The INFJ Super 'Ti' Support Thread

[aerosol]

Fe is more than just hugging people and showing emotion, Fe is analyzing and categorizing the world in regards to the collective feeling of the group. On the other hand, Ti is analyzing and categorizing the world from a detached, internal criteria.

You are not Fe heavy. You are being impinged by your Fe for validation, because it is your auxiliary function and you are more likely ignoring it. People who are Fe-heavy tend to judge the external world with the external criteria in mind, whereas you are judging the world from a very fixed, internal criteria, which comes from Ti.

Your frustration and aggression come from inferior Se, as well as Ti creating a world inside your Ni that is far too detached from reality (as they are both introverted functions). Your Fe feels validated as you keep telling yourself that your vision is for the good of humanity, and that you mean to help others, even though you aren't judging things according to the objective criteria. So you feel anger and resentment towards the world, because the world is unable or unwilling to calibrate according to your vision (Ni) of how things should be... because in your mind, it makes perfect sense.

(I'm still researching these things, so I might contradict somethings I said before, sometimes. Don't hold that against me.)

Wow. This is very good and makes a lot of sense. Told you you're smart! I'm gonna rep this for sure.

I think I need to learn more and stop being so simplistic.
Fe = loving others
Ti = thinking a lot
Hah. NO. People have been letting me know that there is more to it than that.

But, one thing... I am very guided by my own emotions. I always have a rational for my emotions, and I could justify my emotions at anytime, so I guess that's Ti helping. But yeah, emotions... I have a lot of them. I just feel that this should make me Fe heavy? Where else is that coming from?

 

[Arsal]

But, one thing... I am very guided by my own emotions. I always have a rational for my emotions, and I could justify my emotions at anytime, so I guess that's Ti helping. But yeah, emotions... I have a lot of them. I just feel that this should make me Fe heavy? Where else is that coming from?

Doesn't relate to cognitive functions. Everybody has emotions.

F and T are Judging functions. They are used to pass judgment and differentiate between right and wrong. "Fe-heavy" person would make judgments according to what makes the group (that they belong to) the happiest. "Ti-heavy" person would make judgments according to what makes most sense to them.

As an INFJ, you are going to modulate between both often, and this is essential for neutrality. But a healthy INFJ would use Fe slightly more than Ti.

INTPs can be emo. INFPs can be incredibly cold. ESTJs can be very emotionally driven. Emotions don't tie into MBTI as linearly as that. One thing though, F-types would be more comfortable showing emotion than T-types. The higher your feeling function is in the cognitive hierarchy, the more likely you are to show it. But that's about it. (There's more to it, but this is enough derailment as it is. )

 

[This]

Well I tend to make business decisions with Ti but am also a deeply feeling and empathetic person, I usually test INTJ I'm in a "working mind" but test "INFJ" in a casual mind. I felt I related a lot with INTJs but couldn't relate to the coldness part, and I hate math and numbers although game theory is interesting to me because it makes those numbers applicable to something.

 

[aerosol]

As an INFJ, you are going to modulate between both often, and this is essential for neutrality. But a healthy INFJ would use Fe slightly more than Ti.

So you're basically saying I'm unhealthy, right?

I'm learning every day. Thanks for clearing up that emotions don't have anything to do with functions.

 

[Arsal]

So you're basically saying I'm unhealthy, right?

Umm relatively. INFJs need validation for their Ni and Fe, because that's how they are naturally wired. When they don't get validation for Fe, they switch to Ti. This is necessary in short intervals as it helps us rethink our strategies. But a prolonged association with Ti causes increased stress, and possibly neurosis.

I'm basing this off of your descriptions of yourself, though.

 

[aerosol]

Umm relatively. INFJs need validation for their Ni and Fe, because that's how they are naturally wired. When they don't get validation for Fe, they switch to Ti. This is necessary in short intervals as it helps us rethink our strategies. But a prolonged association with Ti causes increased stress, and possibly neurosis.

I'm basing this off of your descriptions of yourself, though.

You're spot on.

 

[cazandria]

Here's another INFJ with highly developed Ti. In fact, I used to think I was an INTJ, as I highly value thought and logic, but after some exploring and self discovery finally came to the conclusion that I am truly an INFJ. Hello to all! *Raises her chai into the air* How do you deal with your highly developed Ti?

 

[Morgain]

It's actually more often a case of undeveloped Fe or ignored Fe for the most from what I have seen for INFJ's. Not always of course. I just see properly developed Ti as one that works well with Fe, and is able to control and regulate Fe. Further one in which Fe can regulate Ti as well. Each pair of functions needs some sort of balance in order to function. In most cases when an INFJ says they care about humanity but they hate people and social interactions (and further don't get them), I am inclined to think their Fe is squashed improperly or is just undeveloped.



It's actually pretty common from what I have seen.

Also, disregard for psychics, fluffy unicorn stuff, etc. really has little to none to do with with MBTI as well.

indeed. The most harmonious way to function is using your dominant function backed up by the secondary. But most of the times it needs a bit effort to use your secondary since it is the complete oposite of the dominant and therefore feels a bit strange. If the secondary function doesn't do its job, the tertiary function will take over. It is more easy to use since it has the same orientation as the dominant( introverted in case of INFJ). But when you use Ni and Ti together you miss an extraverted function and therefore don't act very healty. This is called the dominant-tertiary loop.

If you want to be an harmonious INFJ then you should work on your secondary function.

This is according to Lenore and it works for me. I find myself often in a FiSi loop which is dragging me down in a negative spiral of reliving past emotions. Only when I do the effort of using Ne and go in the world again, do I feel balanced again.

 

[Orion]

indeed. The most harmonious way to function is using your dominant function backed up by the secondary. But most of the times it needs a bit effort to use your secondary since it is the complete oposite of the dominant and therefore feels a bit strange. If the secondary function doesn't do its job, the tertiary function will take over. It is more easy to use since it has the same orientation as the dominant( introverted in case of INFJ). But when you use Ni and Ti together you miss an extraverted function and therefore don't act very healty. This is called the dominant-tertiary loop.

This is according to Lenore and it works for me.

While I agree with you and Thomson, she makes it out as if your Dominant and Auxiliary can just be attached and dis-attached at will. As far as I'm concerned the Dominant and Auxiliary are intrinsically linked otherwise no one would have a personality in the first place and the point of type is redundant.

I think the role of Ti is slightly overemphasised. It's more down to maladjusted Fe then compensating Ti- for most people anyway.

What Indigo was getting at, was that it's not so much that you don't use your Fe, far from it, but that's it's used in a underdeveloped way. Think about, if an INFJ says and spends their time thinking about hating people, then that must come from a motivation residing in their need for good relationships. It's just that they can't/struggle with them. This is more down to personal experience and how the individual's Ni+Fe manifests, then development of Ti (although it still has a big influence).

Take INTP's who claims that s/he is apathetic or doesn't care about people. They only say that because it's easy for them to not form an emotional attachment to their ideas about people and society at large. In fact, they are more likely amused by the retardation in general humanity that is on offer to scoff at. An INFJs maladjusted and ill favoured response to people more down to the emotional hurt they have felt through bad experiences and conditioned patterns of thoughts that lead them to believe that people suck and develop a neurosis for it. That is a product of Fe not Ti.

The difference I suppose, is between INFJs who have underdeveloped Fe and INFJs who choose to live life with a stronger Ti by choice. The Fe malnourished INFJ is probably less likely to lean on Ti in order to be productive. They don't use it because "oh it's more efficient for my unconscious to operate if i just reject Fe so I'll use Ti instead." They just sink further until they become intune with their Fe because that's what got them there in the first place! And they subconsciously know- it's just so hard to climb that Fe ladder again.

Whereas INFJs who receive positive stimulus from the use of their Ti in a healthy manner are probably going to be healthy INFJs with strong Ti.

 

[mkt002]

I find this conversation interesting. My husband is an INFJ with a very strong Ti function. He has suppressed his Fe for so long that he is always negative, angry, full of hatred. He has even said, and I quote, "I am the smartest person in the world. Everyone else is stupid and ignorant, and I shouldn't have to cater to their stupidity." He is so angry with the world, his life, his career (he's a Ph.d. Chemist) that he can't get out of the cycle.

I'd like to know how to help him out of this. I've told him to pay more attention to his Fe, but I think that most of the other people in his life have discouraged him doing that because he gets, not only intense, but on the verge of violence becuase of the passions he shows when expressing himself. He is one of the smartest people I have ever known. His brain is amazing. He's very analytical, and can argue logic like no one's business. He really should've been a lawyer or something. His intellegence is what drew me to him in the beginning. Now I'm thinking it's his curse as well. If he can logically rationalize something away - that's it. No going back. How can I logically convince him that he needs to feel things through instead of just dismissing them.

 

[aerosol]

haha, my old posts here make me cringe. i was so clueless about functions.

now that i know more, i don't think i'm particularly Ti heavy.

 

[jrun83]

"What's wrong?" or "Why are you so unhappy?" when you are lost in positive, constructive thought ("Nothing's wrong, dammit! It's just that my Ti disengages my Fe!").

This made me lol so hard. A classmate of mine approached me in this manner once not too long ago and that was what ran through my head. All the posts on this thread make so much sense to me. I feel like I used a lot of my F while growing up, but after a lot of hurt/rejection and stuff I started to use less of it. I think I went a really long time without shedding a tear. And watching people cry made me feel weird. When I dated an INTJ it seemed like my "T" and "F" started to come back into balance. It's almost like he created a safe atmosphere where I could just develop the "T" and not feel so weird about it.

I suppress my "F" when I'm in school just to protect myself. I've learned in college that this can lead to emotional overload when I allow so many people "in". Even though that sounds kind of odd. And then when I go home at night I let the F out.

I'm still learning how to balance the two.

 

[VH]

This article might be fascinating for those of you who are interested in the Ni + Ti phenomenon.

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

While the OP discusses extreme versions (i.e. psychological disorders) of cognitive function loops, the thread opens up to how these loops are applied in most cases.

The gist of the Ni + Ti loop is

ISTP/INFJ: Ti/Ni or Ni/Ti - They live in their own abstract worlds, constantly second-guessing themselves as Ti poses a framework for a problem and Ni shoots it down as too definitionally precise. Without enough external input, these two functions will dream up all sorts of elaborate systems and implications for them, only to repeat their own self-defeating behavior, never bothering to emphasize putting any of its intense ideas into practice. If Se/Fe were doing its job, the user would recognize the value of connecting with others and of paying attention to their needs, preferences, habits and appearances.

Do any of you experience strong Fe + Se moments? I certainly do. It is assumed that those who dwell in any given loop occasionally have 'backlash' moments where the suppressed functions surface.

ESTP/ENFJ: Se/Fe or Fe/Se- This often results in excessive sensitivity to perceived "rudeness" or failure to respect the user's preferred cultural custom or sense of how things should be (Fe), combined with tertiary Se responding aggressively through attempts at intimidation. (gives a surface appearance of respecting the cultural standards of negotiation, but implies that refusal to accept this "offer" would be quite unpleasant for the recipient)

 

[Kmal]

reminds me of this

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=3115

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=7016

 

[grt$5vb]

Count me in, and I hope it's just a phase, though I can single really kind people out & zero in on only them to pour out all my Fe, while cussing everyone else under my breath.

 

[lantern]

I thought I was INTJ, but I realised I was just repressing Fe functions. So, I just share them now, with the right people. It's painful as hell and I know it sounds forced sometimes, but I've decided that, for example, when people tell me about their day I should say "oh, wow, gee, awesome" in the conversation. Which I genuinely feel, but expressing it sounds so lame. Oh well.

Can't I just feel connected to people and not say it? Hahha I guess not...

 

[e-vagrant]

I don't agree that being Ti-heavy indicates an unhealthy negligence of Fe.

Just as a personal example -- I am what I believe to be a Ti-heavy INFJ. And I'm a scientist. In general, my greatest satisfaction and sense of accomplishment in life are derived from understanding and explaining things. I'm driven by curiosity more than altruism and seek knowledge for the sake of understanding the world, which is why I "blend in" pretty naturally with INTPs.

I do not believe that not having a strong desire to better the world indicates "pathology" in an INFJ. For example, perhaps the person directs that energy elsewhere. It is possible for a "healthy" INFJ to express Fe in their personal relationships, and strive for harmony in those contexts, while not being driven by it in the grander scheme of things. I personally am driven primarily by a passion for knowledge rather than a passion for social justice.

Fe feels unnatural to me outside of personal relationships, but comes very naturally in contexts where it is relevant and valuable (personal relationships). And I think this makes perfect sense -- in addition to being perfectly healthy. The prioritization of knowledge above altruism indicates a preference for Ti over Fe, but I don't believe that this necessitates the repression Fe.

 

[e-vagrant]

oh. addendum regarding Fe and Ti:
a person's level of general social introversion probably has some impact on the strengths of Fe and Ti. This hypothesis is based on myself (and myself alone, so take it with a grain of salt), but here is why I believe this: someone who is introverted to an extreme may be wont to develop and exercise Ti more (by way of withdrawing into themselves and focusing their energy on personal projects), while a person who is less introverted may be wont to develop and exercise Fe more (they are more open to it). Makes sense, yes? So a high level of introversion would make an INFJ more Ti-oriented, not due to lacking opportunities to seek Fe-conducive activities, but due to being genuinely less interested in seeking Fe-conducive activities in the first place.

if this hypothesis is correct to any extent, then it is general introversion and Fe which oppose each other in the INFJ, not Ti and Fe directly. one of the implications of this is that: infrequently-used Fe =/= willfully suppressed Fe.

 

[Mogura]

Now that you mention it, I notice that I do tend to become more socially introverted when the Ti starts to kick up. When I am focused on something (work, project, Internet, good book, etc.), I really don't like to be interrupted, bothered, or have to deal with social niceties (God, can't people deduce that I am busy from my appearing to be busy?). But I am a pretty social and outgoing person (pour on the Fe!) in the proper social contexts (getting a drink with friends, running into acquaintances on the street, etc.)

 

[Broken705]

Another interesting thread that I should have read before.

I think I would try to find a way for Fe/Ti to work more efficiently, if I could ever stop questioning my type.