am definitely primed for this discussion!
Since Christian theology comes from the bible, it's the bible that says he rebelled. It says he rebelled because he wanted to be God, or worshipped by the other angels as God is worshipped by them. So.. he tried to lead a rebellion of angels against God and usurp sovereignty.
I don't think when it calls him 'morning star' it literally means he was a star. it's a metaphor. What else do you want to discuss? I'm open to talk. If it's not obvious already from this, I am a Christian, so I enjoy talking about these things.
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KingOfSpades
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I love these types of discussions. From what I know, I think a lot of the story of Lucifer and his fall can be attributed to "paradise lost" written by John Milton. I don't know how much the story of Lucifer rebelling against God and being thrown from Heaven is in the actual books of the Bible per se (but i could be very mistaken on that point!!)
the book of Job treats Satan as one of God's angels...an entity who tests people on behalf of God. This type of adversarial testing quality of Satan is seen again in the new testament when Jesus is tempted in the desert.
I dunno when Satan became classified as "evil" per se...maybe other passages in the Bible say that, I don't know.....
the book of Job treats Satan as one of God's angels...an entity who tests people on behalf of God. This type of adversarial testing quality of Satan is seen again in the new testament when Jesus is tempted in the desert.
I dunno when Satan became classified as "evil" per se...maybe other passages in the Bible say that, I don't know.....
I don't see Christian theology ever allowing this Satan a voice or any Satan at all to even speak, but just a a scapegoat for the writers ( a few- the Bible is a collection of a variety of works and authors of the human kind) to refer to in order to say you should not think for yourself but accept what "we" are telling you, because "we" are "Gods" spokesmen. Which God spoke and appointed them?
ZenCat
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I'm not sure I understand your point, mayflow.
From my perspective (which is, albeit, not a Christian one), I don't really see the issue with there being a God and his opposite (in this case, Satan or Lucifer), especially as I consider them parables. I think the bible, and many religions which don't use the bible, absolutely give Satan a voice, and since there are those who choose to consider Satan/Lucifer as their deity, surely someone is listening to that voice.
Without extremes at either end, how would we ever find balance?
God/Satan
Good/Evil
Light/Darkness
Yin/Yang
From my perspective (which is, albeit, not a Christian one), I don't really see the issue with there being a God and his opposite (in this case, Satan or Lucifer), especially as I consider them parables. I think the bible, and many religions which don't use the bible, absolutely give Satan a voice, and since there are those who choose to consider Satan/Lucifer as their deity, surely someone is listening to that voice.
Without extremes at either end, how would we ever find balance?
God/Satan
Good/Evil
Light/Darkness
Yin/Yang
acd
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Interesting.. it doesn't allow him a voice.. No, it's pretty much narrative about him. I don't know, from what I've studied I don't regard him as a scapegoat. I see him as a necessary being. I don't think people could ever really love God without Satan. There would be no choice.
The God of Judeo-Christianity. Yahweh, I AM, etc.
It's mentioned in Isaiah 14:12.
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
Ezekiel 28:12-19 talks about when Lucifer became Satan, or why and when he rebelled.
28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Sadly enough, I have this book but haven't read it yet! Tell me about it?
KingOfSpades
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Oooh I've only read snippets and was forced to in high school. from what i remember it was pretty good though. just a long epic poem about lucifer rebelling. that line about "better to be a king in hell than a servant in heaven" comes from that. yea it supposedly talks about the creation and adam and eve and describes their marriage and personalities and what not. I think Lucifer is interpretated by some as being a sympathetic character (tragic hero-esqe) but like I said haven't really read it
Some days I consider myself lucky if I read my email lol.
Vagrant
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Lucifer was supposed to have been the most beautiful angel in heaven (thus Morning Star), before he rebelled and was cast out.
Satan has a ton of names -- my particular favorite is Abaddon, (Hebrew אבדון Avaddon, Greek Apollyon, Latin Exterminans) meaning "The Destroyer."
The more accurate quote:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
Satan has a ton of names -- my particular favorite is Abaddon, (Hebrew אבדון Avaddon, Greek Apollyon, Latin Exterminans) meaning "The Destroyer."
The more accurate quote:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
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alcyone
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Hmmm...Light-bringer...the one who 'enlightened' Adam and Eve against the creators wishes....
Draws an intriguing parallel to the much older story of the titan Prometheus and how he gave fire to mankind against the wishes of the Olympian Gods.....
And how he was eternally punished for his action by Zeus......
Another example of Ancient Christianity borrowing storylines from older civilizations in order to give their newly created religion authenticity hmmm ???
*waits for the hornets to emerge from the kicked nest*
Draws an intriguing parallel to the much older story of the titan Prometheus and how he gave fire to mankind against the wishes of the Olympian Gods.....
And how he was eternally punished for his action by Zeus......
Another example of Ancient Christianity borrowing storylines from older civilizations in order to give their newly created religion authenticity hmmm ???
*waits for the hornets to emerge from the kicked nest*
HAHAHA yea I won't be able to efficiently counter your statement because I know where are quite a number of similarities, so I'll just laugh and cry.
You know, there is something about this whole "fallen star" theme that always intrigues me. To some extent I think we are all sort of in this same "fallen star" boat or category together. It's like we are going through a process of being perfect, falling from perfection, working and studying to regain perfection, and becoming even better than the original perfection because now we can survive in hell, and we can have an ego but not be dominated by the ego but instead integrate it into the whole of each of us individually and into the whole of the species and into the all of everything. This is where the light-bringer starts to make sense to me. It's a necessary aspect of the psyche to help us deal with perceived adversities and mature from them rather than give in or be overwhelmed by them. The problem I see in the Lucifer story is that he becomes over-absorbed in his (or her) own ego and loses therefore the wholeness of beingness - (loses touch with the internal god aspect within.)